Ford Fiesta Problems
Posted by: Don Atkinson on 23 January 2010
Ford Fiesta Problems
My youngest daughter has a 1995 1.1L HCS engined Ford Fiesta. It was working fine when she was home at Xmas, but developed problems after she got back to uni in Nottingham a couple of weeks ago and again, after a trip from Nottingham to Newcastle and back. She intends to come home tomorrow for a couple of days - its her birthday - so no doubt will be hoping I can fix her car problems overnight!!, well, I gather that's what dads are for, still.
After a long run, the car won't start the next morning. Battery is flat. Jump leads or a bump start gets it going and the battery charges up and seems to hold its charge. The battery is a 2 years old Halfords jobbie, with a 3 year guarantee, so a reasonable specimen. When I checked the car at Xmas, battery showed 12.6V on open circuit, dropping in steps to about 11.3V as succesive loads were added (Lights, rear window, demist etc). with engine running, the alternator was putting out 14.2V gradualling dropping as load was applied to about 12V. Compared to my Merc, it looked bloody good!
Also, when approaching traffic lights, roundabouts etc, ie when coasting and disengaing the clutch, the engine cuts out. re-engaging gear allows it to restart providing the car has enough momentum. Also, she has found that a quick "blip" on the throttle, as soon as depressing the clutch, usually keeps the revs up enough to prevent the engine cut-out, providing she keeps the revs up whist also braking.
Any ideas of what the problem(s) are and what is likely to cure them?
Cheers
Don
PS at present i'm inclined towards two separate problems. The alternator brushes are worn and sticking - or the regulator is on the blink. And secondly, the throttle kicker is knackered.
Posted on: 23 January 2010 by bornwina
The electrical fault sounds like something is draining the battery with the ignition off - boot light? Is there a spark when you reconnect the battery with the ignition off indicating a current being drawn?
The figures you have provided seem to prove the charging circuit is working although a garage with a decent battery tester (not a drop tester) would show up a fault with the battery.
Cutting out at junctions is possibly caused by the idle speed control valve sticking (its an electrical stepper motor and gets coked up) - you can sometimes clean these out with carb cleaner but if persists the only permanent solution is replacement.
Good luck
Jeremy
Posted on: 24 January 2010 by Guinnless
I agree with what the above poster has said.
If there is a permanent drain on the battery and it's constantly being flattened then the battery is likely to suffer damage. The figures you have provided indicate that this may well be the case.
As bornwina has said get the battery tested properly (any decent motor factors should be able to do this) and check to see if there is any current drain with everything switched off. It doesn't need to be much current to flatten the battery over a few days. I had a mysterious flat battery problem that I traced back to the glove box light staying on!
Cheers
Steve
Posted on: 24 January 2010 by Mike-B
quote:
with engine running, the alternator was putting out 14.2V gradualling dropping as load was applied to about 12V
Don, this is not right, the alternator regulated voltage should be maintained at 14.2v, or close to that, irrespective of load.
What you are saying in effect is the alternator is not balancing the load. If the alternator has a max output of (example only) 30amps & the full amp load is 20amps, then you have 10 amps more alternator capacity than the load, this means the alternator should still be regulating - in other words limiting the alternator output by regulating its voltage to 14.2v.
What-to-do
Do it again & be sure the engine is running at a high idle speed, 2000rpm'ish.
If the battery volts fall again to 12v, it indicates the alternator is defective & most likely has lost 1 or possibly 2 of its 3 phase windings.
Or (don't want to insult your diagnostic skills) but is the fan belt slipping, watch out tho' as a tight belt can still slip on highly polished pulley grooves, but it is normally accompanied by the high pitched "Ford" screech. That'l be a nice cheap thing to find.
Additionally 1990-something Fords have crap wiring
It might be worth a few quid to get it looked over by a profession auto electrician
Posted on: 24 January 2010 by Howlinhounddog
quote:
What-to-do
Do it again & be sure the engine is running at a high idle speed, 2000rpm'ish.
If the battery volts fall again to 12v, it indicates the alternator is defective & most likely has lost 1 or possibly 2 of its 3 phase windings.
Or (don't want to insult your diagnostic skills) but is the fan belt slipping, watch out tho' as a tight belt can still slip on highly polished pulley grooves, but it is normally accompanied by the high pitched "Ford" screech. That'l be a nice cheap thing to find.
