Neill's DVD5 and the Showcase

Posted by: Roy Donaldson on 04 April 2006

Hi there,

Well I had a most enjoyable time on Sunday afternoon, making a pleasant trip up to Stirling
to listen to Neill Ferguson's AV system.

The system consists of a Panasonic 37 inch Plasma, sitting on top of a nice Quadraspire
rack in wood and a single sheet of plain glass. The glass gives the shelves a nice
open look, making the table look smaller than it actiually is. I must say I think I like
the size of the 37 inch plasma he has over my smaller 32 inch LCD.

This is fed by a nice set of components:

Naim AV2
Naim DVD5

Bryston 9B SST 5 channel power amp

driving a set of Snell fronts and center, with some in wall mounted rears.

This is all connected together with a nice selection of Chord cabling. Fortunately,
not having Naim power amps has meant that Neil hasn't had the pleasure of trying to
route NACA5 around his room ;-)

We watched Serenity and Star Wars III which both looked and sounded lovely on the
system. The picture being very nice via the Chord HDMI cable. We then had a listen
to Jack Johnston on CD which was nice.

Now, for the controversial section of my post :-)

We then substitited the Naim DVD5 with a Krell Showcase DVD player.

We began by playing the Jack Johnston CD in the player again. What a difference, the
soundstage opened up, you could hear the stumming of the guitar strings and
him slapping the guitar body which wasn't clear on the DVD5. And, for me most gutting
of all, it had PRAT. It galls me to say this, but the Krell had better PRAT and pace
than the DVD5. I must say I was very surprised and shocked at the improvement in CD
quality on this player. I had been expecting to hear a bit of a difference, as there
is a substantial difference in price between these two players, £2350 for the DVD5 and
nearer £4600 for the Krell, but I was shocked at how much of an improvement in CD
playback there was.

Now for DVD playback. The Krell has a scaler built in to it already. So, the price
for the Krell above includes the scaler cost. If you were to add in roughly £1000
odd for the supposed Naim scaler, then the Naim now comes out at £3350. The picture
with the scaler in the Krell was noticeably better, but it was not a massive improvement
for me. I think I would say there is something in it between the two players on DVD
playback, but not a massive difference. CD playback is an altogether different matter.

One thing that we found a problem was that the AV2 and Krell seem to use the same IR signals, so Ffwd the Krell would Mute the AV2 at the same time ?

I would love for Naim to try the Krell out and then have the ability to match and
exceed it's capabilities in their next generation equipment.

I'll try an attach a couple of pictures of both machines below. Oops, can't work how to do this.

Cheers,
Roy.
Posted on: 04 April 2006 by Mr Underhill
Hi Roy,

I have not used the Krell. I have had extended auditions of the top of the range Denon and a mid range (2.5k) Meridian, in addition to the DVD5 that I purchased.

In terms of handling the film soundtrack I found that there was arguements in favour of sound steering for both the D and M over the N.

On music I found the Naim to be far and away the best.

If the Krell is better, and everything must be placed within a system context, then it must be good.

People would obviously be wise to test both boxes within their own system before making a purchase.

Interesting write-up.

Martin
Posted on: 05 April 2006 by Neill Ferguson
Dear All

I have been lucky enough to own Meridian and Linn players, I don't rate Denon at all I find them over rated by mags etc.

It must be said however that the Krell is the best CD player I have tried by someway. The Cd reply is outstanding. I take what Roy siad on board about DVD soundtrack but if you sit and watch a whole film you notice the little differences in the film soundtrack and best of all effects seem to move round the room better.

I would love to have the Krell and would buy it in a minute but the price for the scaler HDMI is of putting some £950. It retails at £3,600 without this and is worth the money.

Neill
Posted on: 05 April 2006 by Roy Donaldson
Finally got pictures working I think so,

Naim DVD5:



Krell Showcase:



Cheers,
Roy.
Posted on: 05 April 2006 by Tuan
.. and don't forget this: part of the magic was from the power of Bryston amplification.
Posted on: 05 April 2006 by Mr Underhill
Neill,

I found the CD from the Denon anodyne. The DVD5 did certain things well. So I decided to try the DVD5 with an external DAC, and see if I could get rid of a seperate CD player; my audio being mainly vinyl.

I now use the s/pdif out from the DVD5 into a Benchmark DAC1 - which I find works well. Interestingly the Denon -> DAC1 made no difference.

Do you listen to a lot of CD? Would you be thinking of using the Krell as your CD source?
Is the Krell going to stay? ...or is the DVD5 going to be saved by the price?

