Its BACH...or maybe NOT?

Dear Geoff,

This has been running for a good century and a half!

Really it is s great piece of musical drama, and it is rather unlike any other Bach Organ Prelude [Toccata or Fantasy] and Fugue. Even the Fugue is strange, but still a wonderfully exillerating piece.

The problem is that the proof does not seem entirely conclusive! Bit like did Shakespeare write the plays! There will always be those who want to seek the author as being another, and most Bach lovers would not feel slighted if eventually the case is proven against Bach's authorship, but really like most real accademic authorities on Bach, I am, in my amateur way, content to enjoy it for wht it is!

You know Brahms' Variations on a Theme of Haydn? It has been shown not to be Haydn's tune, but an old German theme, which Haydn happily used as did Brahms...

Equally old Handel was once reprimanded for stealing a tune [without acknowledgement] from a contemprary, and responded with the arrogance appropriate to him, "Yes, but the tunes too good for him!"

ATB from George

PS: If this little controversy adds to interest in this music, then I am all for it!

Toccata and Fugue in F BWV 540. Played by Helmut Walcha

Toccata

Fugue

Toccata and Fugue in D Minor, BWV 565, played by Helmut Walcha

Toccata and Fugue, in D Min.

Please do enjoy!

Geoff,
Do we really care? It's great music and I am happy filing it under "Bach". The reputations of academics have always been enhanced by evidence that one of the literary or musical giants has NOT written something. A study showing that Shakespeare did, in fact write his plays is soon forgotten.
I regard claims such as those you quote as quite unimportant.
Regards,
Ken

555

I like it...

George / Ken

I am with you guys. I never tire of listening to it . It has a marvellous drama about it.

The lady introducing Simon Preton at the Albert was obviously enjoying the chuckle it raised from the audience which clearly demonstrates that an Albert Hall full of people didn't care either and just wanted to hear it.

regards
Geoff

Who gives a flying f*** who wrote it,in what key and for what instrument.
I works as a classic organ piece.
Having just heard said piece at said prom and chuckled too.
It was marvellous.

quote:

Who gives a flying f*** who wrote it

I do - I wrote it and I want my royalties please.

Despite claims to the contrary Keith Emerson's version was simply a copy of my original

The guy in the next room keeps saying he's Napoleon, but he's a lair.

So what alternative genius do the experts propose may have written this piece? And what else did this forgotten genius write?
Also there is far more to the Toccata and Fugue bwv 564 than nicking a good old tune. Bach did rewrite lots of other composers existing works, but his own output totally eclipses anything preceeding it.
Personally I think the opening of Toccata and fugue is somewhat unique, and may owe something to someone else, but the main section of the toccata is very much like other JS Bach organ works in its structure and character.

BTW I also love Bach as The Terminator

regards,

mat

For the pleasure of all, and especially the amusement of ROTF.

Paul Klenowski's arrangement of the Toccata and Fugue, which is less far from the original in many ways than the more famous one by Leopold Stokowski.

What is amusing to note as ROTF will remember is that Klenowski, an unknown, even mythical Russian composer, was actually Sir Henry Wood's rather humourous pen name, and it worked. The critics acclaimed the arrangement though were mightil;y sniffy about Wood's ownn arrangements published in his own name.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTWzzDGkdK8

ATB from George

Dear George

Yes I do indeed remember Paul Klenovsky. Critics complained of Henry Wood’s interpretation of Bach was too heavily Wagnerian, his orchestrations suffocated the music. So Sir Henry introduced his orchestration as being by "Paul Klenovsky" and dated it Moscow, 1923. He was delighted when, as Lewis Foreman’s notes explain in Wood’s own words: the Press, the musicians of the Orchestra and the officials of the BBC fell into the trap, and said the scoring was wonderful, Klenovsky had the real flair for true colour.

Absolute genius in my view and unlike my attempt at humour, which was based on an old Monty Python sketch.

Game Show Host (John Cleese):
Good evening and welcome to Stake Your Claim.
First this evening we have Mr Norman Voles of Gravesend who claims he wrote all Shakespeare's works. Mr Voles, I understand you claim that you wrote all those plays normally attributed to Shakespeare?

Voles (Michael Palin): That is correct. I wrote all his plays and my wife and I wrote his sonnets.

Host: Mr Voles, these plays are known to have been performed in the early 17th century. How old are you, Mr Voles?

Voles: 43.

Host: Well, how is it possible for you to have written plays performed over 300 years before you were born?

Voles: Ah well. This is where my claim falls to the ground. There's no possible way of answering that argument, I'm afraid. I was only hoping you would not make that particular point, but I can see you're more than a match for me!

Host: Mr Voles, thank you very much for coming along.

Voles: My pleasure.

Host: Next we have Mr Bill Wymiss who claims to have built the Taj Mahal.

ATB Rotf

Yes, scandel, it sure makes things sexy.

Off topic: I went, many years ago, to a weekend seminar about cacti at our Botanic Garden with a friend. It was the last year for the head of the Southern California Cacti and Succulent Society and my friend said that there were rumors that he and his 'friend" were gay, in their 70s. To squelch that rumor, at the Christmas dinner and gala, he came in drag. I would have loved to have been there. Gawd love the Pythons.

quote:

Originally posted by ROTF:
Despite claims to the contrary Keith Emerson's version was simply a copy of my original

FOr some reason I put on the 'Nice' LP recently - I think it quotes from every piece of classical music ever written...