The Mozart Thread

Posted by: Tam on 22 February 2006

To quote Tom Lehrer "It's a sobering thought that by the time Mozart was my age he'd been dead for three years." I know how he felt, though I not yet quite old enough to have outlived him, I did nearly choke on whatever it was I was drinking when I listened to the first symphony (K16) for the first time whilst reading in the booklet that he was but 8 years old when he wrote it.

Anyway, given it's the anniversary year, and we don't seem to have had a huge amount of Mozart (well, apart for Ian's thread), I thought I might try and alter that by mentioning some of my favourite works and interpreters.

We'll start with the concerti. I have a soft spot for the horn concerti which were, I think, the first mozart concerti that I ever owned. I should admit that I came to them via the the Flanders and Swan song which uses the finale from the K495. I have two recordings, the Koster/Tafelmusik/Weil reading and the Orpheus Chamber Orchestra and I think my preference is probably for the latter. I'm also rather fond of the clarinet concerto, though I only have the Orpheus's recording and wonder whether there are better out there.

Of course, no mention of the Mozart concerti would be complete without turning to the piano, particularly when I'm writing the thread, as I find the piano somehow the most satisfying instrument in a concerto. That said, my relationship with Mozart's didn't get off to a terribly good start. Following the penguin guide, I decided that I couldn't go wrong by buying Perahia's cycle (their rosettes having never steered me wrong in the past). That said, my only previous encounter with Perahia had been dreadful Edinburgh festival concert with the Academy of St Martin in the Fields where he proved (for me) why you shouldn't use a piano in a brandenburg concerto and that if, as a conductor, you're going to sing along with the music, you could at least do it in tune. But I digress. It's not that the Perahia cycle is bad, more I think that I had terribly high hopes for it and, as a result, it proved to be something of letdown and just left me a little unmoved much of the time. That said, I'm currently engaged in surveying all my Mozart piano concerti to decide which are going on my ipod (upon which space is fast becoming a premium) and his 4th and 5th have made it, so he isn't all bad. On of my favourites, though, technically not by Mozart, like all the first four, is the 2nd concerto (K39) from which I find the middle movement painfully beautiful, and Barenboim's reading with ECO particularly fine. Indeed, I would commend the whole of Barenboim's cycle, and indeed his latter, and much more refined (which has both its pros and cons) with the BPO, both of which can be had for an absolute song. Indeed, the Berlin cycle also has a rather wonderful bonus DVD with the concerti for two and 3 pianos with Solti and Schiff. Mozart's first really great piano concerto is probably the 9th (the Jeunehomme), which was recently featured on radio 3s building a library. There is rather fine mono account (though I don't know if it's available separately) with Kempff/Munchinger and the Stuttgarter Kammerorchester. Of more recent accounts Barenboim's with the BPO is rather fine, though I'm keenly awaiting the arrival of the Brendel/Mackerras/SCO version which I have on order. This latter team has so far done four discs, and I think, sadly, no more are planned, and I was much impressed when I saw the concert that followed the recording of their last effort (numbers 12 and 17). So far, however, I have only got their 20 and 24, both of which are very fine indeed. I have, somewhat deliberately, missed out a great many fine concerti, this is mainly because I want to steer clear of talking about the ones that I don't know so well, hopefully others will fill in.

I used to think that once you got below about about 25, the symphonies were rather a pale shadow of the later ones (indeed, there was recently a thread along those lines over on the radio 3 boards). Then, a few years ago, I picked up the Mackerras, Prague Chamber Orchestra complete cycle (on Telarc, most of which is, I think, available as individual discs too). - Incidentally, like most of my classical threads, with the exception of my Ring cycle and Mahler ones, this one is probably going to be a little heavy on Mackerras - Anyway, the vitality with which they play the early works is really quite something, indeed, the first few discs are among the most recommendable in the entire cycle, and now some of my favourite listening. That's not to detract from the later symphonies, which he plays very well too, but just that they lack something of the magic he brings to the youngest ones. I'm not going to mention all the fine symphonies, that would take too long and I will leave my glaring omissions to others to fill in (though I do feel a little bad skipping over 34-36). Instead, the only other ones I shall mention are two of my favourites, and the first two Mozart symphonies I ever owned: 40 and 41, the latter being one of my favourite symphonies of all time. There are doubtless many fine recordings of these two (including the rather nice Erich Kleiber/LPO 40th that I'm listening to as I write this) but I haven't heard anything, at least in the Jupiter, that touches Bernstein's account with the VPO.

