UPnP Servers for Mac OS X - NaimUniti Compatibility

Posted by: David Dever on 26 May 2009

We recently received our first two demo NaimUniti units at the ASL Brickyard, and I managed to sneak one into the boot of the car.

The NaimUniti is happily powering a pair of passive DBLs on a wired network (though the wireless setup at the office was a dawdle)

Music is streamed from my MacBook 13" laptop, from my iTunes Music library, subject to the following caveats:

1. NaimUniti file rendering is presently limited to 48 kHz sample rate (not a problem, as many DVD-A discs, for example, possess 48 kHz / 24-bit stereo mixes)

2. NaimUniti cannot render Apple Lossless files directly, but, in conjunction with Elgato's EyeConnect software, one can queue files for real-time transcoding to WAV over the network (NaimUniti acts as UPnP player here, with track selection and control from its front panel, including track metadata on the front display)

3. PlugPlayer app for iPhone / iPod touch works well, provided you do not attempt to queue Apple Lossless files to the NaimUniti. The combination of PlugPlayer as a UPnP controller with Allegro Media Server works quite well, though, and, barring the Apple Lossless playback requirement, one could live quite happily with this (NaimUniti acts as UPnP renderer here, with PlugPlayer on iPhone acting as UPnP controller, however, this arrangement does NOT pass track metadata to the NaimUniti's front panel display).

Copied untagged WAV files from NS01 into iTunes Music Library; playlists from iTunes show up on the NaimUniti from both server applications.

It's a bit more geeky than the NaimNet or HDX approach (my opinion only), but given the price difference...well, what do you expect? Two totally different approached to streaming technologies.

More as I have an opportunity to get familiar with the unit...quite impressed.
Posted on: 26 May 2009 by SC
Thanks David - interesting findings.

That's the first definite statement I've read that Apple Lossless will not be played (in a straight manner) - the whole 'from iPod' statement in the literature has been ill-defined all along....

So it seems as the licensing deal done with Apple extends to the n-Link cable pulling off from an iPod, but not further than that...? Although I seem to remember in a HDX thread a little while back that Apple Lossless playback would be coming...?

Bit of a shame really - I had 1/2 an eye on one for my office/studio, to be linked up to the Macs...

How's it sounding through DBLs ?! Smile

Steve
Posted on: 27 May 2009 by james n
quote:
It's a bit more geeky than the NaimNet or HDX approach (my opinion only), but given the price difference...well, what do you expect?


A better user interface. Given the (supposed) target market they'll expect better without all the buggering around to get files into the unit. Linn did the same with a well engineered streaming solution with a lousy interface. Perhaps i'm being a bit harsh as streaming audio is only one of the capabilities of this little box.

I'd bet that a fair percentage of the population use iTunes and use the free remote app to control it. Its easy to use and very slick in operation. To be able to use iTunes to stream to the uniti would be a real bonus.

James.
Posted on: 27 May 2009 by Signals UK
quote:
Originally posted by SC:
Thanks David - interesting findings.

That's the first definite statement I've read that Apple Lossless will not be played (in a straight manner) - the whole 'from iPod' statement in the literature has been ill-defined all along....

So it seems as the licensing deal done with Apple extends to the n-Link cable pulling off from an iPod, but not further than that...? Although I seem to remember in a HDX thread a little while back that Apple Lossless playback would be coming...?

Bit of a shame really - I had 1/2 an eye on one for my office/studio, to be linked up to the Macs...

How's it sounding through DBLs ?! Smile

Steve


I'm trying to understand why this 'kills' interest. The playing of Apple lossless in this way is completely seamless, so much so that I was initially under the impression that it was playing them directly.

Daves's accurate description of what's going on implies a level of user involvement that is not there. You simply select the music from the Uniti's front panel. Lossless MP4, MP3, Wav, whatever, behave in the same way as far as the user is concerned.

Because it is taking the lossless files 'back' to uncompressed WAV, I am unaware of any sound quality issues either.

Alastair
Posted on: 27 May 2009 by garyi
Try pushing the tunes through something like XBMC which can act as a UPNP server.

This also has a remote softwares for the iphone.

Presumably the uniti can just be left 'open' for music to come to it when needed.
Posted on: 27 May 2009 by pcstockton
quote:
Originally posted by David Dever:

1. NaimUniti file rendering is presently limited to 48 kHz sample rate (not a problem, as many DVD-A discs, for example, possess 48 kHz / 24-bit stereo mixes)



Dave,

Would you mind elaborating on this "rendering"?