PS I enjoyed Serenity at the cinema...Mr W. has a nice turn of phrase.
Posted on: 06 April 2006 by Neill Ferguson
Mr Underhill

I would love to keep the Showcase but the price is off putting and it was more than I had put aside for an upgrade. I will start saving. It will be my main source for Cds I just don't have the room for two systems.

I think I have changed the source two much as it is, of the three the meridian, Linn and the Naim. The linn was highly overpriced. The meridian was very good and with the matching Av pre-amp sounded stunning with movies. The Naim is good and out of all three is best value for money. I just feel that its high time Naim started to work on an AV3, As the Av2 is dated now and there are better on the market.

I don't see the point in having a system for music and another one else were for movies I want one system that does it all very well. I think thats why I have been so knocked out by the Krell.

Going back to Naim if they did start to work on a replacement for the Av2, I would want a better pre amp section, maybe room eq, faster better movement of effects, more of a soundstage.

I like the naim brand I always have and always will, but there are other great companies out there making great hi-fi home cinema, and thats what I like about this hobby is looking at other systems will different brands in them and seeing how they work togeter.

Thanks for posting the pics Roy.

Tuan don't forget about the Chord cables which cost a fair bit too and the Snell speakers which at the money I have been hard pushed to find anything thats any better. However i will say that Bryston amps are the best money can buy. A sweeping statement I know but put quite simply nothing to my ears comes even close.

Neill
Posted on: 08 April 2006 by Tuan
Neil

Could you please post a picture of the Snell speakers. I would like to see and know more about them. Thanks.
Posted on: 10 April 2006 by Neill Ferguson
Roy

Could you post a pic with the speakers in them and let Tuan know your thoughts on them

Neill
Posted on: 10 April 2006 by Roy Donaldson
A picture of Naim's spekaer:



Very nice spekaers, lot's of low down bass in fact I'd strongly depate whether you'd really need a sub or not in here.

Roy.
Posted on: 10 April 2006 by Neill Ferguson
Roy

As you know am having the same thought do I need a sub or not. answers on a post card. Can anyone give me an idea of a sub with low, quick bass.

Neill

Ps Sorry but I feel the N-sub is just to expensive.
Posted on: 10 April 2006 by Richard Dane
Neill,

I have tried various REL and M&K subs for Movies to good effect.

For Music, whether 2 channel or multi-channel sadly they have all fared not so well.

(taking off Naim hat here...)The n-Sub was the first of it's kind to do music well. Now, I know I can be seen to be biased but quite frankly I find the n-Sub light years ahead musically to even the best of the rest.

In that context it's retail price could be considered a bargain... What is it about your experience of the n-sub that makes you feel the opposite?
Posted on: 10 April 2006 by Neill Ferguson
Richard

I have not home Demo'd an N-Sub, with most Naim dealers and am no Naim basher by any means I do like the brand a lot and feel most of the products are good value for money. However even in the Naim dealers words two different ones here that the N-Sub is a little over priced.

For example I can buy a Velodyne 10inch driver with room eq for £750. The new rel r 205 which also uses a 10inch driver comes in at £595. thats a big differnce in prices.

Also as roy mentioned the speakers go very deep and having tried a couple of subs in the system didn't find a big difference to the system. So the question is do I need one or do I save a bit and change the source or do I do as you suggest and get an N-sub into the system.

Neill
Posted on: 13 April 2006 by Mr Underhill
Neill,

Couldn't resist the Showcase then?

M
Posted on: 14 April 2006 by Neill Ferguson
Mr Underhill

Would have one, but need to find buyer for DVD5 and if I can there will be one in the rack. However if I can't sell DVD5 a sub it might well be. Been strugling to find something I want to change, speaker wise.

Neill
Posted on: 14 April 2006 by Adam Meredith
quote:
However even in the Naim dealers words two different ones here that the N-Sub is a little over priced.


quote:
However even in the Naim dealers words two different ones here that the N-Sub is a little over priced.


A refreshingly unbiased opinion - although I believe Velodyne may be imported by a company in Edinburgh.
Posted on: 18 April 2006 by Neill Ferguson
Adam

That would be redline who also sell Moon Audio that other brand eh. I don't think the dealers are saying the product is bad just that there are better Subs out there for the money. Its a subject am no expert on as I have never owned one and have only home demo'd one or two which I didn't like to much.

It is also very strange to note that the same dealers have been selling of there Naim AV kit and now sell Linn and Arcam. Good choices now for the customer.

So still no money spent, as yet. going to take things slow and look into subs a bit first and add the one I really want.

Neill