Where has innovation in popular music gone?

Posted by: JamieL on 23 November 2008

I will try and write this without prejudice, as far as I can, in the hope that others here can point me towards what I have been missing, or to hear if others have the same frustration I have with music over the last few years.

Looking at rock music, popular mainstream, and underground music from the last decade, I find myself very disappointed by what appears to currently be a lack of innovation. Perhaps I have missed what is going on, but I can not name a single album form this decade that could not have been made ten years before.

I am not being critical of good song writing, and am happy that there are many albums being released which are getting a lot positive reaction. My concern is that beyond songs, particularly in the underground, or what was once called indie, there seems to be no pushing of boundaries, or experimenting with new forms of music.

I am a white, middle aged, middle class male, and it is very possible that there is plenty going on, and it is just that I am not hearing it, or more probably not being receptive to it. I am not particularly a fan of rap, or predominantly lyrical music, so perhaps plenty of innovation is happening there, and I am unaware of it.

I am also aware that on first hearing something new, often unpolished, that it can sound objectionable, and it is only through acquiring a new taste that it becomes palatable. Such was the case with techno with me, which I found unlistenable at first, but have since developed a great love for.

I am also aware that technological changes have often fuelled change in music, or the arts in general, and that between the 1950's and 1990's the instruments available to musicians were changing far more than now.

I am also not asking that retro, or development on current music forms be abandoned by artists. I am just looking for something innovative beyond the mainstream, to infuse some fresh ideas.

Here are a few albums that I feel could not have been made ten years earlier. Some I like, some I dislike greatly, some have stood the test of time, and others sound terribly dated, however, I would say they are definitively of their time.

The Beatles - 'Sgt. Peppers Lonely Hearts Club Band 1967'

Yes - 'Close to the Edge' 1972

Kraftwerk - 'Autobahn' 1975

The Sex Pistols - 'Never Mind the Bollocks ...' 1977

David Bowie - 'Low' 1977

Duran Duran - 'Rio' 1982

The Smiths - 'The Queen is Dead' 1986

Prince - 'Sign of the Times' 1987

The Pet Shop Boys - 'Actually' 1987

Public Enemy - 'It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back' 1988

Nine Inch Nails - 'The Downward Spiral' 1994

The Prodigy - 'The Fat of the Land' 1997

Madonna - 'Ray of Light' 1998

I realise that this is a mostly white, and mostly middle class acceptable list of artists, and lacks any perspective beyond the English speaking world (a hint of German if you buy the Kraftwerk imports).

Well, please prove me wrong. Jamie

Posted on: 23 November 2008 by u5227470736789439

Dear James,

Could there be a parallel with the world of classical music, which has had a problem of being both novel and accepted by the mainstream audience for over a century?

Popular music, Rock music, Jazz, and other sub-sets of popular genres have reached a state of maturity, where writing what would once have been innovative now seems commonplace.

After Mozart no one can write like he did ... for fear of being labelled derivative ...

All art-forms become more intellectual and difficult with time, and any given audience starts from a position of being fairly conservative with a small "c" and with time it ages and become more so.

I don't think that modern "young" culture itself seems as daring [possibly as angry and revolutionary] as it was once partly because though the inequalities of modern society are at least as wide as they ever were, the majority of the less well off can still afford the mind numbing medium of the television, which is probably the drug of the masses that Marx once thought that religion was, and also computers, which have gone a long way to unsocialising the young as well.

So the whole effort of starting a band and being original is not taken up in anything like the way it once was. Out of a much smaller contemporary pool of talent [because people are doing other things] of potential innovators, the results speak for themselves.

In a world where music is almost universally regarded as aural wall-paper, then the supply, in the absense of real innovation, is dominated by big money and record companies with established distribution systems. These organisation feed the small c conservatism of the audience with the big C consertism of and caution [with regard to challenging innovation of the requirement for a return on Capital], so even if there are startling examples of innovation about, then these are strangled both by the audience apathy and not bothering to search them out, and the fact that the recording organisations would certainly rather play safe., and guarantee their profits.

Most of the modern mainstream seems to stem from a tradition that took in Cliff Richard than the Sex {Pistols nowadays!

And the mainstream audience laps it up.

Even some of the major recent success stories - as I see them at least - such as the Killers or whatever seem anodine to a fault compared to the great successes of previous decades.

I think that the crsis pf production [of new innovative music that never the less retained audience interest] that struck in the classics at the time of Johannes Brahms is finding its parallel today in the music of popular culture.