A number of times and on a number of threads, Uchida's survey of Mozart's piano work has been mentioned and, to be honest, I don't think there is much to add to what has already been written. This is superb playing and should really be on every self-respecting Mozartian's shelf. I'll only point out my favourite moment, which comes in the Turkish March finale of the K331 sonata which features some of the most beautiful piano playing anywhere on disc and would almost certainly make it with me to my desert island. That said, the Solomon readings of the 331 and 576 (which couple with his unsurpassed Beethoven 5th concerto on Testament) are not bad.

Lastly I'll turn to opera. I'm about to enjoy Mackerras's (there I go again Winker) new release of La Clemenza di Tito, which was recorded just prior to a rather fine concert performance at the Edinburgh festival last summer and marks the latest instalment of his SCO cycle which has now jumped labels for the second time (by my count: it started on Telarc, went to EMI for Idomeneo, and this new issue comes from DG with Magdelena Kozena and Rainer Trost). That said, Clemenza is hardly Mozart's finest opera, even in the hands of Sir Charles. Le Nozze di Figaro on the other hand arguable is. Indeed it is one of my favourite operas and I have three recordings (none of which, you will doubtless be pleased to read is by Mackerras....yet). Part of the reason for my soft spot for Figaro stems from the fact that the Giulini/Philharmonia recording with Taddei and Schwarzkopf was the first opera I owned and I still prefer this recording above all other that I've heard. That said, purists may well object because in order to get it onto two discs Marcellina and Basilio's arias from act 4 have been lost. However, for my money that helps solve a problem in Figaro which is that most of the best music is in the first half, and the pace can sag accordingly. The only complete reading I have is Boehm with the likes of Prey, Mathis and Fischer-Dieskau, which in fact, only gets better as the opera progresses (after something of a shaky, and, to my ears, poorly recorded start). Still, it doesn't quite do it for me in the way Giulini does. The other account I have, which I can thoroughly recommend is Gui's mid 50s Glyndebourne account (which I believe is the favourite of Gramophone's good CD guide). I only purchased it because it's two sans libretto discs (cut in the same manner as Giulini) were on sale for just £6 in HMV the other day, and it would have been rude to pass them up (even when not on sale I think it only goes for around a ten pounds). This is a very fine account too, and though sound is a little 'early stereo' it is remarkably good for its time. If you're new to Figaro and/or on a budget (or even if you're not) it's well worth picking up. At this point I should probably leave a little space so that Graham can demand to know why I haven't yet tried Erich Kleiber's account - it's on my list! The only other operas I'll mention are Don Giovanni, which I have in the form of Giulini's very fine account, though I wonder whether it's a opera that really needs to be seen as well as heard, since it doesn't quite seem to capture the wit and sparkle of the Opera North production I saw last year. Lastly, there is the Magic Flute, I only have one recording, and it comes from Charles Mackerras (who else) and the LPO and is the only account in English and is very fine indeed.

I have doubtless missed many great works and interpreters off this list and, there was a certain degree of intent in that direction, the hope being that others will want to fill in the awful gaps my shameless Mackerras bias may have left. So, the floor is open!

regards, Tam
Posted on: 29 March 2006 by Tam
quote:
Originally posted by graham55:
I've given recommendations for the String Quartets and the Quintets above. Do try to hear them. Among Mozart's greatest works, in my view. Oh, and there's a very fine recording of Mozart's greatest Quintets, K515 and K516 by the Allegris on Naim's very own label.


Thanks for those.

Out of interest do you (or, for that matter anyone else) know the Amadeus QT's stereo cycle (I think dating from the 60s), I saw it half-price in my local cd shop the other day and was more than a little tempted.

regards, Tam
Posted on: 29 March 2006 by graham55
Tam

I don't know the Amadeus cycle, although I recall that Gramophone and Penguin always used to prefer the Quartetto Italiano for the complete set.

That said, the consensus is that you really need only the mature quartets, Nos 14 to 23. I've just had a quick look on www.amazon.de, and see that new copies of the Alban Berg's 4CD Teldec set are available at around the €18 mark (ex postage). I'd pile in, if I were you!

