AFL (Anti Football League)

quote:

Originally posted by winkyincanada:

Oh, I don't have a problem with competing, even with oneself. Our club rides are competitive in one sense (the races even more so, obviously - we are a racing club), but we don't do it for money, nor for others to watch.

It is when the activity of watching others compete (especially overpaid bullies with thick necks) overrides one's desire to actually participate that I feel people need to reconsider. Football is just most visible example of this issue.

Is it just professional sport? How do you feel about theatre, film, concerts ...?

Football - please don't take the Premier League as representing football in the UK, Hackney Marshes and the like are a larger part of the whole.


deadlifter - quote:

I think you will find that most rugby fans are to be found at their local ground at the weekends and are not bothered about tv coverage or how successfull football is they just hope and pray as I do that rugby does not follow in footballs disgracefull footsteps

deadlifter,

Sadly it looks like football may be following in rugby's disgraceful footsteps; Arteta of Everton attempted a spot of eye gouging last week.

Cheers,
OW

quote:

Originally posted by King Size:

quote:

Originally posted by winkyincanada:
It is when the activity of watching others compete (especially overpaid bullies with thick necks) overrides one's desire to actually participate that I feel people need to reconsider. Football is just most visible example of this issue.

So its the act of spectating, especially if its a sport that you don't approve of, that gets to you?

It is more complex than that. Spectating is fine, but for me, ultimately unsatisfying. This is regardless of whether my "favourite" wins. I just can't get excited by it. Other than "support" (whatever the hell that really means) my man/team, what have I done? Nothing.

As to whether I approve of specific sports or not is really moot, but anyway...

I like sports where people compete on their own terms. That is, the performance of the opponent doesn't hugely affect the performance of the player. Take golf. Sure, there is a psychological aspect, but the shot one player makes doesn't physically affect another's shot. Excellence is demonstrated in an absolute sense (OK, against aggregate historical performances, strictly speaking) by a low round, or great shot regardless of the opponent. In football, for one team to crush another team is not meaningful. Was team A great, or Team B poor? If a player scores a goal, was it a great shot, or poor goalkeeping? OK, long winning streaks may demonstrate a quality team, but this is where the financially driven construct of teams makes it meaningless. It is path dependent. Successful teams get more money and afford better players. They continue to win consistently. So what? What else did you expect?

In marathon running for example, there are mind games and pack drafting, but at the end of the day a 2:06 marathon is something special. I don't doubt I saw a great run. This makes it a great sport. In fact, I can compare the winner's time to my own modest times and marvel even more. I can also enjoy participating in a race or even just going for a run that isn't a race.

But my main objection to football is tribalism and "fan fervour". The sense that I am better than you because "my" team won. I hate this even more on a national level. Satetments like "We won the World Cup" makes my blood boil. "We?, We?!...you didn't even f%$#ing play!".

quote:

Originally posted by GFFJ:

....said that I would definately be competitive as a veteran in time trialing

ATB from George

Don't go there George. Time trialing is just pain management ! "Can I stand more pain? Yes? Then I should be going harder!". It is very satifying, though. Something you enjoy more once it is over than during the event. Many (All?) great experiences have this charateristic.

winkyincanada,

You may enjoy what's on YouTube under:

Mitchell & Webb - Football, Football, Football

and,

That Mitchell and Webb Look - Football

Cheers,
OW

quote:

Originally posted by winkyincanada:
It is more complex than that.

clearly. I guess there is a formula that involves, cheating, ethics, tribalism, competing, participation, great sports, despised sports, fans, spectators...

quote:

But my main objection to football is tribalism and "fan fervour". The sense that I am better than you because "my" team won. I hate this even more on a national level. Satetments like "We won the World Cup" makes my blood boil. "We?, We?!...you didn't even f%$#ing play!".

'Hate' and 'boiling blood' are not positive sentiments, no matter who they come from or whom they are directed towards.

I think its time I signed out of this one.

quote:

But my main objection to football is tribalism and "fan fervour". The sense that I am better than you because "my" team won. I hate this even more on a national level. Satetments like "We won the World Cup" makes my blood boil. "We?, We?!...you didn't even f%$#ing play!".

......The argument that you shouldn't use the word "we" in a sporting sense because as an individual you didn't actually play in the competition is obviously pants ......If you wouldn't feel better because your team won the world cup then fine ....although personally (as obviously a spawn of satan would do) I love football (there I've said it!) so I guess I'm too blinkered to see the point of this whole facile argument.

Despite all the hype ...overpaid players ..too expensive admission prices ..occasional acts of violence ...etc etc Football (Soccer) isn't the world's most popular sport by accident ....It is the most popular sport BECAUSE of the genuine global fervour it creates from Argentina to Zaire

OK so I LIKE being tribal ...I even LIKE screaming abuse at my team when they f**k up! the reason rugby (amongst most other sports) doesn't have the same type of tribal following is ....NO ONE REALLY CARES ENOUGH about a rugby result to get really tribal!! sorry egg chasing afficianados but that is surely the difference - mebbe's fan fervour does have neanderthal roots but releasing one's pent up frustrations at a football game feels soooooo good I don't know how anyone could live without it!

quote:

Originally posted by winkyincanada:

I just hate all things to do with football.

winky, I love football. Always have, always will.

quote:

Originally posted by winkyincanada:

But my main objection to football is tribalism and "fan fervour". The sense that I am better than you because "my" team won. I hate this even more on a national level. Satetments like "We won the World Cup" makes my blood boil. "We?, We?!...you didn't even f%$#ing play!".

