rega 9, lp12,xerxes
Posted by: o.j. on 31 January 2004
for which one to go in a naim / kan mk2 system?
i am very happy with my rega p3 but still looking in the direction of an ultimate turntable arm kombi.
i am very happy with my rega p3 but still looking in the direction of an ultimate turntable arm kombi.
Posted on: 31 January 2004 by Bob Edwards
O.J.--
I've owned all three and am now back to the LP12 with Geddon, Aro, Prefix, etc. They are all excellent, though with Kan Mk2s I would suggest that the LP12 "fits" the best.
You really do need to try to hear all three and see which one you like the best.
Bob
I've owned all three and am now back to the LP12 with Geddon, Aro, Prefix, etc. They are all excellent, though with Kan Mk2s I would suggest that the LP12 "fits" the best.
You really do need to try to hear all three and see which one you like the best.
Bob
Posted on: 31 January 2004 by Phil Barry
Each has its partisans. You're on your own....
Regards.
Phil
Regards.
Phil
Posted on: 31 January 2004 by Steve O
I'm a Xerxes man myself.
But I'd guess a straw poll would show the LP12 to feature in more Naim owners systems than a Xerxes would (judging by the posts I've read on this forum).
At the end of the day though you just have to audition the kit and trust your ears. You're not buying the kit for other people to like.
Steve O.
But I'd guess a straw poll would show the LP12 to feature in more Naim owners systems than a Xerxes would (judging by the posts I've read on this forum).
At the end of the day though you just have to audition the kit and trust your ears. You're not buying the kit for other people to like.
Steve O.
Posted on: 01 February 2004 by o.j.
Hy Steve O
imo it seems logical that there are more naim
owners with Lp12 than with Xerxes,because of there were a lot,lot more lp12 produced and linn was allways well known for perfect marketing on their Products.But as a xerxes man
you can answer me two questions:
1.is your Xerxes allways working on the same
performance level? (or is it necessary to do often a new set up because of performance get worse)
2.going for a new turntable you personally would go for another xerxes(concerning the sound)or would you give other turntables a try.
(iyo possible there is a dramatical evolution in performance ofnew rega9 or new lp12 in compare to the older versions??)
imo it seems logical that there are more naim
owners with Lp12 than with Xerxes,because of there were a lot,lot more lp12 produced and linn was allways well known for perfect marketing on their Products.But as a xerxes man
you can answer me two questions:
1.is your Xerxes allways working on the same
performance level? (or is it necessary to do often a new set up because of performance get worse)
2.going for a new turntable you personally would go for another xerxes(concerning the sound)or would you give other turntables a try.
(iyo possible there is a dramatical evolution in performance ofnew rega9 or new lp12 in compare to the older versions??)
Posted on: 01 February 2004 by Bob Edwards
O.J.--
I know your Xerxes question was directed at Steve, but thought I'd put my .02 in.
One of the things I really liked about the Xerxes X was that it was remarkably consistent--once I had it set up properly it stayed there as far as my ears could tell. Terrific turntable. The reason I went back to an LP12 was that, IMHO only, it lacked a bit of soul/warmth compared to the LP12. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the Xerxes X is a better match with the newer Naim electronics....
Bob
I know your Xerxes question was directed at Steve, but thought I'd put my .02 in.
One of the things I really liked about the Xerxes X was that it was remarkably consistent--once I had it set up properly it stayed there as far as my ears could tell. Terrific turntable. The reason I went back to an LP12 was that, IMHO only, it lacked a bit of soul/warmth compared to the LP12. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the Xerxes X is a better match with the newer Naim electronics....
Bob
Posted on: 01 February 2004 by scottt
I own an lp12 syrinx gedon unit, and regularly
hear at friends lp12aro gedon, lp12ekoslingo,
RoksanX mechanic, and P9...latest with 1000arm.
All sound involving and highly enjoyable. I
find that the lp12, whether circused or not,
is richer sounding than the Xerxes... the latest
P9 is considerably better than previous ones...
and really has little to go off. The lp12 with
later springs, screws and nuts holds a setup
quite well...years in fact....BUT there are
problems with Xerxes plinth sagging because of
the cut... I have owned many lp12s and they are
my favourite...but many will be very happy with
the new p9. Listen...
Scottt
hear at friends lp12aro gedon, lp12ekoslingo,
RoksanX mechanic, and P9...latest with 1000arm.
All sound involving and highly enjoyable. I
find that the lp12, whether circused or not,
is richer sounding than the Xerxes... the latest
P9 is considerably better than previous ones...
and really has little to go off. The lp12 with
later springs, screws and nuts holds a setup
quite well...years in fact....BUT there are
problems with Xerxes plinth sagging because of
the cut... I have owned many lp12s and they are
my favourite...but many will be very happy with
the new p9. Listen...