Graham
Posted on: 29 March 2006 by Cosmoliu
One more time:

Posted on: 29 March 2006 by Cosmoliu
OK, Graham. I'm with you.

Norman
Posted on: 29 March 2006 by Tam
quote:
Originally posted by Cosmoliu:
One more time:





Ah, I see what it is, you haven't got the address right. When you click to see a larger image, you're just getting another page that has the image on it, not the image itself. But Graham is right, it's easier not to bother! Winker

regards, Tam
Posted on: 29 March 2006 by Cosmoliu
Tam,

So where did you go to grab the correct URL?

Norman
Posted on: 29 March 2006 by Tam
I right-clicked on the photo and selected 'copy image address to clipboard'. That said, it may be different on a pc.

regards, Tam
Posted on: 29 March 2006 by Cosmoliu
No such choice on PC. The closest I get is "Open Link" and "Open Link in New Window", both of which I have tried. I give up. Probably just as well, as access to a new toy would likely only be a distraction.

Thanks Tam,

Norman
Posted on: 30 March 2006 by Tam
quote:
Originally posted by Cosmoliu:
Probably just as well, as access to a new toy would likely only be a distraction.

Thanks Tam,

Norman


True. You're welcome. Solution - just listen to some music instead.


So, to get back on topic, does nobody else have any thoughts on direction from the piano, versus having a conductor, as I mentioned in my post on the Uchida concerto series.

regards, Tam
Posted on: 30 March 2006 by Cosmoliu
quote:
Originally posted by Tam:

So, to get back on topic, does nobody else have any thoughts on direction from the piano, versus having a conductor, as I mentioned in my post on the Uchida concerto series.

regards, Tam


Hi Tam,

Sorry, no opinion on directing from the piano, but the A-S Mutter discs you so kindly helped to post above are directed by her. If memory serves, she also conducted the Trondheim Players for her recent Four Seasons release. It seems to work, particularly since there is no doubt as to who's interpretation is being preserved for posterity. Perhaps she has been taking conducting master's classes from her spouse?

Norman
Posted on: 30 March 2006 by Tam
Is that Previn? I never can remember.

I may have to investigate these discs, since I lack any recordings of the Mozart violin concertos (just another of the many gaping gaps in my library).

Of course, the lack of a conductor isn't always fatal, I'm a big fan of the various recordings of the Orpheus chamber orchestra that I have and they do without (although, they have made a profession of so doing, so that may help). Also, I was recently at an SCO concert where they played Haydn 101 very nicely with no conductor. Of course, having said that, their playing was no match for the more recent concert I saw them give where Mackerras conducted symphony 96, so....

regards, Tam
Posted on: 30 March 2006 by Cosmoliu
Yes, that would be Andre Previn. Lucky fellow. If you do not already have the violin concertos (any of them?) then you would be hard pressed to do significantly better than this set. It also includes the Sinfonia Concertante for violin and viola, which I like rather well.

Norman
Posted on: 30 March 2006 by Tam
I have the other sinfonia concertante (KV 297b, for oboe, clarinet, bassoon and horn) but not that one. There is a wonderful recording of the 297b with Barenboim conducting his West-Eastern Divan Orchestra from their recent Ramallah concert (also included is a very good Beethoven 5th). I have a particularly soft spot for it since they did an almost identical programme in Edinburgh last summer (all that's missing from the disc is the Tristan prelude we got as an overture).

I shall keep my eyes open for the Mutter discs.

regards, Tam
Posted on: 31 March 2006 by graham55
Tam

Many would advise you to steer clear of the Mutter set and acquire Arthur Grumiaux's set, with Colin Davis.

Graham
Posted on: 31 March 2006 by u5227470736789439
Dear Tam, and Graham,

I am not awake! Yes, I agree that the Grumiaux set makes a splendid first recomendation. It also contains a splendid performance of the Symphonia Concertante for Violin and Viola, and the accompaniments are unusually accute as well from Colin Davis and the LSO is splendid, fairly intimate, Philips recordings. These performances have everything, and then one might then add another contrasted version. But I I think Grumiaux holds the palm here, as a starting point.

All the best from Fredrik
Posted on: 31 March 2006 by Tam
quote:
Originally posted by Fredrik_Fiske:
I am not awake!


