Leica owners - your advice needed

Hi Kevin,

Can't comment on the price. Both the model and the lens are still highly desirable.

I've found Kodak Tmax 400 to be good for b&w and it has the advantage of being able to be put through a C-41 processor at Boots. Failing that anything by Fuji, Ilford, Kodak. Given your location, you've probably got labs near you that still have an E6 line, so if you want colour, in short, Fujichrome, probably Velvia or Provia.

Best, Chris

Here are some pics of the camera in case you're interested...

Not sure if this will help but some things to consider:

Are you sure that you do not require any aperture priority operation i.e. shutter speed set automatically? If you need this, you would have to look at an M7, the M6 being manual only.

Have you considered the viewfinder magnification and the focal length that you are most likely to use as a default lens (assuming you will add further lenses later)? Leica's are available with 0.58x; 0.72; and 0.85x viewfinders - the larger the number the longer the focal length most suitable. 0.72 is ideal for 35mm lens.

Is the model offered an M6 or M6 TTL (different light meter functionality - I think for flash use).

An immaculate M6 would normally sell for circa £800 - £900 in a dealer.

The 35mm Summilux ASPH (those last four letters being critically important as I'm sure you know!) is one of the best lenses money can buy. It is also one of the rarest lenses on the market as most owners hold on to them. Demand is therefore immense (relative to the Leica market!). I would guess a market value of £1,300 - £1,500 for this including case, hood and filter.

I can't comment on the flash unit - maybe £100? Do you need it? The case again nominal value £100.

Buying as a job lot, I would be hoping to negotiate a lesser value - it just depends on how much you want or need the Summilux lens. I would love to have one but equally I am delighted with Summicrons which provide fabulous quality but with a maximum f/2.0 rather than f/1.4 aperture. There is tremendous qudos with the Summi but do ask yourself how important the extra f stop is to you - i.e. is low light photography an important aspect for you.

Suggest you have a look at prices in some dealers - in London I'd suggest Aperture Photographic; Red Dot Cameras; and The Classic Camera. A Yahoo search will locate their web sites.

Happy hunting and watch out - Leica can be as addictive as Naim in their own way!!

Peter

Not sure what the weather is like in the UK at the moment, but something rated at ISO 400 might be too high for daytime use. I like Arcos at 100 or Ilford's PANF at 50.

For colour, Velvia can be a beast to scan, which might put you off in the short term (unless you are happy with the images as slides).

I am yet to try Kodak's new Ektar, but it might be interesting for some daytime colour and it is not slide film.

M6 is a lovely camera, but what is your experience of the rangefinder system? Whilst the M7 is not something for purists, it certainly helps if you don't want total exposure angst. Similarly, Zeiss and Cosina offer cheaper entry points.

35 summilux - lovely lens, but summicron is lighter and smaller and paints beautifully.

If you have the cash, I don't think you would lose on this offer. My only concern, given the limited usage and age of the unit might be that the shutter might be a little off. You might want to factor in the cost of a CLA at Milton Keynes or via another accredited Leica engineer.

With £2,650, you could buy a lot of photographic equipment which would help you to shoot what and when you want.

Cameras like the M6 are limiting and sold to bankers.

quote:

Originally posted by count.d:
With £2,650, you could buy a lot of photographic equipment which would help you to shoot what and when you want.

Cameras like the M6 are limiting and sold to bankers.

Oooooh. Fightin' words. Engineers also like stuff like Leicas. There is a satisfaction that comes from owning quality. $5 watches keep better time than $5,000 Swiss chronographs, but for many (not just "bankers") that's not the point.

Having said that, I agree with you to some extent. For taking actual photos, you could get the same functionality for much less money, or buy a lot of really nice (non-collectible/non-rare) stuff for the same money. Yes, digital SLR bodies are effectively throw-aways these days, but an F5 and a couple of nice fast primes would be a very versatile film option.

quote:

Originally posted by count.d:
With £2,650, you could buy a lot of photographic equipment which would help you to shoot what and when you want.