Scottt
Posted on: 01 February 2004 by Tim Jones
OJ -
I'm a P9 lover. For me it beats an LP12 hands down - souding faster, spacier, etc, but I think Bob may be right about your Kans...
Tim
I'm a P9 lover. For me it beats an LP12 hands down - souding faster, spacier, etc, but I think Bob may be right about your Kans...
Tim
Posted on: 01 February 2004 by o.j.
Hy tim ,am i right to understand that new naim gear sounds a little warmer than old naim gear,
and this could be the reason that (maybe)it will work better with a not so soul/warm suonding turntable. I,am also interested if you compared the sound of your new p9 versus xerxes?
and this could be the reason that (maybe)it will work better with a not so soul/warm suonding turntable. I,am also interested if you compared the sound of your new p9 versus xerxes?
Posted on: 01 February 2004 by ian123running
OJ,
Certainly a factor if you're buying an original Xerxes second hand. But the Xerxes X replaced the Xerxes around 1995 - and is very different. It has a three plinths instead of two - with separate sub-plinth to carry the bearing / arm: This sits within the cut-out but does not contact the top plinth atall. It is mounted on rubber decouplers which are adjustable so I think this eliminates the sag problem.
In my 15+ years with Xerxes / Xerxes X they've been completelty reliable and very stable indeed. I never even suffered the sag.
I've never heard a Xerxes with kans. I'm with Saras. If I was buying now I'd try to give them all a good listening to.
By the way, OJ, there's a set of reviews of turntables / arms under 'analogue stuff' on tnt-audio
http://www.tnt-audio.com/sorgenti/sources.html
Includes the Xerxes X/ Aretmiz but not the P9 or LP12 (yet?).
Cheers,
Ian
quote:
....BUT there are
problems with Xerxes plinth sagging because of
the cut...
Certainly a factor if you're buying an original Xerxes second hand. But the Xerxes X replaced the Xerxes around 1995 - and is very different. It has a three plinths instead of two - with separate sub-plinth to carry the bearing / arm: This sits within the cut-out but does not contact the top plinth atall. It is mounted on rubber decouplers which are adjustable so I think this eliminates the sag problem.
In my 15+ years with Xerxes / Xerxes X they've been completelty reliable and very stable indeed. I never even suffered the sag.
I've never heard a Xerxes with kans. I'm with Saras. If I was buying now I'd try to give them all a good listening to.
By the way, OJ, there's a set of reviews of turntables / arms under 'analogue stuff' on tnt-audio
http://www.tnt-audio.com/sorgenti/sources.html
Includes the Xerxes X/ Aretmiz but not the P9 or LP12 (yet?).
Cheers,
Ian
Posted on: 01 February 2004 by o.j.
Hy ian
you can see now the reason for my topic.
i know all Turntable reviews on tnt , but as you said neither they did
write there about lp12 nor new rega p9....and i know only one single review of new p9 (do not remember exactly,think it was in german Audiophile or image hifi). Thanks to you and the others in this forum i get the opinion of people who use one of these 3 turntables. Anybody usin a new p9 near Vienna/
Austria?
you can see now the reason for my topic.
i know all Turntable reviews on tnt , but as you said neither they did
write there about lp12 nor new rega p9....and i know only one single review of new p9 (do not remember exactly,think it was in german Audiophile or image hifi). Thanks to you and the others in this forum i get the opinion of people who use one of these 3 turntables. Anybody usin a new p9 near Vienna/
Austria?
Posted on: 01 February 2004 by Top Cat
Personally (having dem'd them all):
LP12 favourite
Xerxes (full monty version)
with the P9 (previous incarnation) as a disappointing third. Haven't heard the current one.
LP12/Armageddon/Aro is a nice deck. Almost as good as my old deck in detail, kinder on less than perfect vinyl, overall easier to live with than the Clearaudio was.
John
LP12 favourite
Xerxes (full monty version)
with the P9 (previous incarnation) as a disappointing third. Haven't heard the current one.
LP12/Armageddon/Aro is a nice deck. Almost as good as my old deck in detail, kinder on less than perfect vinyl, overall easier to live with than the Clearaudio was.
John
Posted on: 02 February 2004 by Jean-Marc
quote:
Originally posted by o.j.:
....and i know only one single review of new p9 (do not remember exactly,think it was in german Audiophile or image hifi).
The "new" P9 has also been reviewed in Hifi+ issue 20, November 2002.
Back issue still available at www.hifiplus.com
Jean-Marc
Posted on: 02 February 2004 by Tim Jones
OJ -
Don't know about the new stuff. I use old/ obsolete/classic (delete as preferred) stuff (52/135s) and it sounds just dandy with my P9.