This a reflection of an audience that largely does not want to be challenged, and would require innovattion of reaql genius proportions to change.

ATB from George

Posted on: 23 November 2008 by BigH47

Arcade Fire, Rodrigo and Gabriella seem to have a new angle. As always the main innovation is in the minority acts, which a good few of your list were.
No new instruments seem to have been invented for the new acts to use, a lot of the first list were using instruments/techniques invented for them.

Posted on: 23 November 2008 by mikeeschman

quote:
Originally posted by GFFJ:
Dear James,

After Mozart no one can write like he did ... for fear of being labelled derivative ...

So the whole effort of starting a band and being original is not taken up in anything like the way it once was. Out of a much smaller contemporary pool of talent [because people are doing other things] of potential innovators, the results speak for themselves.

This a reflection of an audience that largely does not want to be challenged, and would require innovattion of reaql genius proportions to change.

ATB from George

1 - beethoven is derivative of mozart? messiaen? there is a lot of originality in the work of many composers since mozart.

2 - orchestras are at the highest level of technical perfection ever - young players are doing that.

3- the audience is less knowledgeable. they got less musical education and have more diversions to distract them.

Posted on: 23 November 2008 by droodzilla

Oh dear, another "things ain't what they used to be" thread!

I don't make much effort to track pop/rock music these days, but I'm sure young people haven't stopped being creative. Occasionally a pop song will blow me away - e.g. Sugababes' collaboration with Richard X on "Freak Like Me", sounded quite gobsmacking, and absolutely of its time when it was released a few years ago. Some Girls Aloud tracks are unusually inventive and tricksy for mainstream hits, "Biology" being the obvious example. More "serious" artists that have grabbed my attention lately include Sufjan Stevens and Kings of Convenience. How to judge whether any of this music could have been made ten years ago, I do not know!

I buy and listen to a lot of classical music, but this is old stuff, almost by default. I don't buy much contemporary classical music for the same reason I don't buy contemporary novels - I prefer to wait ten, twenty years to see what passes the test of time.

Jazz is my main passion at the moment - contemporary European jazz, in particular. To suggest that there is no innovation in this area is plain wrong. Just check out almost anything from the ECM label, or the young German trio [em]. French clarinettist Louis Sclavis recently blew me away in Ko:ln with his new trio - they played with such ferocity, edge and inventiveness, I felt I could finally imagine what it would have been like to see the Sex Pistols in '77.

In short, I don't recognise the gloomy picture you paint. I have never been more excited about new music - which is saying a lot, as I've always been passionate about it.

Of course, it helps that I now have a Naim system to play all this fantastic music on!

Regards
Nigel

Posted on: 23 November 2008 by droodzilla

I have mixed feelings about them, but Radiohead is an obvious example of a mainstream rock band that has consistently challenged itself to innovate. So obvious, I missed them in my first post!

Posted on: 23 November 2008 by manicatel

I'm sure there is still innovation within the pop/rock area, but within the very mainstream area, style & content is very commercially dictated, hence one boy band comes along, then several other clones follow. etc.
Altough not to my taste, several recent acts seem to be highlighting singing in regional accents, eg the streets, arctic monkeys, lilly allen. OK its not revoloutionary, & maybe its just downright poor, but its fairly fresh & is maybe a new version of street commentary/ folk poetry.
As for Jazz, EST, esbjorn Svensson Trio (RIP) did seem to have a pretty new blend of noises, whilst steering clear enough of the "free jazz" label.
Matt.

Posted on: 23 November 2008 by u5227470736789439

quote:
Originally posted by mikeeschman:

1 - beethoven is derivative of mozart? messiaen? there is a lot of originality in the work of many composers since mozart.

2/3...

Dear Mike,

Certainly neither of these were derivative of Mozart. Both were innovators, and both have entered the concert repertoire in secure fashion.

But I do wonder who, among the contemporary "classical" composers stand a chance of gaining the sure foothold of Beethoven or Messian in the future.

I suspect with each generation this gets harder to do.

I agree that orchestral standards have generally imporoved, especially at the provincial [formerly second rank] level. The training of young players in formal colleges has led to a significantly greater depth of very competent musicians nowadays.

And I do agree that music of all tpes and art in general is frequently less well understood than in past generations. Elitism is often used as a derogatory word these days, in the sense that the elite is often despised as wishing to hold the fort against the plebian classes, if you see what I am getting at. The aspiration to join any elite [which always involves work and gaining knowledge and understand] is now not considered aspirational, and the current trend is to lionise "celebrities" whose sole talent seems to be self-promotion in spite of having exactly no talent!

