How to get started?

Why don't you convert some of your cds first? Distributed audio does not in itself mea you have to purchase downloads.

The Beresford DAC is a great place to start. For about $200 including shipping you cant go wrong.

I am not exactly following what you are doing with your PS3... or the NAD.

But in any event, take the signal directly from your PC/Mac using a USB-to-toslink converter. Connect that to the DAC, and then to the 122 with a decent RCA-to-DIN cable.



My shopping list for you:


Hardware:
- Beresford DAC ($200)
- Chord Co, Crimson or Crysalis (RCA-to-DIN) ($100)
- M-Audio Transit- USB converter($70)
- Basic Toslink Cable ($20)

For under $400 you are up and running.


Then you will need to consider storage options. If you are PC and have an extra drive slot, get a 1TB internal drive from Seagate (max $200). Or any Seagate external drive. They are very quiet.


Software:
Download Foobar2000 for a player. And rip your CDs with EAC (Exact Audio Copy). Both are available for FREE online.

If you are using Mac, just use Itunes for everything i suppose. OR buy XLD for ripping and use Play (free) as a player.

Guide:

Use this to set-up EAC. Do it once and you never worry again.

http://jiggafellz.isa-geek.net/jiggafellz-step-by-step-...th-exact-audio-copy/

quote:

Originally posted by garyi:
Why don't you convert some of your cds first? Distributed audio does not in itself mea you have to purchase downloads.

Agreed - in my experience you can get quite a significant improvement in sound quality just by ripping your CDs and playing back the ripped file, although the quality of the ripping program and the computer/DAC used for playback are important to get the best results.


Michael

quote:

Originally posted by pcstockton:
The Beresford ...

th-exact-audio-copy

PC,

Not having an computer based music experience, and having read it, the easy guide link you posted has convinced me that the Naim HDX is the only way to go.

If that's the simple set-up guide well........fook me

Colin,

HDX rips are pretty good. ( it's a pro version of EAC is my understanding)

It all figured out and all you have to do is insert a disc.

quote:

Originally posted by kuma:
HDX rips are pretty good. ( it's a pro version of EAC is my understanding)

I thought Naims big thing was that they advertised the employed ripping engine as their own proprietary invention based upon their own research?

EAC, or, any ripping algorithm, is tied to drive performance, including firmware–different drives with the exact same capabilities (DAE drive database) sound completely different. (I'm sure you already got the HDX vs. RipStation demo from your dealer.)

I do not know and cannot explain why this is the case, even with identical data checksums on files–wholly irrational.

Ironically, this is the Achilles' heel of the DS units–in a source-first world, you need to have good rips. The Linn setup leaves this all to chance, sadly, as few PC drives support all of the penchant features shown in the DAE drive database (let alone REALLY sound any good)–and all this excluding the issues surrounding copy-protected discs, which absolutely require custom firmware to (begin the process to) extract the audio.

This was my point with regard to iTunes, and it remains my point with respect to EAC–it is NOT just a plug-and-play activity, you need to tune the performance to get good-sounding rips.

quote:

I do not know and cannot explain why this is the case, even with identical data checksums on files–wholly irrational.

David,

Surely - and I know I'm treading on sensitive ground here - this is one of those moments when the universe may be trying to tell you something. I once read an article about identical twin studies in the New Scientist where the author used the case of two identical twins separated at birth who had both married men named David as a warning against approaching these studies too uncritically. His point was that, since it was obviously absurd to suggest a gene might make women more likely to marry people called David, the other incredible similarites highlighted by such studies might well be only co-incidence.

Similarly, as it is indeed completely irrational for two digitally identical audio files to sound 'completely' different, isn't it much more likely that this perception is a result of a complex interaction of your beliefs/ideas/knowledge/mood etc.?

I remember someone who accumulated a vast pile of Mana, hearing astonishing differences with the addittion of every level, only to put his record player on the floor one day and find no difference at all. He sold the Mana. It still didn't sound any different, but at least he was better off!

I certainly don't imagine this applies to me any less than to anyone else.

David

Just for clarity ...

... we *DO NOT* use EAC or a derivative thereof.

Cheers

Phil

quote:

and all this excluding the issues surrounding copy-protected discs, which absolutely require custom firmware to (begin the process to) extract the audio.

This was my point with regard to iTunes, and it remains my point with respect to EAC–it is NOT just a plug-and-play activity, you need to tune the performance to get good-sounding rips.

I've never had any trouble getting copy proteted audio from CD's with iTunes.

Can you point me to your previous post with respect to ripping ?

Thanks

Peter

quote:

Originally posted by David Dever:
EAC, or, any ripping algorithm, is tied to drive performance, including firmware–different drives with the exact same capabilities (DAE drive database) sound completely different. (I'm sure you already got the HDX vs. RipStation demo from your dealer.)
I do not know and cannot explain why this is the case, even with identical data checksums on files–wholly irrational.
Ironically, this is the Achilles' heel of the DS units–in a source-first world, you need to have good rips. The Linn setup leaves this all to chance, sadly, as few PC drives support all of the penchant features shown in the DAE drive database (let alone REALLY sound any good)–and all this excluding the issues surrounding copy-protected discs, which absolutely require custom firmware to (begin the process to) extract the audio.
This was my point with regard to iTunes, and it remains my point with respect to EAC–it is NOT just a plug-and-play activity, you need to tune the performance to get good-sounding rips.

