140/72/HiCap upgrade path?

Posted by: Regis on 14 March 2002

I've recently made the 'leap of faith', buying a used pr. of Neat Vitos without an audition. (They were 1000 miles away & no local dealers here in Colorado). To put it simply, I love the Vitos! Leaving out my source components for now, (I don't know if I want to put more $$$ into digital or vinyl upgrades)which component would upgrade my sound more, 72 to 82 or 140 to 250? My original Naim dlr. several states away now says go for the 250, skipping the 180. But what about the 82 pre vs 72, would that give a more 'refinded & detailed' sound vs the added uuummmpppphhh I suspect that the 250 would produce? I guess I just want to put the money where it will produce the best long term value & I can't afford to upgrade both immediately. I'll be selling or trading a pr. of Credos & either the 140 or 72 to swing the deal.

Thanx in advance for any insights....

Regis

Posted on: 14 March 2002 by glenda

Hello - just done the same upgrade in two stages 82 first ( with two hi caps) then 250 . I expected the 82 to make the biggest difference but I was wrong. I ended up with greater clarity and punch when I upgraded to the 250 . I did a demo for the buyer of my used 72 and had forgotten how great that pre amp is.I suspect I may be in a minority on this one but I hope this helps
Cheers
Glenda.

Posted on: 14 March 2002 by Mike Sae

Congrats on the Vitos. I have the same amplification as you, and I've also been advised to look at a 250 next. If you go for the 250, you'll have the classic 72/hi/250 configuration. I reckon a 250 will grip the isobarically loaded drivers of the Neats with much more authority. Source first issues aside, Vitos deserve 250 power, IME.

There was a recent thread regarding the merits of a 250 over a 140 which is quite relevant since you run Vitos:
thread

Posted on: 14 March 2002 by sonofcolin

I have the same set up as you (including credos) and have heard an 82 instead of 72 and 250 instead of 140.

I found the 82 made a HUGE difference and the 250 not so huge. This was with P9 as source. With a CD5 I couldn't tell the difference. Haven't looked at your profile so I don't know what you are putting through the 72, but I would consider source, then pre, then power. Sorry to state the obviuos, but in my experience it is true!

Posted on: 14 March 2002 by Regis

Currently my sources are rather modest, a Toshiba SD9200 DVD/CD (ghast!) & a Rega Planar 3. The Toshiba has a very good transport, but the Dac is so, so. The setup also uses the 'grey' (snaics? ics?) not the black, or mana. Is this a 'must do' upgrade also? I've only used the 'red chord' ic/rca for the cd player. What are folks using for connecting non-Naim players?

Regis

Posted on: 14 March 2002 by Mike Sae

I'm amazed your dealer advised you to get a 250 before upgrading your main source, be it CD or LP.

If I were spending your money , I'd put the Credo money into a new source. Is there any compelling reason why you want to leave your sources as-is?

PS, if you upgrade to a newish Naim CDP, you'll get a free black SNAIC...

Posted on: 14 March 2002 by sonofcolin

Regis

I think you may have a mullet on your hands.

I would seriously consider upgrading the source! Keep your DVD player and go for a 'proper' CD player (if CD is your main source).

It depends on how much you are prepared to spend. Obviously, I would recommend the CDX and CD5, but there are of course many good CD players out there. Horses for courses as they say. If your dealer is on the ball (and he/she sounds like they may be a bit of a muppet!), they should be able to demo some suitable sources to fit your set up at home. You will be gob smacked at how good your system can sound with a good source.

Hope this helps.

Posted on: 15 March 2002 by Phil Barry

I was in the same place a few years ago, albeit with better sources (LP12/ARO, older top of line Sony ES CD). I wanted to get less congestion in loud, complex passages.

I did a 2 day trial of a broken-in 82 with my hicap and 140 and 89-90dB sensitive speakers. The speed and detail were incredible, but I did not feel that the improvements justified the cost - yes it was better, but for the money it should have been mind-blowingly better, and it wasn't.

I found a used 250, which i couldn't audition, but I felt that i could sell it if I didn't like it. It was broken in, but it had been turned off for days, and I transported it 45 minutes on a cold February day.

The moment it started playing - cold - it sounded GREAT - the improvement in coherence of the sound was immense, as were improvements in dynamics.

So, between an 82 and a 250, I suspect the 250 is a better choice. The 72 is a great preamp with a hicap, and it was top of the line for a while.

But I can't help thinking an investment in a better source might be your best bet - an LP12/Ittok or a P9 or a Roksan in good shape....The 140 is not as good as a 250, but it's far better than most. It'll sound a lot better if you give it more nutritious inputs to digest.

Phil

Posted on: 15 March 2002 by Regis

Ah, redemption. As of last night, my dealer has now strongly recommended, after carful consultation, that I indeed, upgrade my source. Rest well flatearthers.

"...a 250 would give you much more control over the speakers and an 82 can be used with one hicap and would be much better than the 72 but all that extra resolution would not be utilized in our experience. The Planar 3 is a wonderful table and a great value and the Toshiba DVD may be descent but better sources will benefit your current system greatly. Have you heard a CDX? You should. Have you heard the Planar 25, P9 or LP12 from Linn? Much more appropriate sources for your system"

I think when they had 1st brought up the 250, they hadn't tried to push the Vitos w/such a 'modicum of uummpphh' as the 140. What fool would. ;-)

The 'vinyl grinder' may be where I need to look 1st. Gads, it's 1975 all over again, the more things change, the more they remain the same....

Regis