Don,
I'm also tending towards Mike's guess based on a similar problem with a 1979 Allegro many years back. It's been a tough winter for older car electrics (and for that matter rubber bit's) so hopefully an inexpensive repair/replacement.
And your correct by the way, this is what Dad's are for. Good luck.
Charlie.
Posted on: 25 January 2010 by Don Atkinson
Thanks for all your advice so far.
I replaced the alternator drive belt as a precaution but the battery and alternator both seem to be fine. The battery voltage drops from about 12.6V to about 11.7V under heavy load. The alternator voltage drops from about 14.1V to about 12.2V under heavy load. The alternator/battery warning light doesn't come on after the engine has started, and things like headlights don't dim when other loads are applied. The battery is just as powerful first thing in the cold morning as it was the day before. No signs of overnight current drain.
The engine is fitted with a CFi fuel injector system. Looks a bit like a downdraught carburettor, but instead of the fuel being drawn in by air pressure drop in a venturi, fuel is squirted in via an injector - all being controlled by an EEC, fed on info fed from a dozen or so sensors. I gues any one of these sensors, including the throttle position sensor, could still be causing the other problem that I reported. The car took a good two miles to warm up and run smoothly. It kept cutting out whenever the throttle peddal was released.
Anyway, she has got back to uni safely and without further problem. So next time she pops home, I guess its a visit to our friendly, local, independent garage!.......unless someone has a bright idea?
Cheers
Don
Posted on: 29 January 2010 by Stephen Tate
I know this may sound silly but it is easily overlooked...Have you made sure all the earth straps are clean and well connected? Bellhouse earth ect...
Could be something as simple as this...just a thought...
Posted on: 29 January 2010 by vandergraafuk
As far as the charging circuit goes it does sound a little suspect. The alternator regulator if doing its job correctly should output 13.8V under load conditions. If it is dropping to 12V-12.2V under load conditions I suspect the regulator. On some cars this is relatively an easy job to replace. As for the cutting out I would if it is fuel injected change fuel filters first as after the cold snap if any water was in them it may have frozen and deformed part of the internals of the fuel filter. Hope this may or may not have helped.
Posted on: 29 January 2010 by Don Atkinson
Just a quick update
The battery/alternator problem seems to be solved. No more flat batteries. Car starts first turn, hot or cold.
Problem now is only related to the fact the engine cuts out when she takes her foot off the throttle. It seems to be worse when the car is cold. After about five miles or so, the car seems to run fine. The car can run smoothly for a few days, then for the next few days the problem returns.
Cheers
Don
Posted on: 29 January 2010 by BigH47
VW Polo can have a stalling problem something to do with the throttle body assembly, whether Ford use a similar system, I don't know.
Posted on: 29 January 2010 by mongo
'lo Don.
Perhaps you could check the choke assembly. The fact that it runs fine when warm and cuts when cold may in indicate an insufficient mix. Or perhaps a broken/stretched choke attachment/cable.
Paul
Posted on: 29 January 2010 by Mark Dunn
Hi Don,
Check that the bolts holding the exhaust header to the head are tight. Don't ask me how I know.
Mark
Posted on: 29 January 2010 by markfs
Don,
Have you checked the temp. sensors connections and readings? There will possibly be two, one for the gauge on the dash and one for the ECU controlling injection.
Mark
Posted on: 30 January 2010 by Mark Rothko
Hi Don
We had the same engine cut-out problem on our 2000 Ford Focus. Our local mechanic cleaned and replaced the idle speed control valve, throttle control valve - all to no avail.
Digging deep into Ford owners' forums, I finally found the solution in a part called a "speed sensor".
This - I believe as I am no mechanic - is situated either on or near the gearbox. The component cost approx £20/30 to buy - and a lot of fiddling to fit (according to my mechanic).
We had this done approx. one year ago and the cut-out problem has not recurred.
I hope this info is of help to you.
Posted on: 30 January 2010 by Don Atkinson
My daughter's Fiesta has a CFi fuel injector system. It is controlled by an EEC IV engine management computer.
The EEC takes info from about a half a dozen sensors and in turn adjusts the fuel/air mix, timing of the spark etc.
Looks like any one of the sensors could be duff, or the EEC itself. Also looks like only a garage with the right diagnostic computer can identify the problem and the likely fix..........According to a couple of local garages I asked at today.
One of then reconned about 30 minutes work to analyse and identify the problem, then £xxx to fix.
Where £xxx couldn't be guessed at yet. Sounds expensive.
Cheers
Don
