Ideas to improve sound without investment of money ?

Posted by: Arye_Gur on 11 February 2001

In another thread here, Mike Hanson tells that he "toe in" his speakers and locate them a feet
away from the wall.

I tried it and it is like a magic. This is an example to an idea that improves sound without demanding money payments.

Maybe other members here have such ideas that they can share with us ?

Arie

Posted on: 11 February 2001 by Alco

Hmm, nice thread, Arie.

Well, I do have some tips (not my own ideas though) that cost very little money.

1. Replacing the cheap (gold)plated jumper-plates
at the back of biwire-speakers with short peaces
of quality cable. (naca5 or anything else)

2. a weird one, but it works...
My Naim-dealer once had a modification on a old
nait-2. He melted some paraffine (yep, candlewax)
and he got it all over the the board at the inside
of the amp, untill ya could hardly see the electronic parts. (sorry, if my English is not correct) When the candlewax was cooled down and
hard again the results were stunning!
More detailed, and a much more relaxed soundstage.
(I do find it a bit spooky to do it myself though)

Well, that about it right now,

C U all,

Greetings,
Alco.

Posted on: 11 February 2001 by Andrew L. Weekes

The things that I check regularly, or when the system is not sounding at it's best have all been talked about before, but there may be others who aren't aware of the so here goes...

Speakers

Ensure stands are bolted together tightly (if not one piece).

Ensure stands and speaker are rigid (unless designed not to be e.g. Intro / Credo)

Ensure plugs / sockets are clean.

Check driver screws are tight.

Equipment stands

Ensure shelves only touch stand where designed (e.g. on my Target rack it's possible for the shelves to contact the rack if not centered within the space available, 'short circuiting' the spikes / rubber feet)

Mains - DISCONNECT FIRST!!

Polish mains plugs with wadding metal polish.

Clean / tighten in-plug fuse holder and terminals.

Occasionally (yearly?) strip back cables to new, clean wire and remake all mains plug connections.

If suitably qualified / confident(!) tighten connections to back of mains sockets but ISOLATE MAINS AT FUSEBOX FIRST

Most Electronics

Unplug and reconnect all interconnects but turn off system first, to prevent damage.

LP12's

Remove outer platter and belt, clean belt with isopropyl alcohol.

Clean inner platter where belt runs, using ispopropyl alcohol, take care not to exert a large sideways force on the main bearing.

Clean inner platter where it mates with outer platter.

Clean motor pulley, as above.

If belt is not stretchy, and seems to have hardened, buy a new one, else clean with isopropyl.

Refit belt, new belts no longer have a smooth or rough side, so you'll need to experiment by trying it each way round for best sound (4 combinations!)

Clean outer platter where it mates with inner platter - refit.

Try mat both ways up.

Make sure TT is level.

Unplug and reconnect cartridge connections (but be careful).

That lot should keep you busy, Arie.

Andy

Andrew L. Weekes
alweekes@audiophile.com

Posted on: 11 February 2001 by ken c

andrew:

quote:
Polish mains plugs with wadding metal polish.

i seem to recall that naim do not recommend we use ANY "substance" to clean plugs -- suggesting instead that pulling the plug in and out (with the system off of course) has a more effective cleaning effect. i think i heard this during the Kontak cleaning fluid craze... naim claims that cleaning substances leave a residues which do more harm that good. i am sure naim will jump in to correct me if i am talking rubbish here...

a lot of your other suggestions i agree with, especially remaking the mains plug connections -- the effect can be very, very pronounced. the advantage with a hydra type power arrangement is that you only redo one plug.

you could of course go to the extreme and just solder the power cable directly to the mains cables into the socket -- obviating the need for the plug -- at which point you are really playing with fire... its against safety regulations, and you remove a layer of protection for your equipment. some time ago in the uk, round plugs were quite popular as they were deemed to make better electrical contact with the corresponding round hole socket. quite some time ago...

enjoy...