Cameras like the M6 are limiting and sold to bankers.

Count, your sneery attitude is not particularly helpful. I agree with you in that those ridiculous 'limited editions' Leica comes out with are sold to bankers and the like and not much use to anyone who wants a camera to actually take pictures.

But Leicas have also been sold to Capa, Cartier-Bresson, Salgado, Boubat, Haas and many other great photographers. HC-B did almost all his work with M cameras; and Leica glass is some of the finest ever made. And while red dot cameras are not suitable for sports or macro photography; and rangefinders take a bit of getting used to, there's no way the Leica is a "limiting" camera. In fact its size, quietness and the quality of the glass means that for most photography, it is a camera with almost limitless potential.

I've already got a Nikon FM2 system, an old Minolta and a couple of Pannyleica digitals, so it's not as if the M6 would be my only camera. In any case I'm not interested in owning a load more kit, just a Leica.

Kevin,

It's interesting isn't it, you ask about film and mostly get critiques of your Leica purchasing decision!

Best, Chris

quote:

Originally posted by Christopher_M:
Kevin,

It's interesting isn't it, you ask about film and mostly get critiques of your Leica purchasing decision!

Best, Chris

To be fair, he did also ask if he would be getting a bargain .

Yes Kevin did ask if he would be getting the Leica stuff at a bargain price but I assumed that he meant bargain price for a Leica. Since I don't know about the M6 beyond its fantastic reputation, I tried to answer the question about film.

Thinking about it now, as a non Leica owner, maybe I shouldn't have responded at all!

Cheers, Chris

PS. And yes, I'd love it. I'd stick the case, flash and lens cap in the back of a drawer, and loosen the strap enough so that I could wear the camera satchel style, perhaps under a jacket. Couple of rolls of Tmax 400 in your pocket, suddenly you're walking with giants.

quote:

Originally posted by count.d:
Cameras like the M6 are limiting and sold to bankers.

Really...

Film? I'm a sucker for colour slide film and with that I tend to return time after time to Fuji Provia 100F which has wonderfully tight grain and, to my mind, a more neutral/ natural colour representation than the likes of Velvia.
Depending on the weather forecast, you may want to carry a roll of the Provia 400X if light levels are possibly lacking.

Slide film does tend to have less lattitude when it comes to getting the exposure right and in a certain regard using this may help to identify whether this could be a source of frustration for you in using a manual only camera.

Have fun out and about with the M6 this weekend!

Peter

I have the m6 and the 35 1.4 with one aspherical surface. The one with two aspherical surfaces is hard to find. Be sure which one you are getting.

But I would not pay up for either. I personally would not get into film now. Digital looks pretty good.

I am also a banker; unapologetic, too.

quote:

Originally posted by count.d:
Cameras like the M6 are limiting and sold to bankers.

Preamps like the 552 are limiting and sold to bankers.

Where is Pylod when you need him?

Kevin, not a sneery attitude and as always I try to help....but in my own way.

I don't collect cameras and the days of drooling over glossy mags full of pictures of beautiful looking glass, finished twenty years ago. I collect images and I have distinct memories of missed shots still printed in my mind.

I don't like missing shots.

Setting up at the top of a spiral of steps and waiting for a cyclist to ride by, could be captured with pin-hole camera.

So Kevin, did you try it out this weekend? Any results? And how did it feel?

Chris

quote:

Originally posted by Christopher_M:
So Kevin, did you try it out this weekend? Any results? And how did it feel?

Chris

Hi Chris

Unfortunately family issues intervened so I never got to pick up the camera, let alone try it .

Maybe next weekend... I'll let you know.

Kevin,
As with Naim, I think the used Leica market is rich with bargains which give you huge bang for your buck.

