Apple tv - is it worth getting a dac?

The Apple TV is not capable of passing through hi-res audio. That reason alone is enough to simply get a DAC, and ditch the ATV all together.

The Apple TV, in my bitchy opinion, is technology from about 5 years ago and has no place in a distributed audio situation.

Probably good for a dorm room though.

Whether the internal DAC of the ATV is "better" than a Beresford??? I cant say.

Whether or not it "betters" a Lavry, I would guess, NO WAY.

I would be more inclined to simply run a cable from your computer to your DAC, and not mess around with wireless anything.... except for your iPhone/Touch that will control everything wonderfully and wirelessly

quote:

Originally posted by pcstockton:
The Apple TV is not capable of passing through hi-res audio.

Gee, a 555 can't process high-res audio either; does that mean it's no good?

I believe that garyi is the Apple TV afficionado/expert here, perhaps he'll respond to the original question.

I think the ATV is great for what it does, at that level. Joy to use, integrates seamlessly with iTunes, so on and so forth. However, there's no doubt, for any serious 'audiophile' use the internal DAC is complete rubbish...I once had mine going into the internal DAC of my Marantz AVR, but because the DAC in that wasn't particularly brilliant, I ended up in just about the same position....

Of course, passing the ATV output to a decent DAC sitting in the middle via coax is going to be the best possible solution.....Issue is, which DAC ? Yes, there's the usual list at different price points, right up to the Chord. Personally, I'm hoping for a Naim solution, though I won't wait forever... There's the Supernait of course, though I haven't read much of ATV going the the DAC in the 'nait, plus, the mixed feedback of that DAC anyway...

True, the ATV doesn't (yet) handle hi-res files. I'm not sure this troubles me in light of how I use it. You have already said you are not looking to replace your CDP, and if you are only talking 200 or so albums, then it really would take no time at all to rip these to Apple Lossless, and have a neat and slick toy for light listening....

To answer, yes, you will notice a huge difference if you move away from the analogue outs.

I have an apple tv using a toslink cable into a Hi-cap Supernait. I also have a CD5x hi-cap, hi-line. The Apple TV is a wonderful additional source. For very serious listening the CD source gives that extra 5% but for everyday and for casual listening the Apple TV is very satisfying along with its convenience when used with an ipod for a remote control. Both have their place in my opinion and further more hard drive based music is the future..................

Yes you will benefit from a dac. It does not handle hi def material. However some of us aren't so far up our own arses as to think this is the only music worth listening too.

Once you feel brave you can hack an ATV really easily to instal software which amongst other things will allow you to install BBC iPlayer etc.

Another vote for the ATV. I'm running one into a Beresford then into a 202/250 and I must say I am extremely pleased with the results.

(With the latest ATV f/w you can now control the volume with the iPhone/iTouch remote app too).

OK let me try and clarify what I think I have learnt.

I never set out wanting to replace my cd player with this system, all I really want is easy access to the albumns on my pc which are already in lossless format for casual listening and giving the ability for the wife to listen without touching a cd!

So in order to get the best from the apple tv are we saying I should hard wire it, use a optical cable into a dac and then phono cables from the dac to the 202?

Sorry if this sounds basic but this is all new to me.

If you can ethernet it directly to your router that is an advantage but by no means essential (The ATV has wireless assuming you have a wireless adsl router)

After that the ATV has optical out, so purchase an optical SPDIF lead, ebay sell them cheaply.

This would then plug into a dac such as a beresford, or an older meridian 203 or what ever. (You do not want a USB dac in this instance, a traditional style hifi one will do)

Then out of the dac you typically have phono leads, so output to the 202 with phonos and programme the 202 to use the phonos on the input you have chosen to use.

Job done.

The ATV is a multifunction device as you are well aware and if you've bought the smaller Gb unit costs a couple of hundred dollars.

If the purpose of it amongst the photo sharing etc.. is for casual listening then why bother with all the trouble of DACs and just go dirctly into your pre-amp as you are with the RCA/DIN connection. This is a real easy way to start and will give you and your wife some opportunity to fiddle around with computer based music.

I'm sure in the future if there is an apple interest in hi-res they will prvide software to enable the apple tv to play 24 bit. I'd be surprised if the capability were not in the chip already.

I have to say if your really interested in computer based music and access to more than just your 200 albums, then I'd return the ATV and go with a Sonos or SB. If you've got an itouch, iphone there is an app from sonos to directly wirelessly control your music. SB does it as well but with a work around. You can convert your itunes to mp3 or wav. You have access to last.fm, internet radio, shoutcast local radio, international radio so you get the whole access thing going. With a rhapsody subscription you now have access to 3-4 million songs/playlists as well, so great versatility at $12-14/month.

