Difference between 72 & 102

Hi Terence,

I'd pop for the 102 myself. I've heard (and/or owned) the amp combos you're comparing and it's a clear choice....the 250 can wait. Try and squeeze a NAPSC into the budget--it's a huge upgrade for the 102 for a few dollars more.

hth,

dave

A 102 and a Hi/250 is an ill match, imho.

I haven't heard the 72, but I have heard the 62. I reckon you'd be wasting money on a sidegrade, which would give you a few sonic trade-offs.

It may be worth waiting for an 82 - then you'll get a no-brainer upgrade.



Regards,

Steve.

This topic is fraught with danger. But, having owned the 72, 102 and 250, I consider the upgrade to the 250 to be "fundamentally" better than Naim's lesser amplifiers, while the 102 is, in my opinion, no better than a 72, even when outfitted with an napsc.

To fully half or more of the readers on this forum, the opinion expressed above is nothing less than patently heretical. so be forwarned.

Justin,

You are indeed right in what you say. I think that the fact that my own sistem is a mongrel one with the CDX at the helm makes me a more impartial adjudicator in these matters.

Some guys will regard my experiences in this regard as some kind of "heresey" because they are but "sheep" worshipping at the altar of the successor in terms of the 102 over the 72 as a "sacred cow."

The 72/Hi/250 may have been "The Dog's Bollocks," but the 102/w,wo Napsc/Hi/250 certainly isn't, in my book.

However, the 82/Hi/250 is a very nice combination.

The 102 w Napsc/140 is also more than acceptable.

Naim isn't about lego bricks, it's about hierarchical balance.



Regards,

Steve.

"To fully half or more of the readers on this forum, the opinion expressed above is nothing less than patently heretical. so be forwarned."

Justin, normally we'd nail you and Steve to the cross for this...but we need the wood for more Fraims right now ;-)


peace and love,

dave

P.S. Man...Steve...I don't know where you've been getting your Naim demos but I'd consider a different location ;-)

Dave,

Peace and love sentiments are indeed reciprocated. , or should that be :-) ? , or even ;-)



Regards,

Steve.

That's better..the old Steve ;-)

dave

quote:

---

P.S. Man...Steve...I don't know where you've been getting your Naim demos but I'd consider a different location ;-)

---

The only other location I can think of is my own listening room.

Naim never sounded so good as in my dealer's dem room. His floors may be uneven, but spikes are generally long enough to counter that.

When in a Very Serious Mode, I even bring my Mana Spirit Level / :-D



Regards,

Steve.

The only other location I can think of is my own listening room.


You guys also seem to like forward-hierarchy AC plug orientation better...must be the water ;-)


regards,

dave

quote:

---

Some guys will regard my experiences in this regard as some kind of "heresey" because they are but "sheep" worshipping at the altar of the successor in terms of the 102 over the 72 as a "sacred cow."

---

.....and some guys will regard that statement with the complete lack of credibility it deserves.

Jay

Yabba, dabba, doooooo

Guys, guys, guys, thanks for all those wondeful (i'm trying to...) replies.

I think I am quite certain of the direction I'm heading; at least with the Naim heirarchy.

Thanks a bunch.

All opinions are solely my own and not forceful in any nature.

quote:

---

.....and some guys will regard that statement with the complete lack of credibility it deserves.

---

That credibility, or lack thereof should be thoroughly checked out before it is to be disbelieved.

Regards,

Steve.

The bloody proof of the pudding...

I don't think informed decisions can be made in the context of dealer dem. All too often I've been impressed at the dealer only to be sorely dissappointed at home. It's not that the stuff sounds that much differant in my system than at the dealers, but that I am better able to come to terms with what I am hearing at home than otherwise.

Moreover, I've come to the conclusion that "informed" decisions about which components are better do not take place "as soon as the needle hit the record", but rather in the small hours of the night, on your 10th record--when the conscious and subconscious finally recognize the difference between "different" and "better".