I don't know if you know all this, so I'll fill you in. From the final of the first World Cup I can remember, in Spain in 1982: almost everyone watching around the world wants Italy to beat West Germany (including me, thanks to my Italian granny) after the German goalkeeper, Harold Schumacher, committed just about the worst foul you'll ever see to prevent a goal for France in their semi-final.

There's 90,000 people inside the stadium and a few billion others are watching at home, me included - I watched the game with my dad and my brother. Italy are winning 1-0, there's about twenty minutes to go, and then this happens:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...dv28&feature=related

I don't need to intellectualise what's going on when I watch football, it's simple enough. Put away (y)our cynicism, and forget all the obvious negatives for a moment, this famous goal is everything about football. Was then, still is: the glory, the excitement, the one moment of magic that transcends the game.

It's a great goal, but look at Marco Tardelli's face, his passion, listen to the noise inside the stadium, after he's just scored in a World Cup final to give his country a two goal lead. It meant a lot, to a lot of people. It still does. I'm sure someone somewhere asks him about that goal every day of his life.

That is football.

Hey, clearly my views are personal ones. I don't discount the pleasure that football gives people, but please afford me the right to be annoyed by football's unwelcome intrusion into my life. I hate it, and always will: Not the game, nor the majority of fans and players, but the phenomenom that is football and the way it sucks the life out of other sports.

As I said, I deliberately didn't post on one of the footy-loving threads. It is your choice to keep reading this one and whether to be annoyed or not.

I am diappointed I didn't get more support, but I guess I learnt something, and that can't be a bad thing.

quote:

Originally posted by winkyincanada:
Hey, clearly my views are personal ones. I don't discount the pleasure that football gives people, but please afford me the right to be annoyed by football's unwelcome intrusion into my life. I hate it, and always will: Not the game, nor the majority of fans and players, but the phenomenom that is football and the way it sucks the life out of other sports.

Nobody forces you to watch footie, read footie threads or go to matches.

quote:

As I said, I deliberately didn't post on one of the footy-loving threads. It is your choice to keep reading this one and whether to be annoyed or not.

And its your choive wrt football, surely.

quote:

I am diappointed I didn't get more support, but I guess I learnt something, and that can't be a bad thing.

I'm sure that you'd have as much support if you'd moaned about American Football on a US forum.

Note that ( from what I've read ) that while no football fans have moaned about rugby, some egg-chasers have had a pop about footie.

I'm usually right...

Mike,

I moan about all forms of football. I'm fair in that regard. OK, if I was being brutally honest, I would admit that I especially despise Rugby League above all other codes.

As much as I try to ignore football, it just isn't possible to eliminate its effect on my my life entirely. For one thing, football is just too pervasive in the media. It dominates the sports pages and often makes into regular news. I just can't avoid it, try as I might. I certainly don't "watch it, read footie threads or go to matches", but that's not enough.

Match day traffic, drunken supporters and the siphoning of my money to overpaid players via sponsorship all create an effect on my life that is difficult to avoid (or was, until I moved to Canada).

quote:

Originally posted by winkyincanada:

Well, I'm going to be a little selfish here as I would mainly select sports in which I have or do participate.

Sailing, skiing, climbing, cycling, triathlon and running

No offence Winky, but that doesn't sound like a riveting sports channel in the making. For all of it's faults, football is spectator sport - none of those you list are.

Joe

quote:

Originally posted by Joe Bibb:

quote:

Originally posted by winkyincanada:

Well, I'm going to be a little selfish here as I would mainly select sports in which I have or do participate.

Sailing, skiing, climbing, cycling, triathlon and running

No offence Winky, but that doesn't sound like a riveting sports channel in the making. For all of it's faults, football is spectator sport - none of those you list are.

Joe

Totally agree. Not spectator sports at all.

I have to admit Winky that despite enjoying watching the absorbing Champs League semi-final between Inter and Barcelona tonight....I grimaced at some of the awful time wasting and play acting going on throughout the game

.....and although the actual game leaves me cold others are right ...it wouldn't have happened in a rugby match!

No, players would rather gouge the eyes of the other players.

Is the spear tackle still allowed?

In my view Rugger has been spoilt as well.

What passes for it now cannot erase memories of the glory days of the Welsh side with people like JPR Williams and Gareth Edwards.

The quality will never been seen again, and it manifested itself in a stylish fast moving game that was very involving, and though it could be physical, it was not tainted with such terrible acts as gouging.

Where did this awful method of cheating come from? Life banning is required for it IMHO.

ATB from George

JPR Williams - I remember his torn cheek after some stamping.

Cheers,
OW

Was that against France?

They were easily the roughest players in those days.

These days I have next to no interest in Rubgy, or as much as I used to even in cricket.

ATB from George

Being Welsh I long ago grasped the idea that all sport is a safe forum for playing out injustice! Why single out any single sport?