Education and the quality of televsion [see my first post in the thread] have much to answer for in respect of inculcating a form of inverted snobbery about understanding anything at all in greater depth than the completely superficial.

This has its implications as much for popular culture as the more elitist sorts, and this is showing itself quite markedly in all the arts including popular music in its various genres.

ATB from George

Posted on: 23 November 2008 by mikeeschman

quote:
Originally posted by GFFJ:
But I do wonder who, among the contemporary "classical" composers stand a chance of gaining the sure foothold of Beethoven or Messian in the future.
ATB from George

wonder and hope. nothing would be better.

Posted on: 23 November 2008 by Guido Fawkes

quote:
The Sex Pistols - 'Never Mind the Bollocks ...' 1977

Hi Jamie

I don't think this album was particularly original in 1977 - I don't mean it was bad, I just mean as the great late Kevin Coyne said of it in Dynamite Daze - seen it all, seen it all before.

I'd strongly recommend Kick Out The Jams and Back In The USA by the wonderful MC5 and the two albums that London group Third World War made in 1970/71.

quote:
Kraftwerk - 'Autobahn' 1975

Now I love the music of Kraftwerk, but once again I'd refer you to electronic music pioneer Delia Derbshire and in particular her elpee Electrosonic - of course, Delia is most famous for the theme from Dr Who, but she created all manner of truly wonderful electronic sounds. I'd also suggest Zero Time by Tonto's Expanding Head Band.

My point, other than taking the opportunity to recommend several great elpees, is to suggest that most of what we think of as original has been done before. For me some recent albums that I thought were fresh and original were Oh My Darling by Bashia Bulat, The Bairns by Rachel Unthank and the Winterset and Burlesque by Bellowhead. I also find Blackmore's Night refreshingly original in a sort of medieval way. However, the most startling original music I've heard during the last 20 years or so, were the two albums from Scott Walker: Tilt and The Drift. Scott's biggest influence is that rock n roll stalwart Jean Sibelius.

I do believe HMHB were like no other group, but this is largely because of the songwriting rather than the music - Nigel Blackwell has said as much himself. They even copy some of the basic melody lines for their songs, it is the presentation and lyrics that hit home.

It's probably because I don't understand it, but I find Rap and Hip-Hop sounds very dated - mostly sounds like what Frank Zappa did on his 1974 elpee Apostrophe - only Frank just did it once, with humour and moved on.

quote:
Oh dear, another "things ain't what they used to be" thread!

And what's wrong with that? I'd like to know: Please click here to hear Max make my point.

Don't worry 2009 is going to be an extraordinary year and I just know the most startling original album will emerge that will unite lovers of classical and popular in their admiration.

ATB Rotf

Posted on: 23 November 2008 by JamieL

Thanks for the replies.

Certainly Radiohead - 'Kid A', and The Streets - 'Original Pirate Material' are positive examples I had not considered.

I also think that The White Stripes might also be another example.

I have been very dubious about 'The Arctic Monkeys', yes they do sing in a Yorkshire accent, but their music offers little that bands in the late 70's haven't already covered. Their songs may be very good, but not particularly new.

Part of the reason I have been so frustrated, is that playing in a band a couple of years ago (old guy hidden behind the drum kit), the group was so against innovation, and just wanted to make music to a formula. The other bands on the small club circuit seemed the same.

I also remember how fantastic it was to go to a festival like 'The Tribal Gathering' in the 90's and see so many artists at their peak, or at Glastonbury on the various dedicated stages.

I believe 'The Guardian' said of this summer's festivals, Glastonbury in particular "We need a cull of these career orientated 'indie' bands filling the lineups"

I am not despondent about music, I have seen some amazing gigs this year, and bought some great new albums. I don't think song writing is in bad way, quite the opposite, my favourite of the year being Mark Kozelek's (Sun Kil Moon) 'April', not far in style from Sufjan Stevens.

ROTF
The influences you list are very valid, the albums I listed are not necessarily startlingly original within their genre, but did focus what was happing at the time.

As a Peter Hammill fan I am quite aware of the influence of him, MC5 , New York Dolls, and others on The Sex Pistols, but never the less, 'Never Mind the Bollocks ..' as a album, is something that is very hard to imagine being recorded in 1967.

I also agree with the strength of song writing in the artists you mention from this last year.

Jamie

Posted on: 23 November 2008 by u5227470736789439

One question I ask is this:

Why is innovation valued nowadays more than inspiration?

