Technology choice for future Naim Mediaplayer/Streamer

Spot on. I just want a high (sound) quality streamer to go between a storage device and the naim DAC. Wireless and cable connections; ability to stream internet radio; an optional remote control that shows track info and album art; able to connect to a PC or external HDD directly. Doesn't need its own DAC or amp.

quote:

Originally posted by Jo Sharp:
Spot on. I just want a high (sound) quality streamer to go between a storage device and the naim DAC. Wireless and cable connections; ability to stream internet radio; an optional remote control that shows track info and album art; able to connect to a PC or external HDD directly. Doesn't need its own DAC or amp.

naim have produced a dac after years of saying that it is not required. i agree, the first company to produce a media player with only dig out/ maybe line output at the right price will have a winner, it should need to be a linn prices either. a cute without amplifier/radio would do. got the dac waiting for the unit

My feeling - Not so much the UpNp player at fault but the various UpNP Server software packages available and in use. Offering different features and various levels of reliability. The performance of some wireless equipment leaves a little to be desired as well.

With the uniti range expanding we are now seeing the bigger picture that Naim are aiming for and with the HDX/NS0x range now being UpNP servers as well, the jigsaw is forming.

The biggest headache I experienced with the Uniti was finding a suitable UpNP server software package to use with it...the wireless transmission has been faultless for us but I did aways think that a Naim recommended or supplied UpNP server software package would of been extremely helpful, initially at least.

quote:

Originally posted by PureHifi:
My feeling - Not so much the UpNp player at fault but the various UpNP Server software packages available and in use. Offering different features and various levels of reliability. The performance of some wireless equipment leaves a little to be desired as well.

With the uniti range expanding we are now seeing the bigger picture that Naim are aiming for and with the HDX/NS0x range now being UpNP servers as well, the jigsaw is forming.

The biggest headache I experienced with the Uniti was finding a suitable UpNP server software package to use with it...the wireless transmission has been faultless for us but I did aways think that a Naim recommended or supplied UpNP server software package would of been extremely helpful, initially at least.

I guess that could be well so, but the experience is based on the combination of the whole, not only on the quality of one part.

The U of UPnP is not so Universal yet.

The fact that also the network components (router esp.) seem to play such a big role, means to me that the used networking technology (upnp-streaming) is as yet very vulnerable.

The HDX/NSx technology uses cifs (among others) to connect to NAS/networked storage solutions. This is of a lower more basic level and much, much more mature technology. It can hardly ever be at fault. In either solution the network usage and performance can have influence on the signal availability/stability which is exactly what the NAS-test tool is testing.

So still I would like to see a mediaplayer/streamer develop from the HDX, not in the least because reports are that the HDX performs at the highest level in combination with the DAC + PS.

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aleg

The uniti is a fantastic product but has to except its part of the blame, I am not prepared to except that its just server software which seems happy to deliver to PS3s without issue.

And yes I would agree, UPNP is not the way forward the HDX method seems to have more legs IMO.

quote:

Originally posted by rich46:

quote:

Originally posted by Jo Sharp:
Spot on. I just want a high (sound) quality streamer to go between a storage device and the naim DAC. Wireless and cable connections; ability to stream internet radio; an optional remote control that shows track info and album art; able to connect to a PC or external HDD directly. Doesn't need its own DAC or amp.

naim have produced a dac after years of saying that it is not required. i agree, the first company to produce a media player with only dig out/ maybe line output at the right price will have a winner, it should need to be a linn prices either. a cute without amplifier/radio would do. got the dac waiting for the unit

It's not a coincidence that this happened with the advent of HiDef and standard def downloads. Format drives the players.

quote:

Originally posted by Aleg:
I would like to vent my preference to Naim R&D that they develop a Naim mediaplayer by taking superfluous parts (pre-amp- and DAC-sections) from the HDX and turn into a slimmed mediaplayer.

aleg

Completely agree. Requirements are, in priority order for me, the ability to:

• Reliably wirelessly stream music in the usual formats from NAS to a DAC
  
• Stream internet radio, possible DAB
  
• Some means of selecting what I am listening to either on a remote or a front screen
  
• Rip CDs properly (though I can easily live with EAC)
  

I don't need an onboard DAC nor amplification. I don't need multi-room support. Though perhaps a longer term 'nice to have' might be a kind of Music server. But that is starting to sound a bit like a Sonos!

NS01?