I know the feeling Winker

Thanks, and Graham, for the recommendation. Would that be the same Grumiaux as I have doing the string trios on my set of Schubert trios (with the Beaux Arts doing the piano trios)?

Would be interested to hear either of your views on piano concertos led from the piano versus a conductor.

regards, Tam
Posted on: 31 March 2006 by u5227470736789439
Dear Tam,

Arthur Grumiaux is the musician, of whom I speak!

As for conductorless keyboard concerto prformances, this really only applies to Bach and Mozart (and Haydn, of course), but even the pioneers of this in modern times such as Edwin Fischer performend them both with and without a conductor. The important thing with a conductor is that he must provide accompaniment rather than impose his reading. It is the soloist position to be the motivaring force, so the divide between the two styles may not be that wide, or it can be ruinously so.

I will post later a list of my favourite conductorless performances, and perhaps contrast these with some fine efforts with a conductor.

All the best from Fredrik
Posted on: 31 March 2006 by Tam
Of course you are quite right about the role of the conductor being that of the accompanist - one of the things that makes the Solti/Ashkenazy Beethoven concertos so 'interesting' is that he often treads all over Ashkenazy. I think this is one of the reasons Mackerras/Brendel do so wall, in that he is an extremely good accompanist. I was struck in the concert performance of Clemenza just how well he supported Kozena (it was almost as if he were doing so on a piano in some of the arias, so perfectly was he able to get the volume and tempo right around her).

I was recently at a terrible performance of the Emperor with the London Mozart Players, I cannot remember the conductor of the pianist, but each was playing a totally different interpretation of the piece.

I look forward to you list.

regards, Tam
Posted on: 31 March 2006 by u5227470736789439
Of the great conductors, it is always interesting to note, who, amongst them, made grand accompanists; Furtwangler, Boult, Barbirolli, Klemperer spring quickly to mind though there are many others, and it is interesting that none of these, named, ever remained totally satisfied with their symphonic readings, but always strove for deeper readings which the years.

I would say that in my opinion it is the mark of a great conductor-artist-musician that they are also great accompanists. Those who can only see one way with the music are less illuminating and perhaps less significant artists! On Solti, well he was at Covent Garden while a good bass playing friend was in the orchestra. He was not considered a great musician by the band, as he had no idea how to get the band to play down to the singer's (solitary human voice versus 120 players in the pit!) dynamic! He in fact increased the overal volume of sound during his tenure at the House. Not clever I would think!


I'll do that post this evening. Fredrik
Posted on: 10 April 2006 by Tam
I thought I would bring this thread back up again to talk about two recordings.

First up is Mozart's 39th symphony, by Furtwangler and the BPO (thanks to Fredrik for this excellent recommendation). Up until now, the vast majority of my Mozart symphonies have been my complete cycle by Mackerras so Furtwangler's approach represents something rather different. To begin with the sound is poor (this is a recording from the early 40s) but after about a minute or so the music is so wonderful that all such concerns simply vanish. This is a great account, full of energy and vitality and, in fact, by the time one reaches the end the interpretations have not been a million miles apart in terms of tempi. I recommend this recording to everyone (and am looking forward to the rest of the box which includes some Beethoven and a Schubert 9).

The second disc is the Civil/Klemperer/Philharmonia horn concertos (thankyou Kevin and Fredrik). Up until now my two recordings have been the Orpheus Chamber Orchestra and Koster/Weil/Tafelmusik, the latter on period instruments. Obviously both are pretty 'modern' or rather HIP approaches so the Civil comes as something of a contrast. And, as in some ways for the first few bars I wasn't convinced (as is often the case when you hear something you're used to hearing done differently. However, by the time the second movement had begun such doubts had vanished. There is a subtle beauty to these readings that I don't think is there in my later accounts and suffice it to say I very much enjoyed these. Indeed, as a modern instrument account I am tempted to place it above the Orpheus (though the two are so different it is difficult to compare). That only leaves the question of where the period reading fits in. I am rather fond of the sound of the period horn (I recently attended a concert of the post-horn serenade where a period instrument was used to wonderful effect and I much prefer the sound of a Beethoven symphony with them, though prefer my other instruments modern). As might be expected, it is perhaps a less 'dextrous' instrument, if that is quite the right way to put it, but has a rather special sound. In short I am very fond of all three accounts and wouldn't like to have to pick just one.

regards, Tam

p.s. Dear Fredrik - I would still love to read that list regarding direction from the piano or not.
Posted on: 10 April 2006 by kevj
Tam,

I think that the best natural horn player around is a guy called Tony Halstead. He recorded the Mozart concertos with the Hanover Band on Nimbus several years back. This may be worth a listen for you if you ever see it about. I think he's prbably recorded most of the repertoire somewhere.

