Horizon last night

It strikes me that as a matter of SURVIVAL, we in Europe need to develop new energy sources such as nuclear power and hydrogen fuel cells. Our tractors need them!!

I'm also unclear as to how much oil goes into our hifi and audio-visual systems, or what can be developed to supercede oil/plastics.

Now I know that our big companies are run by accountants, who, as a species, have a look-ahead horizon of about 3 years (5 year tops) so if oil looks like lasting say 91 years, then to these people that looks like an infinite resource. So I wouldn't rely on them investing too much at present in alternative energy/materials......without Government incentives..........

sod it.....seems like we're buggered.

Cheers

Don

quote:

sod it.....seems like we're buggered.

Cheers

Don

Dear Don,

I suspect no truer words have ever been written on the subject, but I look at it like this:

I liken fossil fuels to a rotting corpse in a field [which represents the earth], and the human race to the maggots that will hatch from the blow fly eggs that will rapidly be laid to fully utilise the resource of the rotting corpse as fast as possible.

When the corpse is gone then the maggots will either die, or a very few will suruvive to become blow flies who will hunt the next rotting corpse.

The time of the existence of the human is a trice compared to the time before humans, and the earth's future existence without humans will be in a similar order of maginitude.

The human race is a very bright burning candle, and of bright burning candles, the observation that they burn short is certainly true.

Whether the human race exhausts the resources and has a near mass extinction in your or my lifetime I cannot guess, but I actually think that it is quite likely in the next fifteen to fifty years.

I do not worry about this as it is what might correctly be called the "common doom."

What is absolutely certain is that humanity will eventually cause its own demise ...

Very good and thought provoking programme.

ATB from George

No optimists out there ... ?

ATB from George

Not until I've listened to a lot more music I hope.

quote:

No optimists out there ... ?

Yes. Me.

Man WILL come up with lasting solutions to stationary-energy and mobile-energy needs. I just don't know what they will look like yet.

And they will ALSO be ecco-friendly.

However, as far as home-entertainment and Naim are concerned, I think its back to family self-entertainment on violins/cellos etc and singing around the heat-emmitting green-glowing fusion radiator.

Cheers

Don

Dear Don,

You miss out the rather important lack of an answer for when oil becomes exhausted or several times more expensive relative to other living costs in terms of plant nutrition. Plants require feeding [plant nutrients, which can be called, chemical energy + photosynthesis of the sun's energy leads to plant growth of food, which is also chemical energy] to produce foodstuffs for humans. The well known rules about conservation of energy apply as much to food production as to any other area.

"From what are we going to manufacture artifial fertiliser to keep growing ever more food from the same [or diminishing] land area, as to maintain current levels of production fertiliser from oil is a pre-requisite?"

To keep levels of output growing, then we need to use more artifical fertiliser.

It will not matter if we have hydrogen cells for the tractors if we do not have the oil to manufacture artificial fertiliser to nourish the crops we have to gorw to prevent a mass starvation/near rextinction scenario. Modern industrial agriculture is absolutely not sustainable at current output levels without oil based fertiliser.

There is absolutely no reason for optimism, when the question are not even being asked. Let alone discussed!

ATB from George

George,

You know more about farming than I do, my only connection was potato picking and a few other bits and pieces, on my uncle's farm in Co Durham.

Plenty of natural phosphates, nitrates and potash around the world - usually around active volcanos or "Dead" seas. Also we need to develop crops that have variable root depths. This will help us draw nutrients from a greater depth if soil. And we need to ensure soil is kept "alive" with insect/worm life which draw nutriants into the soil/life-cycle.

Previous posts show that we both agree that current human population levels are too large for the world to enjoy current western life-styles. Something has to change - but that could be man-made invention (yet again!!)

Cheers

Don

quote:

Originally posted by Geoff P:

We have had a a few fusion 'cons' since then. Pretty recently there was a claim to have acheived 'Cold Fusion' in a testtube.

Con-fusion?

Andrew Randle

Did they discuss how to handle the heat generated from all these fusion plants? What about waste (small amounts, but you can't ignore it.)

I always worry when people think we can have anything for free. There are always consequences to actions which can't be ignored.

However, many posters are right in one respect. If the resources squandered in pointless bickering were spent on developing fusion for the cold lands and solar for the hot, the human race is certainly capable of surviving - it's just a matter of co-operation. That and more governments supporting energy efficiency and microgeneration schemes with a fair tariff return (as in Germany).

Humans are weird; we are a social and co-operative species who can't get along with anyone 'different'. Yes some of us have no problems with doing this. I wonder if there's a 'co-operation gene' - tribalism must be an evolutionary response to some environmental pressure.

We need to stop using oil now because currently we have no real substitutes for plastics and fertiliser (scouring the world for natural phosphate deposits will cause more internecine wars than oil) - whatever your views on climate change, oil will eventually run out.

Stephen (No iPlayer in Sweden. )