ken

Posted on: 11 February 2001 by Ron Toolsie

Here is something I have done to a few speakers and have recommended with great success to several others. The 'Mousepad Mod'...
Tweeters are notorious for having a ringing mounting plate which is also hard and metallic and prone to bounce back interfering reflections in varying degress of phase with the main output. The result is one of perceived harshness and a much-reduced soundstage. In many, if not most speakers this can be scotched by taking a mousepad, cutting it in half, and with an exacto knife cutting a circle that is just a tiny bit wider than the tweeter with a 45degree bevel outwards (i.e. the circle on the side facing the listener is just a tad wider than the side facing the driver. Affix this to the tweeter plate by something like silicone goo and hear how much cleaner, precise and graceful your speakers become. I have tried this with speakers ranging from the original Advents (which are still a little spiky,although much improved) to Tukans (which are GREATLY improved) by this. Some better designed speakers already have something like felt, rubber or cork around the tweeter plate, but there are a suprising amount of even expensive ones that do not. Note well that this should NOT be attempted with the DBL/SBL as the suspended tweeter plate is part of the design and should not be ** with. But on Tukans, Keilidhs, Kabers and many others, go right ahead.

Also, it cannot be overemphasized just how important attention to mains are. While not everybody is in the position to have a 200 A dedicated circuit line with a to-the-center-of-the-earth groundwire, everybody should at least try to power their sundry black boxes from a single AC outlet via an approved power stip. After living here for almost 2 years and powering my many, many boxes from a dedicated cicuit box with 10 duplexes, each with their own 20A fuse, all derived from a common 60A line this weekend I finally used a Wiremould strip, which my dealer had shipped to me last week. Even though this is not as 'he-man' as plugging into many dedicated circuits in parallel, the results are certainly more musical..... crisper, clearer, louder, more extended and even more effortless (less efforty??) than before.
I also need not point out that the speaker/stand/floor interface is crucial. I won't go into the spikes on floor/coins/screws tangent- each speaker/stand/floor combination has a preferred way, but for those of us like me with 'low riding' frame-type stands, it is paramount that only the spikes, and not the frame of the stands impact the carpet. I had noticed that the sound was being pulled to one side on my speakers.... after looking around a bit, I found that the spikes were too low on one side, and a goodly part of the weight was being supported by the frame resting on the carpet, not on the spikes. Raising the spikes to the proper height reversed this and made for a tighter sound too.
One thing is for sure.... a modest well set up system will GREATLY outperform a poorly installed one of far greater degree of sophistication. In fact I have heard a 3.5/Flatcap/92/90/Intro system that have put many, many other installations to shame. Never substitute proper setup with component upgrades- one of the advantages of technically having the dealer install each system and its upgrades is that they will pay attention to not just if the assemblage is working, but how it works. But even the best dealer does not have the time or intimate knowledge of every possible thing that could be less than perfectly optimized in a given installation.

Ron
Dum spiro audio
Dum audio vivo

Posted on: 12 February 2001 by MarkEJ

quote:
some time ago in the uk, round plugs were quite popular as they were deemed to make better electrical contact with the corresponding round hole socket. quite some time ago...

Ken;

I use a home-made (1984) distibution board with 5 sockets, two of which (TT & HiCap) are the 15a round pin type (MK with matching plugs). The best thing about these is the mirror finish on the the plug pins, making them very easy and quick to polish (Duraglit wadding). Originally recommended in the pages of "The Flat Response" "quite some time ago" ), they do seem to have a larger contact area, and no fuses. Obtainable here.

The standard Naim Audio 13a plugs for the UK (Crabtree) seem to be very consistent, and do not lend themselves to cleaning by other methods than the unplug/replug routine. This certainly makes life simpler, and they are also used in the MusicWorks cables/blocks. Using a Crabtree wall socket (easily obtainable at any electrical supply shop) therefore also makes a great deal of sense.

Best;

Mark

Posted on: 12 February 2001 by Andrew L. Weekes

Ken,

quote:
I seem to recall that Naim do not recommend we use ANY "substance" to clean plugs

Normally this is true, owing to the self cleaning action inherent in Naim's choice of connectors.