I would be quite as happy to have a few memorable melodies allied to poetic words reflecting the ways of dealing with life's merry dance as the prospect of some new song formula with the current trend to minimal melodic invention, inarticulate words expressing trite inanities without any apparent message of hope [or even desolation].

One of the greatest composers was Joseph Haydn, and he said one of the great benefits of spending most his career away from Vienna [his nearest great cultural centre] was that it allowed him to be unoriginal on a daily basis!

Of course he was being somewhat contrary, in that he was an innovator, and established two forms of music still currently emplyed by composers: The Symphony and the String Quartet.

It may even be arguable whether he actually even invented these two recognisable forms, but he certainly brought them to an early state of exemplary perfection.

Beethoven was certaqinly prepared to takes Haydn's clear ground plans and fill with new inspirations!

This is what I mean by daring to be unoriginal. There is no reason to try to re-invent the wheel by adopting new instruments of formal musical structures. The verse-chorus structure for popular songs has a huge mileage in it yet, and what in my view is needed are lyricists of real poetic imagination and melodists to cloth these lyrics in new inspirations which are memorable.

To simply dress the unmemorable or trite in a new "innovative" forms is dry and valueless, and represents much of the crisis in modern music whether in the so called classical or popular spheres.

ATB from George

Posted on: 23 November 2008 by Lontano

quote:
Originally posted by droodzilla:
Jazz is my main passion at the moment - contemporary European jazz, in particular. To suggest that there is no innovation in this area is plain wrong. Just check out almost anything from the ECM label, or the young German trio [em]. French clarinettist Louis Sclavis recently blew me away in Ko:ln with his new trio - they played with such ferocity, edge and inventiveness, I felt I could finally imagine what it would have been like to see the Sex Pistols in '77.

In short, I don't recognise the gloomy picture you paint. I have never been more excited about new music - which is saying a lot, as I've always been passionate about it.

Of course, it helps that I now have a Naim system to play all this fantastic music on!

Regards
Nigel

I agree. Of course there is the innovative music of E.S.T who were taking the music new places and bringing the rock audience over as well.

Two innovative albums from this year worth trying on ECM are

and this

Posted on: 23 November 2008 by dsteady

This reminds me of a debate I used to have with a friend over Modernism in writing. I claimed that D.H. Lawrence was as much a modernist as Joyce or Woolf. He wouldn't agree, saying Lawrence's writing style was much too conventional. My point was that when you look at what the characters are saying, and how their words reflect the world they inhabit, then Lawrence's modernism was easily apparent -- and a lot more subtle, imo.

I think it is similar with music. We expect the sound to be the main driver of innovation, and often look over any innovation that is indicated in the lyrics, and their context within our present world.

Here is a list of bands and albums that I'd say are very innovative -- some musically, some lyrically, and many both. Check them out:

Wilco -- Yankee Hotel Foxtrot. This album is innovative in both in form and substance, but even Wilco's less exalted albums recently (Ghost is Born, Sky Blue Sky) fit my criterium for innovation insofar as they have something of substance in the singcraft (like Lawrence's characters) that reflects the modern age.

Radiohead -- OK Computer/Kid A. Of Course.

Deerhoof -- Milkman. This a san Francisco art-rock band. I'll let you decide if they're truly innovative. I think they are, and very much "of their time" although I don't think equates innovative, but that's another story.

Tortoise -- Tortoise (and many others) The fun thing about Tortoise is if you follow many of the individual members' solo careers it opens up an entire world of Chicago based innovative music. (See: Jeff Parker and The Chicago Underground Duo)

Yo La Tengo -- And Nothing Turns Itself Inside Out/Summer Sun

Sam Prekop -- Sam Prekop/Who's Your New Professor. Like Tortoise, Prekop hails from Chicago and is the cofounder of Sea and Cake, another band worth investigating. Prekop's songcraft is more form over substance and he admits as much; but I love it, and his sound is wonderfully layered.(also see: Archer Prewitt's "Wilderness")

The Battles -- Mirrored. This should satisfy any latter-day prog-rock yearnings.

If you're in the UK then
Boomkat is a great site to source many of these albums.

Enjoy,
Daniel

Posted on: 23 November 2008 by Lontano

quote:
Originally posted by Lontano:

Review in today's Independent

Trumpeter Henriksen – whose playing invokes the breathy whisper of a Japanese flute – confirms his status as the most compelling improviser on the planet with 12 tracks recorded in Kristiansand.

