N or G router

Both are fine for audio streaming. N would be preferable for video which requires greater bandwidth. N is supposed to offer wider coverage but in practice I haven't noticed much difference. My g router at work has greater coverage than my n router at home. Coverage depends on so many factors, like metal structures, other wireless users, thickness of wall.....

N is totally pointless is your devices are not.

In my experience the most rock solid experience is with ethernet straight and simple.

Rockingdoc,

Funny and interesting question.

I would say NO WAY it matters.

But then I thought about for another 1/2 second... If Fraim chips under a rack can seriously alter the presentation, if Hilines, Powerlines, and Speaker plugs, make an audible effect. If using a different alloy of steel in the bearing of a Fraim, moving a HiCap to the left, or something touching a Hiline change the way the sound is reproduced.

How can the router NOT be a factor (for these types of people).

Perhaps the complexity involved with even simple systems like an HDX/NAS, will bring us to want Audiophile Grade Ethernet, USB, Routers, etc.....

madness.

N makes a difference. it did solve dropping out issue as it range is allot greater. using all N rated gear also makes it run allot faster.

N would be better because of its range, meaning all things being equal it'll give you a more stable connection. In my case, I upload ripped CDs to my music server so the increased speed of N would be beneficial to me. Despite being heavy into computer audio, I don't want any networking equipment in the playback path.

Assuming all your devices are N, it would leave more bandwidth for other network traffic in your home.

I agree with Naijeru.

I have upgraded from B to G and to Draft N.

"N" does give you much better range and is also less vulnerable to solid barriers and interferance. Even "G" clients benefits from that.

However not all draft N routers are created equal, I have very good result with the top of the range DLink routers. I have friends who use lower end router from another brand and they are even worse than my G router.

Of course, wired Ethernet is always best.

Hi, a very small amount of goggling will show that range is only benificial to N devices, not G devices. G devices on an N network will bring it down.

One point is that some routers are just not very good, in my experience this includes Dlink.

The best routers I have used and indeed still do are draytek, The vigor 2600g is in place right now. This things are built like a tank and can be configured in every possible well.

Blimy, what a diverse set of views.
I was having difficulties getting "reception" for my daughter's bedroom PC, and following the PC World man's advice, changed to an "N" router with an "N" receiver stick thing in her PC only. It certainly has made her connection better. My desk-top PC is wired in to the router (using Cat6) and has multiple hard-drives containing my music files. I use a couple of laptops around the house (I assume these are "G") which have not shown any improved signal from the N router.
My next plan is to introduce either; a streamer (wireless), Mac/Dac (ethernet or wireless), or HDX (ethernet) to the hi-fi. Hence my question regarding routers/receivers.

More interestingly, there's 'Dual Band N'

One of the bands operates at 2.4GHz, the other at 5GHz and both work simultaneously. You could (for instance) stream your music over the 5GHz band, leaving the 2.4GHz band for all other wireless ethernet duties. This would remove the possibility of dropouts caused by too much traffic on the single band.

Of course, you'd need to use a 5GHz compatible device to stream to. AFAIK the latest 'N Type' Airport Express is able to operate at 5GHz.

Mr Tibbs

My experience differs, I upgraded from Buffalo G to DLink N and reception dramatically improved even with G only devices.

I am just mentioning normal consumer type routers. Havent heard of vigor 2600g, is it industrial grade.

Which DLink have you experienced that was not good? I have compared Airport Express with draft N, Linksys and DLink DIR655. The DIR655 was better than both, and reliability has been rock solid in the 1.5 years I used it.

quote:

Originally posted by garyi:
Hi, a very small amount of goggling will show that range is only benificial to N devices, not G devices. G devices on an N network will bring it down.

Well I did a small amount of Googling tested N routers and found claims that they improved b/g/n clients.

You will not get the N speed of course, but both my personal experience and my googling tells me that you do get better range.

The better range is caused by the implementation of MIMO, not a function of "N".

Below link and quote is one example:

http://www.wi-fiplanet.com/tutorials/article.php/3680781

"Based on this informal testing, our perception is that the Draft N AP doubled the range when communicating with legacy 802.11b/g clients. It seems clear that 802.11n APs have improved radio performance that delivers better range even when operating in backward compatibility mode and supporting legacy clients."

In my experience :

- Getting a N router is more future proof. If you intend to expand / add N devices to the network, or have N devices now, go for it.
- N routers should have a slightly better reception than G, even with G signals.
- It is better to get a very good G device than a rock-bottom N device.
- If you don't see a need for an N device anywhere in the future, get a G device that supports dd-wrt.
- In any network, if you need reliable data transfer, don't use wireless - use a cable .

My point was that the N bit is not necesserily the bit giving your g device better coverage, the new netgear range maxes for instance have 18 antenee, thats why you get better reception.

A properly implimented G router will be just as good if its a good device.