This doesn't work for mains plugs though, and many mains plugs though come with some kind of protective coating that collects dirt with age (take a look at some of your older mains plugs!).

Cleaning this off with 'Duraglit' or similar works wonders, but the contacts will now oxidise more quickly. Once you start to clean, you have to continue to do it regularly (monthly)

I often use some isopropyl alcohol to ensure all traces of the metal polish are removed after cleaning - it depends on how fussy I'm feeling.

Use of 15A round pin type plugs and sockets, as commented on by Mark is also worthwhile, although it is my belief the primary benefit comes from the absence of a fuse.

The MK 15A sockets I use are easy to dismantle, allowing me to polish the contacts within the socket (!), but the contact area is probably no better on the live and neutral pins than a 13A plug, indeed it could be worse, since the pin is round, yet the contacts within the plug are flat!

They DO sound better though.

Please remember - DISCONNECT FROM MAINS BEFORE ATTEMPTING ANY OF THE ABOVE.

Andy.

Andrew L. Weekes
alweekes@audiophile.com

Posted on: 12 February 2001 by Andrew L. Weekes

Another tip for the list - get all of those other speakers out of the room.

Another big benefit of the move to a NAC112 was remote control - now I could finally remove the speakers from the TV, without inconvenience.

It's a big benefit but the usual caution applies!

Andy.

Andrew L. Weekes
alweekes@audiophile.com

Posted on: 12 February 2001 by Ron Toolsie

quote:
some time ago in the uk, round plugs were quite popular as they were deemed to make better electrical contact with the corresponding round hole socket. quite some time ago..

Decades ago I was lent a 32/160 by a fellow-student friend of mine. It came with round-pin mains plug at a time when everything else in the UK, including the wall receptacle was quadrilateral.I wonder if that was deliberatly done for 'sound' purposes, although in those days nobody paid a hoot to types and qualities of mains plugs. I fortunately had a very cheesy 4-in-1 adaptor that had one set of round pin outlets in it, which I used. If I didnt have one of those around my first naim experience would have been stillborn.

Ron
Dum spiro audio
Dum audio vivo

http://homepages.go.com/~rontoolsie/index1.html

Posted on: 12 February 2001 by MarkEJ

You've got a NAC112?

What did you have before, how is it different, was it a good move, and what do you run it with?

(apologies for topic drift)

Best;

Mark

(an imperfect
forum environment is
better than none)

Posted on: 13 February 2001 by Andrew L. Weekes

Mark,

I do intend to start a thread on the new 5 series kit (I've just bought CD5 / NAC112 / Flatcap 2 / NAP150 & Prefix for my LP12).

I've had it for two weeks now, and the short answer is it's totally bloody fantastic (usual symptoms - lack of sleep etc.). Only another 700 or so LP's and a couple of hundred CD's before the rediscovery comes to an end?

You'll have to wait for the full details though .

Andy.

Andrew L. Weekes
alweekes@audiophile.com

Posted on: 13 February 2001 by Arye_Gur

Andrew,

How is the Prefix ? I concidering buying one to my lp12 ittok.

Arie

Posted on: 13 February 2001 by ken c

arie, if you have a good dealerwho can fit the prefix properly and at the same time make sure your lp12 is finely tuned, then the prefix is a very very good move. i know, because i did it. i had some teething troubles with increased RF but with naims help this was sorted out.

if you have the funds, and you are at the "thinking-about-it-stage" stage, stop thinking, go and buy it.

if you can also get the armageddon at the same time, all the better.

enjoy...

ken

Posted on: 13 February 2001 by ken c

Andrew, Mark, Ron

many thanks all for further insights into mains issues. you know i have always been curious to know if the stuff that a certain duncan(? i believe) has published in hifi news and elsewhere actually works -- i means hs everyone ever tried it?

it should be quite easy for me to change my single double socket (at end of a 30amp spur), but somehoe, i dont really feel like doing it right now -- what i will consider is a better earth -- spike into the garden and all that. anyone done this?? where do you get the special drills to make the hole??

andrew ..the 5 series interest me ... a lot. so look fwd to reading your experiences in a little more detail.

i miss my system sorely now...

enjoy...

ken

Posted on: 13 February 2001 by Arye_Gur

ken,

I'm going to upgrade the flat to HI (with my 72)
and want to use the flat for a prefix.