This is edgily ambient mood music conceived on a grand scale, where the gobsmackingly sublime is almost a minimum requirement. There are full-on experimental pieces; trip-hoppy pieces with beats; and pieces featuring David Sylvian reading his poems. All you can do is gape

Posted on: 23 November 2008 by Wolf2

I've certainly in the past been more adventuresome but don't have the resources to keep buying new stuff. Now I've settled into enjoying tried and true, and people who are comfortable in their style. I'm sure I'll come upon some new stuff once in a while that will take me away.

Posted on: 23 November 2008 by Whizzkid

In the 60's and 70's music was not as accessable or as wide spread in genre as it is now so the cream did rise to the top as you had to look for something different to sell records in those days. Nowdays the major labels put things into demographics and aim music a certain types of individuals and if something sells they all just rush out and try to create something similar, its business after all. So you have a glut of male singer songwriters, pretty boy bands or melodic indie bands. For me the only way to find good characterful interesting music is to look outside the fringes of the mainstream at the underground and the independents who can afford to take risks and in fact want to take risks for the love of the music and not just to make a pound note and please the shareholders.

Someone said to me the other day that it all started as just about the music then it became the music business and now its just a business. I think that sums it up for the mainstream music labels and they are suffering as a result of their short sightedness and looking for a quick profit.

Dean..

Posted on: 23 November 2008 by JamieL

quote:
Originally posted by Whizzkid:
In the 60's and 70's music was not as accessable or as wide spread in genre as it is now so the cream did rise to the top as you had to look for something different to sell records in those days. Nowdays the major labels put things into demographics and aim music a certain types of individuals and if something sells they all just rush out and try to create something similar, its business after all. So you have a glut of male singer songwriters, pretty boy bands or melodic indie bands. For me the only way to find good characterful interesting music is to look outside the fringes of the mainstream at the underground and the independents who can afford to take risks and in fact want to take risks for the love of the music and not just to make a pound note and please the shareholders.

Someone said to me the other day that it all started as just about the music then it became the music business and now its just a business. I think that sums it up for the mainstream music labels and they are suffering as a result of their short sightedness and looking for a quick profit.

Dean..

I quite agree with looking outside the mainstream, the record labels behind techno in the 90's were nearly all independents, as were the labels who promoted grunge.

Dsteady.
Thanks for the list, those definitely look like some interesting options to explore.

With suggestions like Arcade Fire, it might also seem to suggest that without technological changes in the instruments pushing things forward, then changes to the arrangement and line-up of the band offer new ways of changing the sound of the music.

The suggestions for Arve Henriksen are also interesting in a different way. Despite my examples of albums that were definitive of the era, the 80's did not offer a great deal of appeal to me through rock, and I instead listened to, or saw live much more jazz.

Another area I have explored a little more this decade has been metal, and although Tool 'Lateralus' (2001) is one of my very favourite albums ever, I can't honestly say that I think it could not have been made in either the 70's or 90's.

Jamie

Posted on: 23 November 2008 by u5227470736789439

quote:
Originally posted by Whizzkid:

...

Someone said to me the other day that it all started as just about the music then it became the music business and now its just a business. I think that sums it up for the mainstream music labels and they are suffering as a result of their short sightedness and looking for a quick profit.

Dean..

Dear Dean,

Don't you think that really recording companies tend to be started by A&R men, and as these companies get superstructures to support their aims, that they grow a sort of beaurocracy, and production cost base developed off the backs of the success of these original Artist and Repertoire people.

The original A&R men get old and retire. Then the accountant beurocracy, now responsible to straight share investors, appoint more accountants as the replacement A&R men.

This works for a while as the same artists continue with contracts already established, but the new real A&R men are usually to be found again in newer, smaller companies ...

So that there is almost a lifespan for an adventurous record company, either before it is taken over by a major or becomes one itself, and looses it edge.

EMI when it was HMV, and English Columbia had remarkable success attracting the best classical artists right from the start to the 1950s or even 60s, but after that many of the best musicians were to be found working for independants like Hyperion, Lyrita, BIS or other much less financially dominated companies ...

Seems to me that EMI used to have a tremendous popular label in the form of Parlophone, but as the need to feed the voracious appetite for share holder dividends became paramount they ossified into a company that would attract "celbrity" names with huge fees [like Mariah Carey or whoever] but no longer had the on the ground people to find another real band like the Beatles, looking for a start and really long relationship with a label ...

The problem is that capitalism has different aims and interests than the artistic, and so eventually the dissonance leads to ossification and a lack of adventure, which ultimately corrupts the high artistic aims of the founders, however much the accountants running the company protest otherwise. It is inevitable ...