Naim (72,HI,CB 250, CDX, XPS, ES-11)
Leica (2x M6, M5, M3, MDa, iii, iiic, iiifRD, R8 plus loadsa great Summicron, Summitar and Elmar lenses)

For GBP2,650 you are approaching the digital M8 territory. I really see no point in getting a like new or minty M6 as you can get great used examples for around GBP 600.

I prefer the straight M6 and not the M6ttl, I don't need the Apeture priority metering that it provides.

As for film TriX if you'll develop yourself, BW400CN if you'll have the local lab do it.

Also, remember, if it's in such good condition you won't want to use it. My silver M6 is pristine (paid GBP 550), it stays home, my black M6 is in excellent shape (but no cosmetically) has travelled the world with me and I consider it a part of me ...

Bon chance ...
Ron
(Chemical Engineer)

Well, what happened then? Can Cartier-Bresson rest easy knowing that his legacy is safe?

Best, Chris

I have been using an M8 for a couple of years now. Seduced by the portability and legend of Leica glass.
Although strictly amateur, I have many years of experience (and, for what it's worth) a few qualifications. I can now say that I couldn't cope with a film rangefinder, and am full of admiration for those who can.
For example, I spent all of yesterday shooting at a classic car show, using five lenses from 12mm to 75mm, swapping all the time. I cannot count the number of times my framing was way off due to parallax-error from the view finder. With the M8, I could obviously just take the shot again with the needed shift taken from the screen, but how Leica film-users keep all the variables for subject distance and different lenses in their heads is beyond me.

quote:

Originally posted by Christopher_M:
Well, what happened then? Can Cartier-Bresson rest easy knowing that his legacy is safe?

Best, Chris

Chris, I think he can. It was more difficult to use than I thought it would be, although it feels great, it's also in such immaculate condition I think I would be afraid to use it often. It feels more like a precious jewel rather than a working camera (like my FM2).

When I get the pics back I may post them, providing they're not too embarrassing!

quote:

Originally posted by Rockingdoc:
...but how Leica film-users keep all the variables for subject distance and different lenses in their heads is beyond me.

Pretty easy really...and after a few years you'll find you don't even really need to raise the camera to the eye to 'see' the framing....

If you have a MkI M8, the frame accuracy is shockingly bad (it was calibrated for a longer distance than the standard 1.5m used for decades with the film M's) and after howls of complaints from many a pro was one of the many needed things they changed with the current MkII.....It's better, though still not as refined a camera as a M4/6/P....Leica - love 'em, hate 'em !

p.s. Hope that CCD is keeping clean with all those lens changes !

Steve

As someone who's never used a Leica M, never mind owned one, I'm interested to hear of your experience Kevin. Two former colleagues swear by them, and insist that it's just a question of familiarity, such that when you go back to your FM2, it would be that which would feel odd.

Best, Chris

quote:

Originally posted by SC:

quote:

Originally posted by Rockingdoc:
...but how Leica film-users keep all the variables for subject distance and different lenses in their heads is beyond me.

Pretty easy really...and after a few years you'll find you don't even really need to raise the camera to the eye to 'see' the framing....

If you have a MkI M8, the frame accuracy is shockingly bad (it was calibrated for a longer distance than the standard 1.5m used for decades with the film M's) and after howls of complaints from many a pro was one of the many needed things they changed with the current MkII.....It's better, though still not as refined a camera as a M4/6/P....Leica - love 'em, hate 'em !



Steve

Yes it is a Mark 1. I don't have the same problem with my Mamiya 7 rangefinder, but it never occured to me it could be the camera's fault rather than mine.

quote:

Originally posted by SC:

p.s. Hope that CCD is keeping clean with all those lens changes !
Steve

Nah! that's what Photoshop is for.

I wouldn't bother with the Leica if I were you.

If you're interested in taking pictures and not posing, Konica Minolta did it better with the wonderful Hexar of a few years ago. The Summilux also, to my mind, upsets the balance of the camera. The perfect lens is the old non-ASPH Summicron, (pictured) which is a great, sharp, walkabout lens. This is mine: