And so - the search for a Piano begins...!

The Z1 and Z3 Zimmermann's are very clear yet not bright. They had the nicest action of the piano's I tried, George. The price is the issue, tho. I'm wrestling with paying either £4k or upto £6.5k. My reasoning is I'll keep what I get for a good long while, so am taking my time. Yamaha U series and kawai's K3 and K5 are not for me...

All of the below had a tone I liked. One of them may well be ruled out due to finish, but all are in the melting pot, so to speak.

My short list now looks something like this (cheapest to most expensive):

Kemble Conservatoire,
Sauter 114 custom,
Zimmermann Z3
Zimmermann Z1
Sauter 116 vega,

I'll keep you updated,

all the best.

andy

I am getting the feel of this. I hope you get the Zimmermann really! You will have it for a long time and there is no upgrade option on a piano!

Brilliant thread! George

George,
re your comment re upgrade options, you'd be surprised! It's very dealer dependant, but part-ex is always an option.

So - tomorrow brings forth the Land of Blunther, Irmler and more Souter(Headingly Piano's at Leeds)

&

Schimmel (at Forsyths of Manchester)!

Report will duly follow.

Look forward to your findings with the Bluthner! I am not acquainted with the others, but reckon you will find the Bluthner a real pleasure. Not going to spoil the fun by saying more now!

ATB from George

Indeed - all part of the fun!

Well, not that anyone asked me, but as a pianist with decades of experience (and two albums on the Naim label) in my view the best pianos I've ever played have all been Hamburg Steinways, which are out of budget range for most folks (including me).

That said, whenever anyone asks me what brands of pianos are good my standard response is that while I know some very fine folks named John, I also know some utter assholes named John. It always comes down to the specific instrument itself, regardless of brand. I've played some Yamahas that were better than some Steinways.

And that said, I have noticed that there's a bit more consistency in the quality of Yamahas than in some other brands, and as a result one often finds them in recording studios, the Yamaha C7 in particular, a few of which have been a total joy to play.

By the way, I played very nice Grotrian on my album Dreamhouse and a beautiful Steinway D on Remember the River.

All best,
Fred

I always find it interesting how few pianists mention the Bösendorfer. I had a piano teacher who swore by hers. Is it cost that keeps them out of the conversation?

quote:

Originally posted by jayd:
I always find it interesting how few pianists mention the Bösendorfer. I had a piano teacher who swore by hers. Is it cost that keeps them out of the conversation?

I recorded my album Usually/Always on a 10 foot (standard concert piano length is 9 feet) "Imperial" Bösendorfer, the one with extra low notes on the bottom (which are reverse color: black keys are white and vice versa). I used this piano because it was the one the studio had. It was OK, certainly not a bad piano, but too "mighty" for my tastes, too unwieldy, too glassy of a sound, lacking the poetic subtlety and darker, more pearly sound I prefer in the typical Hamburg Steinway.

All best,
Fred

Morning Fred - hope all is well with you.

I played a £54k Steinway at Lincoln Piano's, and it was simply gorgeous - it was as if it 'knew' I was just starting out and it played with such ease.

That said, the budget is around £6k, or slightly above if needed - no more. Sure if I get better and feel the need in a few years to change, then who knows!?!

I also note with interest your comments re sound - I've found the Yamaha's and kawai's too 'vague' sounding, but the German piano's I've played in general having more sharpness to them, but not sounding harsh. The exception was the Kemble Conservatoire.

I've a feeling I'll end up with a German made upright, but we'll see.

Frank,
was your bechstein a new aquisition, and how old was/is it when the action started breaking?

Reason I ask is that this is mentioned as an issue on older piano's, but not those newer than say made in the last 10 years?

I'll look at some 2nd hand stuff today, although I will be looking at a de-humidifier too, and to be honest a new piano seems to appeal more...we'll see.

A general questions:- I am assuming a piano needs to be delivered and set up "in situ" . Do they then "settle" or "play in" and need to be re-fettled after period of time? Also what maintenance period do they need, or does that vary with the manufacturer?

quote:

Originally posted by andy c:
I also note with interest your comments re sound - I've found the Yamaha's and kawai's too 'vague' sounding, but the German piano's I've played in general having more sharpness to them, but not sounding harsh. The exception was the Kemble Conservatoire.

Hi Andy,

Sorry if this sounds like a broken record I do think you need to at least try the Yamaha YUS5. You may end up not liking it, but I think it really does deserve a look.

I note that you don't like Japanese piano sound, but the YUS5 does not sound like a Japanese piano to me. It has a much richer midrange sound compared to the U series, less bright.

I didn't care much for the U series sound and action, but the YUS5 is in a different league.

quote:

A general questions:- I am assuming a piano needs to be delivered and set up "in situ" . Do they then "settle" or "play in" and need to be re-fettled after period of time? Also what maintenance period do they need, or does that vary with the manufacturer?

Normally the piano doesn't 'change' during transit - its room humidity that affects them. I'm aiming for a re-tune twice a year, as my dining Kitchen area is window'ed south facing, so will have to deal with heat issues - I'll be getting a suitable meter to identify humidity issues if they are apparent...

Well...
Played two Kemble Conservatoire's, also a Yamaha U3 and Radius, plus an Irmler - no Blunthers within budget.

Played two Schimmels, the 116 and 120 international - very nice.

chewing over options...

quote:

Originally posted by andy c:

I played a £54k Steinway at Lincoln Piano's, and it was simply gorgeous - it was as if it 'knew' I was just starting out and it played with such ease.

A good Steinway is like that for a player at any level.

quote:

I also note with interest your comments re sound - I've found the Yamaha's and kawai's too 'vague' sounding, but the German piano's I've played in general having more sharpness to them, but not sounding harsh. The exception was the Kemble Conservatoire.

To me the Japanese pianos, some of which can be really good, sound hyper-clear ... sometimes too clear. A Steinway typically has a richer sound, due in part to its more pronounced harmonic overtone "shimmer" ... a more varied range of beats (in the sense of minute oscillations in pitch through a note's sustain). Not really any less clear than Japanese pianos, Steinways seem to have more character.

quote:

I've a feeling I'll end up with a German made upright, but we'll see.

It might take more time, but you could look for a used Steinway upright ... they can be very good. If you found one whose cabinet needed refinishing and/or repair, but was a good instrument whose works were in good shape (consult a technician for appraisal) it could well be within your budget.

All best,
Fred

Hi Andy

Have you tried Darkbrook pianos in Tideswell a nice location and the pub in neighbouring Linto does very nice food? My missus got her Kemble from there and they are very keenly priced (and do 0% IFC)

If you've done your homework you'll already know that Yamaha own Kemble and build most of their UK pianos in the Kemble factory

The Kemble is only the £3k bottom endish model but your welcome to pop over for a tinkle, game of pinball and hear the 555 / Active 500s anytime

Cheers, D

Hi Bosh,

Long time no speak!

I have done my homework, and have done some narrowing down as can be seen on this thread!

Will possibly have more news today - will report later.

E-mail me and we'll sort out a meet?

cheers

andy

So,
one step away from the conclusion of this trip - have placed an order for the Zimmermann Z1, after re-visiting John at Lincoln Piano Centre.

Nice deal obtained, and also a very nice chap to do business with!

Reading your thread right through, I think you have made one of several wise possible choices, and the one I would probably have made for myself!

Enjoy it! A nice piano should accompany you for life! George