Wasn't there a Hi-Fi Choice/Paul Messenger review of the P9 somewhere? Careful though - some of these will be for the original Planar 9, which sounded much less open and musical that the current one IMO...
Tim
Don't know about the new stuff. I use old/ obsolete/classic (delete as preferred) stuff (52/135s) and it sounds just dandy with my P9.
Wasn't there a Hi-Fi Choice/Paul Messenger review of the P9 somewhere? Careful though - some of these will be for the original Planar 9, which sounded much less open and musical that the current one IMO...
Tim
Posted on: 02 February 2004 by graphoman
Once upon a time... (it was some 15 years ago) we run an LP12 and a Xerxes and our judgment was that all of us who had a preference on pop preferred Roksan while classical friends liked Linn. Just to add one more point of view to the topic.
graphoman
graphoman
Posted on: 02 February 2004 by Steve O
Hi OJ,
In answer to your questions:
1- My Xerxes has always been very stable. I do a general kind of service once a year to my HiFi. You know the thing - unplugging and re-plugging in all the mains cables and interconnects. I then check the oil in the main bearing and motor bearing housings, followed by a quick set-up check for the arm and cartridge. I then leave it alone for 12 months.
It's 14 yrs old now, and like Ian I have never had a problem with the plinth sagging. Anyway, I believe an upgrade is available to solve this should you need it. If your buying new though it won't be an issue.
2- I have toyed with buying the TM Signature, but I'm happy with my Xerxes so I don't see the point.
I've just changed to the new Reference kit 282/250/HiCap and it has never sounded so good. A Xerxes would always be on the top of my shortlist, but I would always listen to the alternatives.
I agree with Bob that the LP12 is probably a little warmer sounding, but I find the Xerxes to have impeccable timing, especially when things get tough.
I haven't heard the P9 though, which I've heard good things about.
Steve O.
[This message was edited by Steve O on MONDAY 02 February 2004 at 15:53.]
In answer to your questions:
1- My Xerxes has always been very stable. I do a general kind of service once a year to my HiFi. You know the thing - unplugging and re-plugging in all the mains cables and interconnects. I then check the oil in the main bearing and motor bearing housings, followed by a quick set-up check for the arm and cartridge. I then leave it alone for 12 months.
It's 14 yrs old now, and like Ian I have never had a problem with the plinth sagging. Anyway, I believe an upgrade is available to solve this should you need it. If your buying new though it won't be an issue.
2- I have toyed with buying the TM Signature, but I'm happy with my Xerxes so I don't see the point.
I've just changed to the new Reference kit 282/250/HiCap and it has never sounded so good. A Xerxes would always be on the top of my shortlist, but I would always listen to the alternatives.
I agree with Bob that the LP12 is probably a little warmer sounding, but I find the Xerxes to have impeccable timing, especially when things get tough.
I haven't heard the P9 though, which I've heard good things about.
Steve O.
[This message was edited by Steve O on MONDAY 02 February 2004 at 15:53.]
Posted on: 02 February 2004 by graphoman
Steve said: “I agree with Bob that the LP12 is probably a little warmer sounding”
Yes, it has allways been a part of the LP12’s description but any attempt failed to show up frequency irregularities on the Linn. Very probably it’s due to the Linn’s unique resolving and transient capability in the upper bass region that we all feel it “warm”. They say half of the sound energy of classical musik comes below 200 Hz and 90% of it comes below 500 Hz. It may explain why I’d choose LP12 (were I still listening to LP) and why I did choose Naim CD.
graphoman
Yes, it has allways been a part of the LP12’s description but any attempt failed to show up frequency irregularities on the Linn. Very probably it’s due to the Linn’s unique resolving and transient capability in the upper bass region that we all feel it “warm”. They say half of the sound energy of classical musik comes below 200 Hz and 90% of it comes below 500 Hz. It may explain why I’d choose LP12 (were I still listening to LP) and why I did choose Naim CD.
graphoman
Posted on: 02 February 2004 by o.j.
quote:
Originally posted by graphoman:
Once upon a time... (it was some 15 years ago) we run an LP12 and a Xerxes and our judgment was that all of us who had a preference on pop preferred Roksan while classical friends liked Linn. Just to add one more point of view to the topic.
Hy graphoman! i think there is only one
Difference in classic music and pop music.
classic instruments are always without electricity. do not know if this is the right term but i wuold call them natural.
in pop music the use amplified instruments.