My philosophy is that if you are going the computerized route I want access to everything I can and not just my music that I've ripped and stored. I hardly listen to my ripped music from my windows home server and listen to things I don't own for the casual side and save my music for the HDX or CDP in your case. Most of your music is probably on rhapsody anyway so a double bonus.

Other option is to get an inexpensive dac like the beresford or the chinese one that is "the same" and just use this alone. I'm not going to comment on the various devices/dacs since my opinion about the quality of playback differs completely with much of what I see written, even comparing a sonos to some of the dacs used by members.

More and more boxes means more and more expense. Keep it simple, easy, and cheap for now and wait to see what shakes. Maybe a Naim DAC or if you like the Linn Sneaky DS. If this is experimental and you want to see what adding a dac does then go with the beresford or "chinese beresford" which I think is $200 and $100 respectively and are the same thing.

quote:

Originally posted by garyi:
If you can ethernet it directly to your router that is an advantage but by no means essential (The ATV has wireless assuming you have a wireless adsl router)

You need wireless or hard wired if you want to stream off your PC.
If you synch up the ATV with iTunes (again wirelessly or hard wired) then you can play directly off the ATV.

quote:

Originally posted by gary1 (US):
then go with the beresford or "chinese beresford" which I think is $200 and $100 respectively and are the same thing.

I think you will probably find that isn't the case at all. Apart from the similar case of course.

quote:

Originally posted by aht:

Gee, a 555 can't process high-res audio either; does that mean it's no good?

No, it means you cannot play 24/96 files on a 555. I sure it is fabulous for RedBook.

Seeing that the OP is trying to "distribute" audio, I am not sure how the 555 is relevant. But i DO see how 24/96 audio is very much so.

The LP12 is not capable of 24/96 file replay either, yet is still a fantastic source.

To incorporate Computer Audio in one's kit while ignoring hi-res audio, seems to slightly miss the boat.

quote:

Originally posted by adymcd:
So in order to get the best from the apple tv are we saying I should hard wire it, use a optical cable into a dac and then phono cables from the dac to the 202?

Why even use it in this scenario? Why not PC > DAC > 202?

quote:

Originally posted by gary1 (US):

I have to say if your really interested in computer based music and access to more than just your 200 albums, then I'd return the ATV...

More and more boxes means more and more expense. Keep it simple, easy, and cheap for now and wait to see what shakes.

I completely agree...

Not sure why people are incorporating unnecessary boxes in the signal chain?

If you have a computer, why the need for a SB, Sonos, DS, or even HDX???? You only need a DAC. If you have a Mac, even better... you have a decent digi-output.

All you need is a decent sized Hard Drive and away you go.

You can rip in iTunes, EAC, dbPoweramp, Max, or whatever you want.

You can play in iTunes, Foobar, WMP, or antyhign you want.

You can use a traditional display, your iPhone/Touch, your HDTV or anything you want.

Confused....

Why ...? Wireless streaming maybe?

PC I agree, except as I wrote if adymcd's using the apple tv for photo sharing, movie access and music then it's a good fit for his purposes understanding that the music quality won't be great, but probably ok for casual listening while doing other things.

DAC is fine, but limited access to other music to a large degree. That's why I mentioned sonos, sb where you get hundreds of internet radio stations both US and internationally, shoutcast, pandora, last.fm, artist channels, and with rhapsody if inclined playlists and 3-4 millions songs. For me this access to essentially unlimited music outweighs only listening to my 200 albums that I've ripped. This is important to me. Furthermore, I think that Sonos-->Naim pre-amp sounds alot better than many dacs. Obviously this is my opinion and yours or others will differ and sonos has a downloadable iphone/itouch interface so controllable from your i device.

I don't think this is confusing, but depends upon your needs and wants. He can completely disregard my comments, I'm just laying out all of the different options. Always good to have things to consider and choices.

For example I am considering getting an apple tv, not for music, but for photo share and movies. TIVO has a box which does high def TV, music, photo share and netflix downloads with subscripton for movies and replaces my comcast cable box and can access the things on my server same way as ATV. So what's the better choice? It depends.

An AppleTV is a computer - a very small cute one but still a computer. Also if you want multi-room audio/video it is a very cheap way to go about it. Whether or not it is suitable as the main source for computer based audio I couldn't comment but if you want digital audio in more than one room with one central store I think it would be hard to beat. I use them in several rooms to access over a TB of ripped media seamlessly.