Ticks all of his requirements - apart from points 1 & 2...But hey, 2 out of 4 ain't bad !

quote:

Originally posted by MartinCA:

quote:

Originally posted by Aleg:
I would like to vent my preference to Naim R&D that they develop a Naim mediaplayer by taking superfluous parts (pre-amp- and DAC-sections) from the HDX and turn into a slimmed mediaplayer.

aleg

Completely agree. Requirements are, in priority order for me, the ability to:

• Reliably wirelessly stream music in the usual formats from NAS to a DAC
  
• Stream internet radio, possible DAB
  
• Some means of selecting what I am listening to either on a remote or a front screen
  
• Rip CDs properly (though I can easily live with EAC)
  

I don't need an onboard DAC nor amplification. I don't need multi-room support. Though perhaps a longer term 'nice to have' might be a kind of Music server. But that is starting to sound a bit like a Sonos!

if some could produce similar to sonos z90 /iphone with a high class dig out .that is all that is required. i use ripnas

quote:

Originally posted by MartinCA:

quote:

Originally posted by Aleg:
I would like to vent my preference to Naim R&D that they develop a Naim mediaplayer by taking superfluous parts (pre-amp- and DAC-sections) from the HDX and turn into a slimmed mediaplayer.

aleg

Completely agree. Requirements are, in priority order for me, the ability to:

• Reliably wirelessly stream music in the usual formats from NAS to a DAC
  
• Stream internet radio, possible DAB
  
• Some means of selecting what I am listening to either on a remote or a front screen
  
• Rip CDs properly (though I can easily live with EAC)
  

I don't need an onboard DAC nor amplification. I don't need multi-room support. Though perhaps a longer term 'nice to have' might be a kind of Music server. But that is starting to sound a bit like a Sonos!

Indeed the wish list is not that special, I only want it to be Naim top-quality.
Further I would like to add at least 24 bit / 192 kHz playback (that part is something 'your' Sonos is lacking).


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aleg

Sonos has a DAC and doesn't rip. I think a server without any DAC or analog out would be such a sales deterrent that there would be no cost savings due to lower sales projections bringing up per unit costs. Of course, this depends on the included DAC topology.

quote:

Originally posted by js:
Sonos has a DAC and doesn't rip. I think a server without any DAC or analog out would be such a sales deterrent that there would be no cost savings due to lower sales projections bringing up per unit costs. Of course, this depends on the included DAC topology.

sonos only as a basic dac.the digital out to the ndac sounds very good,i use ripnas for ripping the majority of naim owners have amplifiers they dont want integrated power amps bulit in to any device

Did I mention an amp? Ripper was only mentioned in relation to the previous posts. Not a necessity as downloads will be the way but still great for the current state of things. I agree most Naim users don't need an amp in their streamer and not part of this discussion but since you mentioned it, the Uniti has made a bunch more happy Naim owners from those that weren't before and will perhaps move up in time. You'd probably be surprised by it's popularity.

Downloading has not yet supplanted the CD as the best quality route, and it will not until the standard of generally available downloads reaches the quality of Redbook CDs.

Most of the mainstream and musically interesting downloads remain resolutely only at an MP3 encoded level, which is simply a lower standard than CD in any case.

Till downloads are CD standard or better, then don't abandon your CD ripping capacity!

What I do not understand is why downloads are not at CD standard today? Very strange. Perhaps the recording companies want to gain even more control over the master recordings by actually increasing the quality drop from the original master recording even compared with CDs. There must be a reason why the only downloads that are at a higher quality than CDs are from audiophile style recordings of generally less than stellar musical performances?

I do suspect that the CD has a long life yet, because it works as a long term physical back-up for lost files, and the standard is probably the best we shall see for the buying of recorded music, at least for worthwhile performances of great music.

ATB from George

quote:

UPNP is not the way forward

Agreed.

quote:

I do suspect that the CD has a long life yet, because it works as a long term physical back-up for lost files, and the standard is probably the best we shall see for the buying of recorded music, at least for worthwhile performances of great music.

Agreed - along with vinyl when available.

nDAC seems a good way to play downloaded music as it becomes available and a worthwhile enhancement to a CD player/transport with a digital out. The current interface between a computer and nDAC seems the weakest link to me, which may explain why I preferred music presented to the nDAC from a humble USB stick or it may not ....

quote:

Originally posted by GFFJ:
...

What I do not understand is why downloads are not at CD standard today? Very strange. Perhaps the recording companies want to gain even more control over the master recordings by actually increasing the quality drop from the original master recording even compared with CDs. There must be a reason why the only downloads that are at a higher quality than CDs are from audiophile style recordings of generally less than stellar musical performances?

...
ATB from George

George

I think I'm lucky in my taste of music in this respect. I buy downloadable music only if it is available in High Resolution, so that is 24 bit and 88.2/96/192 kHz. Otherwise I buy the CD, just to have the physical copy in hand.

I must say that Linn Records, HDTracks, 2L have very good performances.

I bought all the available "Stile Antico" performances in HiRes from HD-Tracks and they are top of the range performances. Likewise the Mackerras/SCO Mozart Symphonies, Arthur Pizarro Liszt recital, Beethoven Piano Concertos. If you like Michael Tilson Thomas then HDTracks has some of his recent Mahlers in HiRes.