I saw him play the Weber concertino live once at St John's Smiths Square. To call his technique prodigious is an understatement. The piece is like one of Weber's clarinet works, fast, fluid and agile. To see Halstead pull it off live on a hand-horn was an experience which will live with me for a while.

Halstead is also a good enough pianist to have recorded sonatas with other soloists on record. Some people are just too talented...

Kevin
Posted on: 10 April 2006 by u5227470736789439
Dear Tam,

Thanks for the reminder. I had sort of forgotten about it but there are some interesting things to note about it, so I will do it, but not this evening!

One of the loveliest Piano Concerto perfomances I know is of the Third and Fourth of Beethoven with Edwin Fischer and the Philharmonia, and Fischer also conducts, literally I think, as the reports are that he would stand up from the piano and do so. Certainly there is nothing limp about the band, and it does all fit together in a very special way.

All the best from Fredrik
Posted on: 12 April 2006 by u5227470736789439
Dear Tam,

I having been thinking quite a lot about this, as it is a fscinating departure, where the keyboard soloist takes command of the band as well, but I found I was somewhat stumped!

The first example I came across was Edwin Fischer with the LPO in Mozart's D Minor Concerto for Piano and Orchestra KV 466 (HMV 1933? and available on Apian, APR, currently) where the thing that struck me straight away was the complete unity of vision. Fischer pioneered this in the twentieth century, and has been followed on by such as Geza Anda, and nowadays I think Perahia ususally directs as well too.

But Fischer was more than content to have a conductor on times, so I guess it is still down to the cconductor being an accompanist of the first quality. Clara Haskil seems never to have wanted to direct and play solo at the same time, so it is just a question of the style of the artist concerned.

Barenboim made a complete cycle of the Mozarts (as did Perahia), but at the same time Barenboim also recorded some the Mozart Concertos with Klemperer, so it seems there may even be gains from having a conductor in the chamber-music-like-world of Mozart's Concerti.

It simply would not work technically in the larger scaled (orchestrally) works of Brahms or later Romantic composers, because the co-ordination is no longer quite an issue of listening and fittng in! I doubt if the Emperor Concerto would go well, even, and the Schumann has some very awkward corners for co-ordination, even though the scoring itself is very clear most of the time.

One thing I must emphassis is how fine Edwin Fischer's Mozart performances always are. Though all them are over 50 years old now, they still sound fresh and modern in conception. He was a long way ahead ot his time in his rejection of the heavy Beethovenian approach often applied to Mozart's Piano concertos in the early twentieth century!

All the best from Fredrik
Posted on: 12 April 2006 by Tam
Dear Fredrik,

Thanks for that. I suppose it just comes down to the performers involved then - I must look out for some of those Fischer readings. I think my point was that most of the really compelling readings I've found so far feature a conductor.

It's also interesting that some artists do it both ways, you mention Barenboim, I notice that Uchida (who recorded them with Tate) is currently playing and leading in live concerts with the Cleveland Orchestra, something I would much like to hear (then again, last year she was playing them with Mackerras and the Philharmonia...).

regards, Tam
Posted on: 12 April 2006 by u5227470736789439
Dear Tam,

There are four issues of Concerti with Fischer either directing or accompanied on Apian, APR @ £10 each. If you do a Google search on UK pages of Apian APR you will find the link. It is a pianist's paradise actually, though I can't quite manage the £40 for the four I want!

But they are very special. I knew all of them in their original issues in the School Record Library, and I had the D Minor in a borrowed 78 album for several years. That was my first detailed study of a Mozart Piano Concerto, and I bought the score as well, though even then in the early eighties my sole gramophone was a 1930s HMV portable accoustic, till I saved up enough to get LP replay again! I had nothing otherwise after I left home.

Happy days indeed!!!

Fredrik