The Naim journey continues.....quickly. Rack is next?

Hutter.

You should also take a look at Hutter which is very neutral - I've never heard it in a system which I didn't like.

Alternatively, if you don't want to compromise, why not build up the Fraim over time? It doesn't look like you need to have 4 shelves immediately or are you thinking of putting your Hicap and Napsc on seperate levels? You could put the Napsc on the floor.

Dave

ian

I presume your buying this sistem new from a dealer so why not get him to lend a couple of racks that you can afford and see how they perform in your home. Your spending a lot on a sistem so it's the dealers job to ensure that your happy with your purchases. Incidentally shouldn't your dealer be delivering it to your home and setting it up anyway?. It's part of the after sales service.

Yours in Music

Syd

Ian,

I sorted my rack problem a few years ago. Over the years I have had Target, Tripod, various home made ones and Mana.

I bought Hutter and the system has never sounded so good. I have never thought about racks since. YMMV.

Bob

Dave J: “Alternatively, if you don't want to compromise, why not build up the Fraim over time?”

Alternatively, why not buying only the levels of Fraim? Then you let make copies of the MDF plates as well as the steel work to have the Bases.

graphoman

Thanks, ALL....

One problem, my dear wife thinks that Hutter looks like.....uh, how do you it in the UK...?.......shite.

To make matters worse, she's in the furniture business and is trying to con me into something that looks petty but is better suited for books and knick knacks.

Hi Ian

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"irrational exuberance"

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What a wonderful phrase!

Good name for a band.

Sorry to be predictable; but Fraim is the way to realise the full potential of your kit. I suppose it's silly money across the pond?

Do it whilst the kit has relatively few boxes - you only need a base and three shelves. Not ideal; but it's a cost effective start.

There is ferrous issue with Mana (or anything similar) which I find characterises the sound with a pumped up, harsh and forward sound (although falsely exciting).

YMMV.

Enjoy.

Ian

The Hutter is a very good rack indeed. Another option which is possibly even better value is Isoblue. This is a fabulous rack, much better sonically than the Quadraspire for not much more money.

I'm not a Mana fan since I couldn't get it to work. However, when it works, it is really quite stunning just how good it is! In my view I would take the Hutter or the Isoblue over it, but if you have a reasonably local dealer, and the other racks don't have local dealers, then the Mana would have to be on your (very short) list.

The standard Quadraspire loses out to all these 'super-racks' in terms of resolution, space, timing and soundstage. Quadraspire make a Reference rack which is similar money to the super-racks. It has found a few supporters here on the forum. Personally I found it quite unmusical - it sounded very artificial, quite clinical - very different to the standard rack, which I preferred. I guess it's still one to consider on that list though.

Regards,
Frank.
All opinions are my own and do not reflect the opinion of any organisations I work for, except where this is stated explicitly.

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To make matters worse, she's in the furniture business and is trying to con me into something that looks petty but is better suited for books and knick knacks.

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Then get something in low-mass and add Neuance shelves.
They solved half of my problems with CDX2.

I see why so much emphasys is paid to racks and supports with Naim gear. Apparently, they react quite drastically to 'em than any other gear I have came acrossed.

I use Quadraspire (Q4 types ) in a secondary system only because it looked good and fit in the space.

Wow what a system!!

IMHO there is no hurry to get a fancy rack. Yes it will improve the sound but, if I were in your position, I wouldn't have a penny more to spend on a rack. Based on what I know now, i'd be willing to compromise, making sure that I adhere to the following main principles:

1. CD player (and as much other equipment as possible) should be on a low density shelf which is acoustically decoupled from the environment. There are a lot of budget ways to do this, and you can create more if you use your imagination. Tennis balls cut in half, ball bearings and nuts, small wads of steel wool, etc.

2. try to get at least a foot of vertical distance between your components, especially the power supplies and preamp.

3. As much as possible, avoid siting the equipment in heavy, acoustically dense furniture cabinets. If forced to do so, go to Home Depot and get some 3/8" plywood shelves cut to size. Glue a same-size piece of 1/2 inch foam core (available at art supply stores) between to pieces of the 3/8 " plywood. Use a heavy mastic glue. With a little ingenuity and some close inspection of the wood molding section at Home Depot you can select something to have cut to size with which to surround your newly made shelf. Buy a can of spray paint (color your choice). Use the bearings/tennis balls/whatever underneath to complete the acoustic decoupling. This is the poor mans solution...