Does this mean it cannot play 24/96? OR simply it cannot stream 24/96?

If not going wireless with the unit, what are the other options for connecting audio?

Can I use it as a DAC and use my USB out or TOSlink converter as I do my DAC? and of course use the amp and pre, CDP etc???

thanks in advance,
-patrick
Posted on: 27 May 2009 by David Dever
If you're using a Mac, as long as you use the Uniti to control and render (i.e., "play") the files, you may "play" Apple Lossless files (de- or trans-coded from Apple Lossless to 44.1 kHz / 16-bit PCM) streamed using EyeConnect. Track data will be shown on the display.

If you want to use an iPhone to select files from your Mac, on the other hand, you are limited to the file types that the Uniti can render directly (of which Apple Lossless is not included)–using Allegro Music Server, for example. Track data will NOT be shown on the display, but can be shown on the UPnP control point (iPhone, for example).

Posted on: 27 May 2009 by Signals UK
Thanks for the explanation David. Have you found an iPhone / touch application that works with the uniti? Tried plug player but it does not appear to do the business.

Patrick, we've found that the uniti will play hi-def files but, as with Apple lossless MP4, it 'sees' them as standard CD level 44/16. This could again be the EyeConnect stuff doing the down-sampling. Guess David will know.

Alastair
Posted on: 27 May 2009 by Signals UK
Ah . . guess we need Allegro for that! Your diagram arrived after my post.
Posted on: 27 May 2009 by pcstockton
So the answer is no?

I guess it is the DA-11 for me.

This is far to confusing... and I consider myself somewhat inclined. Does this only apply to MACs?

I have two great friends wanting to buy one of these as soon as possible. I dont think they would be able to work it.

Foobar to USB to DAC is so simple. I now see why everyone is so hesitant to get into distributed audio.

I can write code for Foobar, develop skins, help develop UIs and components, etc.... But this whatnot above is incomprehensible to me.

Why not just make a f-ing USB DAC?!?!?

Why does every attempt at a "Distributed Audio" solution require an IT degree?

Render? Eyeconnect? uPnp? I just dont get it.

I thought the uniti was supposed to be "simple", my misunderstanding. Can I not just send my PC audio to this thing and have it playback the music?

Is anyone else comprehending any of this?

How is this any easier than simply using a player you know and outputting the audio to a DAC? Why make it harder than needed? What is the point of all of this?

Wireless, MAC, ALAC, and streaming aside.... can it play my 24/96 FLACs if I output via USB, using Foobar as my player?

-Dumbass Patrick
Posted on: 27 May 2009 by pcstockton
quote:
Originally posted by Signals UK:

I'm trying to understand why this 'kills' interest.


Because it is utterly confusing.
Posted on: 27 May 2009 by Eric Barry
Color me befuddled as well.
Posted on: 27 May 2009 by Occean
lol it will be a lot easier to use that this....just depends on the level of tech you want.
Posted on: 27 May 2009 by Signals UK
OK. I'll talk you through the complexity. This is how it worked for me.

Unpack Uniti.

Connect speakers.

Power it up.

Plug it into network or set up wireless ethernet via the set-up menu operated from the handset.

To play music that is stored on the computer, press "PC" button.

See EyeConnect appear on screen.
Select it

Then "music"

You are then presented with lists Album, Artist, existing playlist or whatever.

Alternatively, you can use the in-built DAC, but direct access to the music files seems far less complicated to me.

If, however, you are actually looking to feed a PC into your system via a DAC, then the Uniti has far more features (like amplifier, radio tuners, CD player) to make it the right choice.

Hope this clarifies.


Alastair
Posted on: 27 May 2009 by David Dever
quote:
Can I not just send my PC audio to this thing and have it playback the music?


Yes–read the #&@^! topic title, you'll note it has NOTHING to do with Windows PCs whatsoever.

quote:
can it play my 24/96 FLACs if I output via USB, using Foobar as my player?


No. There is no USB Type B connector on the Uniti, so you cannot connect it as an audio peripheral to your computer.

In the future, however, you might be able to play the files from a USB stick inserted into the front USB (Type A) socket on the front of the unit. High-sample rate support is not yet implemented.

You may also connect it via the optical inputs.
Posted on: 27 May 2009 by pcstockton
Thanks Alastair,

I appreciate the help and your civility.