One hope I have, in all fields of music in recorded form, is that downloads of music will allow for success without the majors ever getting their corrupting mits on the best artists.

There is hope yet! ATB from George

Posted on: 23 November 2008 by dsteady

quote:
Originally posted by munch:
I have this double vinyl album.

Daniel
Prog,I dont think so.

Busted.

I never really know what people mean when they say prog, except that they tend to like bands like Genesis, Yes and Rush. To me Battles has that sort of bright, super-tight, cloyingly virtuosic sound, but with a modern, punkish treatment. Hence, "latter-day prog." I have the double vinyl too.

Posted on: 23 November 2008 by Lontano

quote:
Originally posted by dsteady:

I never really know what people mean when they say prog, except that they tend to like bands like Genesis, Yes and Rush.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_rock

Posted on: 23 November 2008 by dsteady

from the Wikipedia:
"Progressive rock songs either avoid common popular music song structures of verse-chorus-bridge, or blur the formal distinctions by extending sections or inserting musical interludes, often with exaggerated dynamics to heighten contrast between sections. Classical forms are often inserted or substituted, sometimes yielding entire suites, building on the traditional medleys of earlier rock bands. Progressive rock songs also often have extended instrumental passages, marrying the classical solo tradition with the improvisational traditions of jazz and psychedelic rock. All of these tend to add length to progressive rock songs, which may last longer than twenty minutes."

I think cloyingly virtuosic was about right then.

dn'l

Posted on: 23 November 2008 by Guido Fawkes

quote:
Originally posted by dsteady:

I never really know what people mean when they say prog, except that they tend to like bands like Genesis, Yes and Rush.

Progressive rock is an ambitious, eclectic style of rock from late 60s England that peaked in popularity in the early 70s and continues to this day. It drew its influences from classical and jazz whereas American rock came from rhythm & blues and country. Prog-rock moved away from the limits of radio friendly rock and pop aiming at the sophistication of classical music. It's admired for its complexity, requiring a high level of musical virtuosity to perform; critics derided it as pompous and self-indulgent because it's hard to define in a single way. Major acts (Emerson Lake and Palmer, Soft Machine, Caravan, Pink Floyd, King Crimson and the Electric Light Orchestra) do not sound alike. Hawkwind, Deep Purple and Tangerine Dream may belong to the genre; I vote they do. Along with folk and psych, it's my favourite kind of contemporary music. I believe Delia Derbyshire wrote the first ever piece of prog-rock (Dr Who Theme) - strangely the BBC credited it to Ron Grainer because they felt his name more credible - Ron wanted it credited to Delia.

ATB Rotf

I don't think I've ever heard anything by Rush and there is no truth in the rumour I was Seen By My Mates Coming Out Of A Styx Gig.

Posted on: 24 November 2008 by Guido Fawkes

quote:
Seen By My Mates Coming Out Of A Styx Gig

Track 3

Styx Gig (Seen by My Mates Coming Out of A)

The HMHB song references among other things

Styx One of the American bands of the 70s like Boston, Foreigner, REO Speedwagon, etc that all sounded alike and thus could be avoided like the plague.

Strawbs Excellent pop group of '70s, going again now (with Richard Huson still intact) with a "The" prefixing their name.

Sub Pop Seattle based label that released a lot of early grunge stuff like (American) Nirvana*. Their real claim to fame is the way they got their music out through a subscription service. You sent them $30 and they sent you one single a month on interestingly coloured vinyl with 3-4 tracks.

Hudson-Ford A singing duo from the 70s, they were an offshoot of the Strawbs ("Part of the Union", etc.). Their one hit was "Pick Up The Pieces" There was also the romantic classic "Nice Legs, Shame About the Face" (issued as The Monks).

ATB Rotf

* American Nirvana rather than the real group Nirvana. The real group were of course fronted by Patrick Campbell Lyons and Alex Spyropoulos; they released the amazing Story of Simon Simopath in 1967, which contained We Can Help You, which The Alan Bown had a big hit with; Nirvana's solitary hit record was Rainbow Chaser, which was also featured on the Island sampler Nice Enough To Eat.

Posted on: 24 November 2008 by BigH47

I quite like Styx.

Posted on: 24 November 2008 by Guido Fawkes

quote:
Originally posted by BigH47:
I quite like Styx.

Don't think I've ever heard them - I was just quoting from HMHB discography analysis. I added the note about Nirvana.