I remember once speaking to a dealer and decrying the fact that, due to household constraints, my cds was sitting directly on top of its power supply, which was directly on top of my 72/hicap and 250. His offhand reply helped me to gain a little perspective on the subject--"Yeah, but I'll bet it still sounds pretty good..."
Markus
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Isoblue - seconded

I didn't realise that it was available in the USA, but I'm with Frank on this one.

An excellent cost effective option. Three friends use it to good effect. Fraim, it ain't; but it produces a very natural, layered, unforced sound.

John

is that an Audio Alchemy DDE with outboard PS4 powersupply I see on that rack?

Rico - SM/Mullet Audio

J.N. -

I have to give a footnote credit for "irrational exhuberance"to our curmudgeon director of the US Federal Reserve, Alan Greenspan.

He used that phrase to characterize the US stock market - and investor behavior - in early 2000. Well, just look what happened after that.....

Cheers,
Ian

J.N.,

Have you got your wee Darlek set to "Stun" or "Exterminate" ?

Where do you get Isoblue in the US??

Ian,

Just a quick note regarding hidden costs on built-up racks.

If you buy a four-tier rack, and then add an XPS to your rig you have to sell up, and buy a five-tier.

Fraim, Isoblue, QS, Hutter are modular. Buy an XPS and you can buy one more level to add to your existing setup.

cheers, Martin

E-mail:- MartinPayne (at) Dial.Pipex.com. Put "Naim" in the title.

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is that an Audio Alchemy DDE with outboard PS4 powersupply I see on that rack?

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Hi Rico - Yes; I believe so, with a Rega transport. This is a friend's system which now has moved many miles away from me, unfortunately.

you will be impressed with the IsoBlue....I have Q4 ,Q4RR, D-wave by Neat, Naim fraim,and IsoBlue and you can not go wrong with the IsoBlue....
From the home of good audio stands........... HI FI FO FUM

[This message was edited by hi fi fo fum on SATURDAY 22 November 2003 at 05:34.]

The Isoble doesn't look well ventilated to me, it is similar to the projek stand I once owned with solid side cheeks, unless you have fan cooling you will find that your amps run a bit hot at high volumes and you can't sustain those volumes for long (less of an issue with new stuff, more of an issue with olive stuff).

The Hutter in my opinion is a good stand but I had problems with levelling my Naim CD player, and it also has a design flaw since you cannot precisely level a CD player or record player in the same way you can wih Mana or Fraim. It also has an overblown bass and top end in my room. The wood is also quite soft and marks easily.

The Mana is very personal taste. It will make your system sound like a Mana system not a Naim system.

regards

Dev -- who has had quadraspire, hutter, mana, audiotech, projekt......

all you have to do is use the bigger spacers for the shelfs if over heating is a worry....

Europroducts Canada is the North America importer for the IsoBlue and is looking for dealers in the US......or talk to Naim Gain I think he will be having some soon

I'd get a six-tier Mana amp rack and be done with it. Keep one shelf open until you get a turntable and when you do pop it on the top shelf and it will be at a nice height for changing records. There's a link to a picture of a six-tier rack on a few Soundstages here to give you an idea of how it will look. The Soundstages are something you can add later to improve everything on the rack.

Best,
John

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The standard Quadraspire loses out to all these 'super-racks' in terms of resolution, space, timing and soundstage. Quadraspire make a Reference rack which is similar money to the super-racks. It has found a few supporters here on the forum. Personally I found it quite unmusical - it sounded very artificial, quite clinical - very different to the standard rack, which I preferred. I guess it's still one to consider on that list though.

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I use QS Ref and I've also heard it sound unnatural and rather clinical with a 102 controlling a 250, powered by a Hi-cap and fronted by a CDX. Swap the 102 for an 82 and the musicality returns.

Get the Naim boxes in a decent state of hierarchical balance and it sounds wonderfully musical to my ears.



Regards,

Steve.

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One problem, my dear wife thinks that Hutter looks like.....uh, how do you it in the UK...?.......shite.

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Depends on taste of course, but have you seen it in person? I find it quite tasteful, understated, simple. The images on the Hutter site are deceptive. They make it seem heavy and imposing. It's not at all.

In my view the hutter is better looking if ordered in the 500mm option. This just fits naim kit nicely. However, I do think the Isoblue is the better value rack. I only use Hutter since I have a very small space for the HiFi and the extra width of the isoblue would have meant moving an (external) wall....

Regards,
Frank.
All opinions are my own and do not reflect the opinion of any organisations I work for, except where this is stated explicitly.

Does anybody know how the Isoblue compares to the old Projekt rack which Naim used to use in around 1998? I have the double width one and it looks v nice but I suspect of only average performance and not enlargeable (though I could, I suppose, place a single Isoblue unit on top of it).