Dave

The points you raise may have some validity however I have to disagree with you re the Achilles heel comment - and to a certain extent about micro managing the Rips. Theoretically the issues you raise (as well as PC Stockton) regarding rip engine settings make sense HOWEVER, much as you "cannot explain why this is the case", myself, and others, who have demoed cannot explain why "casual rips" using EAC (with Linns canned settings) executed on a generic laptop sound so damn good when played back via the DS. I guess my point is without really doing anything (ie not micromanaging and overcomplicating the Rips) the results have been spectacular - so at the end of the day if one wants to take the easy way out things will work out just fine.

Gregg

I guess this is also similar to the approach that those who are using the Mac/Lavry combination are taking - keeping things simple and uncomplicated (and not micromanaging)- which provides a solution they are happy with.

Gregg

Hey–if you can't hear the difference–enjoy. (I can't make you believe something is there that you're not hearing, nor should I.)

HOWEVER–this is an issue that has come up before, in the context of vinyl replay, with regard to the differences between pressings, record cleaning methods, etc.

And a sanity check is helpful–if two files sound different to you, try listening to them in a different context or environment. We're inductive reasoners by nature–if one cannot hear a difference a second or third time, chances are there isn't one. So I wholly agree with you there.

The other possibility–that the checksums are incorrect–will be examined again later in the day.

...and they were incorrect. (I stand corrected.) The files ARE different.

I had used FileCompare 1.1 on the Mac to generate the MD5 checksums, but it appears that, using a different audio editor, I was able to invert and add the two files together to get a difference signal that I didn't get with the same file added to itself.

Most of the difference lies within the lowest two or three bits. Rips were performed on a Windows PC running XP Pro SP3 using a Plextor PATA CD-ROM drive, which I subsequently mounted into a USB 2.0 housing (no difference) to use with my MacBook Pro. EAC version was 0.99 prebeta 4. iTunes version on both Mac and PC (using the same USB Plextor drive) was 8.0.

Plextor DVD-R drive (PW-800A) was not as good as Plextor CD-ROM drive.

Now, back into turning lead into gold...

quote:

Originally posted by Colin Lorenson:

quote:

Originally posted by pcstockton:
The Beresford ...

th-exact-audio-copy

PC,

Not having an computer based music experience, and having read it, the easy guide link you posted has convinced me that the Naim HDX is the only way to go.

If that's the simple set-up guide well........fook me

Something that takes 5 minutes is surely not worth doing.

Dear Patrick,

Go and look in System Pix. [page 96]. I put some lovely pictures up after eight years of Naim ownership!

Never mind the heat here, have a look there and smile at the obvious pleasure of it all!

ATB from George

quote:

Originally posted by Phil Harris:
Just for clarity ...

... we *DO NOT* use EAC or a derivative thereof

Thanks for the clarification,.

What was the failing of the EAC?

Or why Naim decided not to use it?

Kuma,

What Naim is using as a "engine" is virtually identical in every way to EAC.

I have no major beefs with Naim's method and would not have an issue with a rip created on an HDX. They will be as good as anything.

So I guess it is a non-issue.

The reason they dont use EAC, I am guessing, has to do with licensing etc...., and I am sure there are one or two points they might differ on.

quote:

Originally posted by pcstockton:

Something that takes 5 minutes is surely not worth doing.

I better give up sex then. It never takes longer than that these days!

ATB from George

quote:

Originally posted by pcstockton:
What Naim is using as a "engine" is virtually identical in every way to EAC.

I think I'd wait to be Phil'd in on that. Although exact details may be withheld.

quote:

Originally posted by David Dever:
...and they were incorrect. (I stand corrected.) The files ARE different.

I had used FileCompare 1.1 on the Mac to generate the MD5 checksums, but it appears that, using a different audio editor, I was able to invert and add the two files together to get a difference signal that I didn't get with the same file added to itself.

Most of the difference lies within the lowest two or three bits.

How odd! If the data read by the two drives had bit differences, why would they be mainly in the lowest two or three bits? Surely they would be randomly spread across all bits unless the signal was being converted to analog and back to digital at some stage.

Difference signal, not difference bitmask–and note the qualifier "most" as opposed to all–doesn't mean the differences weren't present elsewhere.

You're a fairly thorough guy–why not try a bunch of different drives with your DS and see what I mean?

I'll look out for a Plextor CD-ROM drive and give it a go although given two accurate rips (confirmed by the checksum), I'm not sure how the 'finger-prints' of two different drives can be left behind.

oops - wrong thread

David,

I know that there is a long history of embarrassment when saying something like this, but with rips, bits is bits. I.e. if the checksums match it is the same to a high degree of probability. At least as I understand it, the data is at this point literally just numbers, and the storage medium is transparent, just one bit after another, since the S/PDIF bitstream is constructed and output by the soundcard.

But I'm not sure what you are comparing. Are you comparing EAC rips with different drives?

If that is the case, and the checksums don't match, it seems most likely that the drive offset that EAC tests for is inaccurate on one or the other drive.

Can you do rips on different drives that both check out correctly on the AccurateRip system and tell the difference? What about rips on dbPowerAmp that also check out as "accurate?"