I agree it is not much yet, but I think it will be coming.

But agreed, most HiRes offerings seem to be from unknown artists of not (yet) exceptional level, that probably try in this way to add something 'special' to their recordings.

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aleg

Dear Aleg,,

When I see such legendary musicians as Klemperer, Bruno Walter, Annie Fischer, [you get the idea] issued in Hi-res, then I promise to eat my hat - actually a flat cap! Yorkshire tweed not Naim! I admire MacKerrass's Dvorak over all comers, but that is another tale as EMI have these out on CDs!

Hi-res has come from Linn, but for me MacKerrass is a very faint shadow of Klemperer in the chosen repertoire of Mozart symphonies.

CD has a long life yet IMO. Though ripping is huge job before it is done! I have done my library, and the leap forward over direct CD replay is splendid. Cost for cost it knocks the spots off direct CD replay, even with a modest system. Let me say that my little set is now filling the boots of my old CDS2 very nicely. In some respects it is actually better, though faced stiffer competition when faced off by the CDS3! Driving 552, new SNAXO [withS/cap], two by 300s ontp SL2s - last weekend!

Best wishes from George

quote:

Originally posted by GFFJ:

What I do not understand is why downloads are not at CD standard today? Very strange.

Unfortunately, a vast percentage of the population don't care about the quality of their music and the music industry knows it...quite sad really.

quote:

Originally posted by PureHifi:

quote:

Originally posted by GFFJ:

What I do not understand is why downloads are not at CD standard today? Very strange.

Unfortunately, a vast percentage of the population don't care about the quality of their music and the music industry knows it...quite sad really.

Dear George

If you would like to download CD Quality classical music and don't mind not having the actual CD itself, check out passionato (www . passionato . com). They have (nearly) everything they sell also in CD Quality FLAC files (beside 320 kbps MP3 for those who don't mind)

Also check out the websites from the record labels themselve, e.g. hyperion-records or gimell

-
aleg

quote:

Originally posted by MartinCA:

quote:

Originally posted by Aleg:
I would like to vent my preference to Naim R&D that they develop a Naim mediaplayer by taking superfluous parts (pre-amp- and DAC-sections) from the HDX and turn into a slimmed mediaplayer.

aleg

Completely agree. Requirements are, in priority order for me, the ability to:

• Reliably wirelessly stream music in the usual formats from NAS to a DAC
  
• Stream internet radio, possible DAB
  
• Some means of selecting what I am listening to either on a remote or a front screen
  
• Rip CDs properly (though I can easily live with EAC)
  

I don't need an onboard DAC nor amplification. I don't need multi-room support. Though perhaps a longer term 'nice to have' might be a kind of Music server. But that is starting to sound a bit like a Sonos!

You might be about to have your wish granted. Are you aware of the prototype/concept UnitiServer that was unveiled at the Bristol HiFi Show?

See to the discussion discusseion below:

http://forums.naim-audio.com/e...8019385/m/1472936927

quote:

Originally posted by Asenna04:

quote:

Originally posted by MartinCA:

quote:

Originally posted by Aleg:
I would like to vent my preference to Naim R&D that they develop a Naim mediaplayer by taking superfluous parts (pre-amp- and DAC-sections) from the HDX and turn into a slimmed mediaplayer.

aleg

Completely agree. Requirements are, in priority order for me, the ability to:

• Reliably wirelessly stream music in the usual formats from NAS to a DAC
  
• Stream internet radio, possible DAB
  
• Some means of selecting what I am listening to either on a remote or a front screen
  
• Rip CDs properly (though I can easily live with EAC)
  

I don't need an onboard DAC nor amplification. I don't need multi-room support. Though perhaps a longer term 'nice to have' might be a kind of Music server. But that is starting to sound a bit like a Sonos!

You might be about to have your wish granted. Are you aware of the prototype/concept UnitiServer that was unveiled at the Bristol HiFi Show?

See to the discussion discusseion below:

http://forums.naim-audio.com/e...8019385/m/1472936927

Yes, I saw that.

But it is not all what is asked for, a mediaplayer/streamer. This is some kind of ripper cum mediaserver.

It appears not to be a mediaplayer except for WAV-files (and not for other codecs) of only up to 96 kHz (which is a shame because the nDAC supports up to 352.8 kHz).
I would not want to have a harddisk device running besides my audio equipment.

The original wish from this post is that I would rather see a scaled down HDX with HDX-technology then one coming from Uniti-technology. So no rip, no HDD, no CDP, no DAC.

So to speak in David Dever terms something that just offers control + rendering (3 + 4) with S/PDIF output to the DAC. The content generation (1 + 2) to an external NAS-storage should remain outside of the mediaplayer/streamer.

Maybe future information will shine a different light on this product and other products, but my feeling is it is not coming from the right productline I would like to see it coming from.

-
aleg