It's all about what you like.

Judd

quote:

---

I don't think informed decisions can be made in the context of dealer dem. All too often I've been impressed at the dealer only to be sorely dissappointed at home.

---

I totally agree. However, if something peels the paint off the walls in the dem room, it is hardly likely to be any better at home.

"Hmmm, that sounds like a pile of poo Mr. Dealer, can I take it home?"

"Of course you can."

When I have been impressed with a dealer dem, a home dem has always followed.

I borrowed a CDX twice before I eventually bought it. I was seriously unimpressed the first time, and so upgraded my stand instead. With the new stand in place, the CDX was more than impressive in both the short and long term, so I then went and bought one.

Before Christmas, I borrowed some Townsend Isolda speaker cable for a week having been impressed with it in the dem room.

It didn't do it for me at home, so I didn't order any.



Regards,

Steve.

This one is a no brainer

Nap250 everytime, the 72/hicap/250 is something I lived with for a few years

If upgrading the preamp, go straight to the 82; which is definitely worth it

The 102 isn't an so much an upgrade, more a sideways move.

"I borrowed a CDX twice before I eventually bought it. I was seriously unimpressed the first time, and so upgraded my stand instead. With the new stand in place, the CDX was more than impressive in both the short and long term, so I then went and bought one."

Steve,

This may be a key to why you've found a 102/250 rig "unlistenable" (a finding contrary to the majority of 102 users as well as the gears' designers).

regards,

dave

Dave,

You are indeed correct.

The 102/Hi/250 can wing it on ordinary Quadraspire, but the Ref. version highlights those sistem hierarchical imbalances big time, which is why some folks have expressed a preference for the non-wobbly QS.

Such folks are but messenger-murderers.



Regards,

Steve.

but the Ref. version highlights those sistem hierarchical imbalances big time,

Did the Qref highlight those same system imbalances with the 72/250 combo?

regards,

dave

quote:

---

Did the Qref highlight those same system imbalances with the 72/250 combo?

---

I don't know as I've never heard a 72. What I do know is that the 72 is supposed to be more rolled off in the treble, which would mask the harshness I associate with the signal from the 102 going into an all-too-revealing power amp.



Regards,

Steve.

Sorry Steve,

For some reason I had thought you performed a comparison with the 72 and 102 in a 250-based system and preferred the 102--my mistake!

When you audtioned the 102 (and formed your opinion about the 102),was it directly compared against an 82 during the 102 dem by chance?

regards,

dave

quote:

---

When you audtioned the 102 (and formed your opinion about the 102),was it directly compared against an 82 during the 102 dem by chance?

---

Err, yes.

The 102 was whipped out, and in went the 82.

It was night and day.

It was also the day that I realised that Credos were bloody good speakers that simply tell the truth about what is further upstream.



Regards,

Steve.

The 102 ws whipped out, and in went the 82.

Ahhh...that explains it (for me) then. I can understand where you're coming from with a 102 demoed against a superior product. Thanks for the clarification.

regards,

dave

Not quite...

I heard 3 sistems during my QS Ref. dem:

1) CD5/Flatcap2/112/150/Credos

2) CDX/102/Hi/250/Credos

3) CDX/82/Hi/250/Credos.

System 1 was very enjoyable, I expected system 2 to be more so, but it was actually worse; I really found that I could not live with it, and system 3 was by far the best - of course!



Regards,

Steve.

Steve, we have already discussed that you heard these products for a little while in a dealer dem room.

It is there for fair to assume you are talking crap.

I had the 102 playing along with a nap90 for a fair few months and the two sounded fantastic. And off the back of a one hour geek--a--thon with your dealer you conclude a 250 with hicap does not gell with the 102.

Please speel some more dross our way why don't you!

Thanks for the extra info Steve,

I have no idea what went wrong here but system 2 should have sounded better than system 1. Something was definitely wrong with the installation.

regards,

dave