Draytek routers typically cost 100-200 quid for home use, they are at least twice the price of typical routers, but they are superb because they are built properly. One thing is for certain I have not seen many Belkin, Netgear etc devices in business.

Now, I am not saying there is one BUT, why is it assumed the router would have no audible effect?

Sincerely,
Glass ToSlink Connects.

quote:

Originally posted by pcstockton:
Now, I am not saying there is one BUT, why is it assumed the router would have no audible effect?

Because the data is sent to a streaming device in a not time critical manner* and normally via a reliable protocol. As long as the network can get data to the streaming device faster than it is reading it from its buffer there is no way the network can affect the sound quality.

* I'd expect the streaming device requests some more data when there is room in its buffer for more.

quote:

Originally posted by matt303:
there is no way the network can affect the sound quality

Really? Everyone??? Keep in mind i DO NOT think the router has an effect.

I personally cannot hear when my NACA is turned around the wrong way or something is touching my SNAIC. But most in this forum would claim they can. Are you telling me that people can hear a difference between a Sonos, and a Squeezebox through the SAME Dac. But cannot hear the difference between routers? What is the difference?

I just find it hard to believe where people draw lines. Arbitrarily it seems.

Perhaps this proves the law of diminishing returns as it pertains to the world of hifi.

If many of the claims made by forum members and the Naim Company themselves, are to be lent credence. Then how can we not be clamoring for a HiRouter.

Pejorative? Yes...

But trying to make the point that the router MUST have an effect on the sound. It is simply immeasurable. Whereas others are measurable, technically speaking, and others still are only audible without data(flat earth).

I think as I have stated one way or another quite a number of times that you cannot place audiophile pretensions onto computer equipment, you will just be shown up as the spoon you are.

garyi,
i wholeheartedly agree.

please dont think I would EVER think it makes a bit of difference, audible or otherwise.

I am just simply surprised many others dont.

people claim to hear a difference between the digital output of many streaming products, when used with the same DAC. I personally do not.

The DAC stage is a different beast of course.


I am just saying that there are people who think they can hear a difference between FLAC and WAV, or ALAC etc.

I assumed they would "hear" routers and modems.

garyi / pcs

Suggest you guys google "denon ak-dl1 ethernet cable" for a good laugh. It's directional too.

>> Perhaps this proves the law of diminishing returns as it pertains to the world of hifi.

I do not believe it is a matter of the law of diminishing return. If you transfer a FLAC file through the Internet, it just does not matter whether it is through a high end Juniper router or a 300bps modem, the FLAC will either arrive intact or corrupted. The speed of transfer is different, but they are the same file. By the same token, it also does not matter whether the file is placed into a CD-ROM or a USB stick, transported via Fed Ex truck or a Ferrari F1 car.

So I would tend to assert with confidence that router can not possibly make a difference in sound quality. Whether it will introduce noise into the electrical circuit is another matter.

This Denon Link CAT5 cable makes me wonder about the integrity of Denon, or hifi makers in general.

The protocol itself (TCP) requires buffering. A network card has at least a few Kbit's of buffers. Simply put: the only way the active equipment in your network might make a difference in sound is if you have large amounts of traffic, or faulty devices inside the network. The audio streaming is so slow, compared to even 10BaseT, that in no way can affect any normal, working network. Same goes for parallel usage if that network for internet.

The only things that can bring your audio down are broken network cards, or huge amounts of traffic - think copying gigabytes of data, or running some bittorent which generates a lot of packages, provided your link is good enough for such a torrent. Even then, any switch should isolate that traffic from the traffic between the data server and a streaming audio receiver/player.

quote:

Originally posted by JYOW:
it also does not matter whether the file is placed into a CD-ROM or a USB stick, transported via Fed Ex truck or a Ferrari F1 car.

Playing devil's advocate here....

So, do "Gold" CDs not make a lick of difference? How about the laser in a CDP?

What about digital cables???? Different materials in toslink cables, toslink vs. Coax. I dont remember anyone laughing at these comparisons..... which i do.

Haven't people already asserted they can hear a difference between a CD and a rip through the same DAC?

Its funny how sometimes "bits are bits", unless you want to justify a $10K CDP.

quote:

Originally posted by pcstockton:
What about digital cables???? Different materials in toslink cables, toslink vs. Coax. I dont remember anyone laughing at these comparisons..... which i do.

TCP/IP over Ethernet using ARP is a quite a different story from S/PDIF. The main difference is in the multiple layers all buffered and running on high-speed. The S/PDIF isn't buffered and runs in real time (CD reads as fast as it reproduces). This gives the TCP layer running from say a hard drive (over an order of magnitude faster than an audio CD), more than enough time to re-transmit the information. Also, the way data is read from a hard disc is very different than from audio CD, audio CD's are read at a steady rate, and designed to have errors in reading, discs are designed to be "flawless".

I believe the correct English phrase is "Apples and Oranges". In my country we say something like "don't mix frogs and grandmothers" .