The one to do it for me is Naim dealer,
properly ? If he has smoe troubles he will fix it with a piece of paper ...

Arie

Posted on: 13 February 2001 by Andrew L. Weekes

Arie,

The Prefix is a big upgrade to the LP12, although I cannot completely seperate it's benefits from the system upgrade as a whole.

It brings the best bits of the best of CD (lower noise floor / stop-start timing etc.) whilst keeping the things I like about analogue (rythmic flow / ease of listening / superb low-level detail retrieval).

FYI I also use an Ittok (LP12, Valhalla, Ittok, Klyde). Usually the arm or PSU is the most logical upgrade, but I needed a phono stage for the NAC112, and didn't want another box (+ the Prefix sounds much better than a Stageline).

Andy.

Andrew L. Weekes
alweekes@audiophile.com

Posted on: 13 February 2001 by Arye_Gur

Andrew ,

Did you compare the 112/150 to 72/140 ?

Arie

Posted on: 13 February 2001 by Arye_Gur

Andrew,

Did you compare the 112/150 to 72/140 ?

Arie

Posted on: 13 February 2001 by John Schmidt

quote:
The 'Mousepad Mod'...
Tweeters are notorious for having a ringing mounting plate .....this can be scotched by taking a mousepad, cutting it in half, and with an exacto knife cutting a circle that is just a tiny bit wider than the tweeter with a 45degree bevel outwards (i.e. the circle on the side facing the listener is just a tad wider than the side facing the driver. Affix this to the tweeter plate by something like silicone goo and hear how much cleaner, precise and graceful your speakers become.

If you don't trust yourself with an exacto knife, you can buy something like this for Cdn$10. Check out http://www.audio-ideas.com/tweaks.html. However, be warned. Your FEPs may be compromised as this tweak is marketed as an "Imager"!

Cheers,

John Schmidt
"90% of everything is crud" - Theodore Sturgeon

Posted on: 13 February 2001 by Ron Toolsie

quote:
Check out http://www.audio-ideas.com/tweaks.html. However, be warned. Your FEPs may be compromised as this tweak is marketed as an "Imager"!

It appears that those 'Imagers' are a 'one size fits all' fix and still allow a significant part of the tweeter plate to remain exposed. I suspect that a custom cut pad may prove superior as this allows only the tweeter radiating surface (dome/cone/whatever) to be exposed. Still, this an inexpensive thing to purchase, and if you like the results then by all means try a more definitive solution. And yes, imageing does improve.

Ron
Dum spiro audio
Dum audio vivo

http://homepages.go.com/~rontoolsie/index1.html

Posted on: 13 February 2001 by Ron Toolsie

quote:
Won't this interfere with the dispersion of the tweeter?

Yes, there is a tad more 'directionality' although not to the beaming extent of ribbon tweeters, and the sweet spot gets a little tighter, but a whole lot sweeter. But even off axis, the reduction of unwanted reflections lends for a cleaner and truer sound. One of my friends initially thought that there was too much HF loss by this mod, but soon enough figured out that the hole he had cut was just a tiny bit too narrow, and widening the diameter by another couple milimeters allowed for the perfect balance. This with a pair of B&W DM6 speakers I think.

Think of this as the photographic equivalent of using a lens hood. By reducing the unwanted off-axis reflections there is a greatly reduced amount of flare and corresponding increase in contrast, but if the lens hood is too narrow (i.e. improperly designed), there will be vignetting. I now use a lens hood even in the absence of direct flare inducing light sources, as I find they essentially always allow the lens to more closely approach its theoretical limits. And the same with tweeter surrounds.

Ron
Dum spiro audio
Dum audio vivo

http://homepages.go.com/~rontoolsie/index1.html