The Dream Of Gerontius

EMI @ 1965 (stereo)

Janet Baker contralto
Richard Lewis tenor
Kim Borg bass

Halle Choir and Sheffield Philharmonic Chorus
and The Ambrosian Singers
The Halle Orchestra with Sir John Barbirolli conducting

~<>~

My 2 LP box set version of this has been sitting in the cupboard, and just as dusty as the day I purchased it over a year ago…
Well, I have only just this morning carefully cleaned them, and they’ve come up quite minty looking and reading to go, so will play them later today after I catch up with some much needed beauty sleep : )

(...no weird dreams of Demons, or Souls in Purgatory i hope! )

Debs

Not for everyone. I like some Elgar, and saw this performed by The Salomon Orchestra in Winchester Cathedral about ten years ago (my then partner on viola).

Although I liked the Prelude, I found the following Catholic guilt and unworthyness unbearable.

The music was fine, but the endless 'I am so unworthy' lyrics just made me want to give Elgar a slap and tell him to lighten up.

Each to their own, I listen to plenty of miserable music which others would find just as unbearable, but I am afraid that this masterwork by Elgar drove me to distraction.

I can say that I went to a fantastic no smoking pub (1998? - before the ban) with many of the orchestra afterwards, and had a lovely end to the evening.

After our triumph with Carmina Burana when I was a boy treble, our School Choral Society followed up with Gerontius. I hated it at the time (but not as much as the next one, Elijah, which I still don't like) but adore Gerontius now. I have the 2000 Rattle/CBSO/Baker/Shirley-Quirk etc.

I haven't listened to it in a long time. I had a recording (never saw it performed live and I assume performances are rare) on Lp. I think it was Malcolm Sargent's from the 1940's ? At any rate, is was very nice, an interesting record. I didn't bother with the text to much, as to me, it was just a sound coming out of the speakers which I liked or found interesting.

I suppose if the text is about people going on about being unworthy of God ect. ect., then at least that would be an anachronism. One of the more charming ones from a bygone era.

I woundn't mind having that old Sargent recording again, but I am sure there are more modern ones available that are much better.


Bro

Sargent's recording with the greatest of recorded tenors in the role of Gerontius - Heddle Nash - was made in April 1945 and is available on Testament.

http://www.testament.co.uk/sho...rch.aspx?q=Gerontius

ATB from George

I have been to performances of it, I have bought "superb" recordings of it, I have tried with it - I just don't get it! Bores me rigid. There must be something wrong with me.

FlyMe

...there is nothing wrong with you! We are just Unworthy!

Debs

I think my disliking it was possibly influenced by the lyrics being printed in the programme, so I was following those while hearing the piece for the first time.

I do have a recording of it, but have not been greatly tempted to try it again. Perhaps sometime soon, but not in an Elgar mood at the moment.

I never developed any affection for this work.

quote:

Originally posted by GFFJ:

Never-the-less it remains a seminal work that ushered in the new era ....

George,

Could you elaborate on this ? Generally, Elgar was viewed as very much as a man of his time, or indeed, to many, a reactionary. What in particular strikes you as being innovative in Gerontius ? Many feel that, though his music is very beautiful, he was the English version of Brahms.


Bro

No, Elgar was descended musically from the Wagner tradition. Elgar [and I personally cannot agree with this view at all] was very dismissive of Brahms, commenting without any attempt at effect that "old Brahms gets the triangle out when he gets excited!" Only two times in the Scherzo in Fourth Symphony and Haydn Variations, which Elgar well knew.

The advantge Elgar has for me over Wagner is that this his music is the work of a man [how ever lowly in birth] who created music of spontaneous emotional strength - love it or hate it, and that is certainly the response here on this thread. As Furtwangler observed, the whole of Wagner's music works on the surface, but what a surface! In other words a grand sound without much depth. Elgar also makes a grand sound but it is heartfelt.

Perhaps the poetry of of Cardinal John Henry Newman [The Dream Of Gerntius] is steeped in Catholic imagery, Marian references, and the certain faith in repentance and forgiveness of Sin.

I do see that this very distinct standpoint is going to be more easily accepted in Catholic countries [ort by those disposed to see the humanity in the spiritual side of Catholicism], but it is for all that a pataently generous and redeeming faith. Of course Elgar wrote much great secular work where no religious imagery may cause the listener some problem.

Two Symphonies, and the Violin Concerto as well as the Cello Concerto. And of course the marvelously open "Enigma Variations," make splendid introductions.

All that sparked this thread was that I listened to the Dream and wanted to share my enthusiasm for it!

ATB from George

PS: Technically Elgar took the complex chromatic soundworld of Tristan, and gave it a choral setting. It was very difficult for the early performers to grasp quite how advanced were its demands in almost shifting the diatonioc to the realms of atonality! That is why the early performances were so poor and poorly received. It took a performance in Dusseldorf a year or so late rto convince the English that perhaps we had a composer of the equal of the young Richard Strauss, after he refered to Elgar asthe english Meister, and the leading progressive. He was at the Dusseldorf performance.

That's interesting. In the 60's when Ken Russell made his infamous biographical picture of Elgar, the general consensus was that he was an old forgotten reactionary (link to review). But I suppose it depends on your perspective. Mahler's 9th, and Elgar's First symphonies were written a year apart, but it is the former that seems much more harmonically daring. Let's leave out Dubussy, Ravel and Schoenberg, who were all musically active at this point.

I must have another listen to Gerontius. Time has faded my memory (it has probably been over 20 years or so).

Regards

Bro

Dear BB,

After Geronius, and because of the devastating failure of its UK premiere [only rectified by the Dusseldorf performance] Elgar retrenched - a somewhat bitter man as a result - and produced rather more conventional music in the two symphonies and two concertos, whilst the Enigma Variations was rather conventional, before the off-shoot with Gerontius.

Only in Flasfaff - A Symphonic Study [apart from the Cello Concerto, his last major work for Orchestra] - would Elgar set off once again into the chromatic probings of the world of near atonality. And that work failed as well on its premiere. Unlike Gerontius [and unfairly IMO] it has never become a recognised work of genius.

Falstaff may yet be recognised as the classic Masterwok for Elgar, IMO

ATB from George

I think "Falstaff" is Elgar's most interesting and original work by far. The rest - save symphony no 2 and the violin concerto, leaves me pretty cold.

Sister xx

quote:

Originally posted by Sister E.:
I think "Falstaff" is Elgar's most interesting and original work by far. ...

Sister xx

I agree with this. Elgar was making a leap, and one that was not understood by the stuffy English Edwardian audience for sure.

I do hope that time may see it gain its proper place in the repertoire.

I actually do enjoy a good part of Elgar's output, but have times when it is about the last type of music I want to listen to as well! Depends on the day!

But I enjoy Falstaff. I have the November 1931 recording with the LSO under the composer, and the 1950 LPO set under Boult, and find both equally illuminating of the music. Boult's later stereo recording seemed much less fine to me and has gone from my collection. There are sometimes splendid live performences, and the last one I heard was on the Radio from a BBC Prom in the last few years.

In my view it diserves to be performed in the London Winter season from time to time.

ATB from George