An example: i know the sound of a steinway piano,or of anunamplified Voice and I do not know the sound of a fender guitar,i know only the sound of a fender guitar in combination with an amp and an loudspeaker and while no body other can hear the sound of an electric guitar without amplification and loudspeaker it would be better imo to discuss things like tonal colouration with classical music equipment.
dou you agree with me or is ther another aspect i did not notice comparing those different kinds of music? graphoman
Posted on: 02 February 2004 by graphoman
I can’t risk more interpretation from such little facts but you may be right.
graphoman
graphoman
Posted on: 02 February 2004 by kuma
quote:
Originally posted by Steve O:
2- I have toyed with buying the TM Signature, but I'm happy with my Xerxes so I don't see the point.
yes.. a total hardware-lust.
Posted on: 03 February 2004 by o.j.
hy kuma! nice picture. Is this a better sounding Xerxes X ?
or is the tms quite another idea of a turntable?
I never saw or heard this thing. only knew it by pictures.
O.J.
or is the tms quite another idea of a turntable?
I never saw or heard this thing. only knew it by pictures.
O.J.
Posted on: 03 February 2004 by kuma
quote:
Originally posted by o.j.:
hy kuma! nice picture. Is this a better sounding Xerxes X ?
or is the tms quite another idea of a turntable?
o.j.
I haven't heard the *famed* Xerxes,
This is the TM Signature ( finally got to hera a Roksan table ) and given me a good impression in spite it had a less than ideal cart. on it.
Posted on: 04 February 2004 by andy k
i purchased a new lp12 went along the upgrade path many times until i ended up with lp12/lingo/circus/ekos/k18. all the upgrades made a positive improvement but i was always left wanting.i then was invited to audition a xerxes/xps3.5 dsu/rb300/denon 304. after hearing the xerxes combination i was blown away with the sound this was what i had been looking for itsthe whole sound was more solid, pitch was more stable,more detail,and i thought the bass was missing something but the longer i listened i realised the bass was tighter and better controlled.the lp12 has a coloured bloomy bass its a very nice deck but the xerxes is more accurate in its presentation so i have now been the proud owner of a xerxes for many happy years never once looking back.
andy
andy
Posted on: 04 February 2004 by kuma
quote:
Originally posted by andy k:
i then was invited to audition a xerxes/xps3.5 dsu/rb300/denon 304. after hearing the xerxes combination i was blown away with the sound this was what i had been looking for itsthe whole sound was more solid, pitch was more stable,more detail,and i thought the bass was missing something but the longer i listened i realised the bass was tighter and better controlled.
That was the impression Roksan gave me, too.
Solidity and definition can be improved on LP12 with Naim power suuply but, I haven't heard the combo.
I'd think it's a good chance Roksan front end might complement warmer bloomier new Naim rather than all leaner Roksan gear.
Posted on: 05 February 2004 by o.j.
quote:Hy Andy intresting things you said about your upgrade path of lp12.Heaving heard bad and good performances of lp12 i noticed that even in the best performances (i heard )
Originally posted by andy k:
i purchased a new lp12 went along the upgrade path many times until i ended up with lp12/lingo/circus/ekos/k18. all the upgrades made a positive improvement but i was always left wanting.i then was invited to audition a xerxes/xps3.5 dsu/rb300/denon 304. after hearing the xerxes combination i was blown away with the sound this was what i had been looking for itsthe whole sound was more solid, pitch was more stable,more detail,and i thought the bass was missing something but the longer i listened i realised the bass was tighter and better controlled.the lp12 has a coloured bloomy bass its a very nice deck but the xerxes is more accurate in its presentation so i have now been the proud owner of a xerxes for many happy years never once looking back.
andy
deep bass seemed to me a little bit overblown (and
because of this reason not so fast?)but i must admit it seemed a little better in a whole linn system with linto and linn amp.
so out of this topic i have filtered three
points:
1.xerxes is a superfast drysounding table.
2. it seems always people change fromlp12 to
xerxes and not in the other direction.
3. new naim gear today sounds a little bit rounder (is this the right word?) than my old (b0rrowed) nait 3
i will now decide between xerxesX and rega p9.
knowing that there is a big price difference specially with the artemiz arm.
my criteria would be the mechanical sound of those two turntables using the same cartridge
in my stereosystem.
o.j.
Posted on: 05 February 2004 by NB
Oj
I am running a Xerxes/Artemiz/Shiraz through an Artaxerxes in a creek headphone amp into a pair of senheiser headphones.
The sound I am getting is probably the best I have ever heard. It has wonderful detail, real depth and rythm to the music and has a wonderufl soundstage.
I have listened to other TT's and in my mind nothing comes close to the full blown Xerxes.
Regards
NB
I am running a Xerxes/Artemiz/Shiraz through an Artaxerxes in a creek headphone amp into a pair of senheiser headphones.
The sound I am getting is probably the best I have ever heard. It has wonderful detail, real depth and rythm to the music and has a wonderufl soundstage.
I have listened to other TT's and in my mind nothing comes close to the full blown Xerxes.
Regards
NB