If you want digital audio in a single room use the computer - if in several rooms AppleTV is something to consider.

I do yearn for rhapsody/last.fm/internet radio etc etc but Sonos doesn't do video

quote:

Originally posted by pcstockton:

quote:

Originally posted by adymcd:
So in order to get the best from the apple tv are we saying I should hard wire it, use a optical cable into a dac and then phono cables from the dac to the 202?

Why even use it in this scenario? Why not PC > DAC > 202?

One might not want the computer to have to be on in order to listen to music. As has been mentioned, Apple TV is also a good multi-room solution. My audio system is far enough away from my computer that running a cable is out of the question. I have not been impressed with streaming audio wirelessly so I don't want my computer in the signal chain at all. An Apple TV is a perfect match for my needs and does a better job than any other computer solution to date of letting me get to the business of listening to music. Naturally I couldn't care less whether this solution meets some arbitrary 'audiophile' status as that word and the snobbery that goes with it are meaningless to me.

quote:

Originally posted by Harry H. Wombat:
An AppleTV is a computer - a very small cute one but still a computer. Also if you want multi-room audio/video it is a very cheap way to go about it. Whether or not it is suitable as the main source for computer based audio I couldn't comment but if you want digital audio in more than one room with one central store I think it would be hard to beat. I use them in several rooms to access over a TB of ripped media seamlessly.

If you want digital audio in a single room use the computer - if in several rooms AppleTV is something to consider.

I do yearn for rhapsody/last.fm/internet radio etc etc but Sonos doesn't do video

Harry, agree that's why I mentioned that choices and needs are important to consider. If I was in your situation and was looking to add on I'd much rather go with a Sonos device than go and add a DAC to connect to the apple tv.

Gary hi --

I like Sonos - think they have done a great job - love the idea of last.fm etc streamed through - would recommend it to anyone. The iPhone/Touch client is also very sweet. Why would anyone buy a Sonos controller now? They should get out of that market.

But when I first looked thought it was a bit expensive. AppleTV also does video for less money - and video is important for me. It's a trade I guess - I get video and lose the greater audio choice. Pound to a penny though that a streaming service comes to AppleTV before video comes to Sonos But you never know I guess!

In answer to the original question and follow up. So easy to get off track

The AppleTV is capable of either streaming audio from your PC (you need a wireless or wired connection) or copying the audio from your PC onto its hard drive. The setting to do this are available through iTunes. I am not sure which is the best for audio but in my set up I have the audio copied onto the AppleTV.

You can connect the AppleTV direct to your amplifier from the audio out - you just need an appropriate cable. This is probably best in the first instance.

I have no experience in this direct connection I use a DAC - but if it is truly for backgroud music try this solution first.

If the quality doesn't work for you - AppleTV will connect via an optical toslink type cable to a DAC of your choice (cables available everywhere) and then connect the DAC to your amplifier.

It is all extremely straightforward but if you have any more questions pop them on here.

Can you use the optical and analogue outputs on the Apple TV at the same time? I use the ATV as much for photos and video as music. Bizarrely, I get a better music audio signal from my Loewe TV when ATV audio runs to TV and then from TV to pre vs. straight from ATV to pre.

The thing is, I don't like having the TV on when I am listening to music. So, having the analogue leads run into the TV works for video but could I also run the optical audio to a DAC and from there to my pre at the same time? Using remote on my iPhone would then allow me to access my iTunes library without having to go through my TV. Or, do I have to unplug the analogue leads when wanting to listen to music?

Cheers,

Huw

quote:

Originally posted by Huwge:
Can you use the optical and analogue outputs on the Apple TV at the same time?

Yes, all Apple TV outputs are on continuously, so your can connect it simultaneously to a tv and an amp.

Huw --

I cannot answer directly as I have not tried this but I do know that when I used hdmi audio went to tv and through optical to dac. I have one of mine set up as component into tv and optical into dac. All audio then goes the dac route even for ripped video. It should not be surprising but it makes a huge difference for watching video. Like having a mini surround sound. Depends I suppose on whether tv Is between you speakers. Not recommended I know!

Naijeru - thx

Harry - that sounds interesting. I could HDMI from ATV to TV as this is a combined AV signal and then digital out to DAC for video and also ATV optical to DAC for music. This would then mean I only use one input on my pre instead of the two that I had originally assumed. Thanks.

Huw