Trust me that if I don't understand this in the least, very few do.

it looked like a pretty cool piece of kit.

Oh well.
Posted on: 27 May 2009 by pcstockton
Sorry Dave. I honestly didn't mean to enrage you. While I had read the "&*%$#@*ing title", I didn't know this was exclusive to a Mac.

Just trying to learn. Ill stop and move on to other things.
Posted on: 27 May 2009 by Signals UK
No problem Patrick.

It really is a piece of kit best played with. The people who have seen how it works and have played with it have found it really very appealing. They, however, were viewing it as a rather neat all-in-one system (which is what it is intended to be).

This is not what I think you are looking for. Sure enough, there are other products in the wings.

Alastair
Posted on: 27 May 2009 by David Dever
quote:
Sorry Dave. I honestly didn't mean to enrage you. While I had read the "&*%$#@*ing title", I didn't know this was exclusive to a Mac.


No rage - just thought that you might have understood the thread title, which is not relevant to Windows PCs.

UPnP streaming of audio files is at first quite confusing, as there is no "end-to-end" operation as with a (physical) USB cable–and this might be intentional. NaimNet streaming seems to me more intuitive, oddly enough.

As for "distributed audio" requiring an IT degree–by chance, how did you expect the audio to get from one room to another? Some basic networking knowledge is required, at least at a minor conceptual level.

For some, a personal computer in the room is an unacceptable compromise, due to heat, noise, stability, etc., which necessitates the ability to stream audio files, internet radio, etc. from another location without a wire or cable connecting the source and destination.
Posted on: 27 May 2009 by pcstockton
David,
Obviously not.... but I appreciate the confidence. All of this is going WAY over my head.

Previously I would have bet that I understood these aspects better than most.

Not so sure now.

I thought a computer simply played music in a program and the program output the music in a few different ways e.g. USB, soundcard etc... to get it out of the computer and into a DAC.

Then into a preamp.

This, and this only I guess, I understand.
Posted on: 27 May 2009 by David Dever
You're getting closer.

UPnP streaming has been available on Windows PCs for some time as a built-in feature of Windows Media components–this is what permits one to stream files to an Xbox 360 or PS3 for playback, as an example.

It doesn't require a long, noisy USB cable to connect–no wires, fairly easy to configure (on a PC), and easy to control (iPhone apps, Nokia web tablets, etc.).

If you heard some of the gaming PCs I've seen lately (power supply and graphics card fans whirring away endlessly), you'd understand why this is so important. (Applies to Macs too.)
Posted on: 27 May 2009 by pcstockton
quote:
Originally posted by David Dever:
how did you expect the audio to get from one room to another?


I didn't.... I guess with a cable? I don't know??

I dont want to stream to multiple rooms. I only have one kit and one listening area. So i suppose I had not considered your question above.

I simply connect the USB to something with a DAC and tell Foobar what to output in terms of bitrate. Its really similar to iTunes for those who dont PC.
Posted on: 27 May 2009 by Patrick F
It's simple. I just brought it home plugged it in
used the software to allow my Itunes to go out as upnp
search albums artits etc etc. And play. It's all there
once stereotypes has one you will not feel so daft.
Posted on: 27 May 2009 by Patrick F
Also in my situation my G5 is in my office upstairs on wifi. The uniti is plugged into airport extreme that is in the living room. It's really quite nice to sit on the couch surf my iphone and. Serve up some tunes that are only on my G5.
Posted on: 27 May 2009 by pcstockton
Nice edit above Patrick Winker But i wont EVER be going there again.... and sincerely doubt they will have one. They had no interest in bringing in an HDX. None.

RE Uniti.... What happens for those without a Mac? How do I remotely control a PC in another room with the Uniti?

I am not opposed to putting the computer in another room, albeit only 10 feet away, but how do I access my entire library and see album art etc, when streaming?

I understand playing itunes and exporting the audio to the UNiti. But what if there isnt an iphone app, or if you dont have an iphone?

I do but would never consider iTunes.

thanks for helping.

I am trying to understand this so I can help my buddies. Also, I was starting to think that I could sell my olive kit and get one myself. Afterall, I need a DAC, a CDP and the new balck boxes are so alluring.... and sound so good.
Posted on: 27 May 2009 by Patrick F
Wasn't sure if you were with them or connon.
I am sure dave and I both will start do some reserach into the PC side of things. I know widows media already can upnp music. So it's a matter of sorting what iphone apps can work and the best way. Hang in there and we will do our jobs.