No need to alter MP perks.

Well I love them all, because at least the press have forgotten about the, by comparison, frankly amateurish activities of "fat-cat GPs" for the time being.

quote:

Originally posted by Rockingdoc:
Well I love them all, because at least the press have forgotten about the, by comparison, frankly amateurish activities of "fat-cat GPs" for the time being.

I for one do not have any problem with Doc`s getting a good wage or the nurse`s, paramedic`s and so on so long as they are on the ball and good at their job`s. They save live`s.
All M.P`S DO IS TAKE THE PISS IN LARGE AMOUNT`S
and are full of self importance in making a name for themselves with F@#king stupid traffic calming measure`s
Rant over, i do apologise
Paul

Personally, I dont think they're all rogues, though exactly how many MPs have behaved honourably over their expenses claims remains to be seen.

What I would love to see though is Hazel Blears et al loosing their seats at the next general election, preferably in Portillo-esque televised moments. I fully realise that in expressing such a desire, I don't come out of it well.

Chris

Fred the Shred gets lambasted for taking his stupidly large pension because although he's within his legal rights, that does not mean it is morally right to do so, according to MPs.

However, every MP has quoted something along the lines of "...they were only acting within the rules and they have done nothing wrong or Ilegal in respect of their allowances and claims." Tax free ones too.

Spot the difference? Anyone? At all?

Where's Matthew Hopkins when you need him? He could just say, when burning a few of the culprits at the stake, it's all within the rules - surely a suitable epitaph for many of our members of parliament.

This is the best thing that's happened in parliament for years - there's just got to be a movie in there somewhere.

It has at last woken everybody up to see what these people really are.

ATB Rotf

When the economy is totally broke, such that there are no advertisers, the UK government and parliament are totally destroyed beyond recovery, and the rest of us have nowt, not even the price of the Daily Telegraph............

.....what will these newpaper people do?

Seems to me they are only in it for ammusement/profit/power. Where do find out about their morals???

Cheers

Don

What an awful thought Don! I mean, where will we go for our facts?

quote:

Where do find out about their morals???

The Daily Telegraph staff don't claim the moral high ground, unlike MPs who think of themselves as our "leaders".
The DT is in the business of selling newspapers, but this story has a clear public interest & IMO publishing it is absolutely right & proper.
Anyone fancy a bet on how long it takes uk.gov.con to propose legislation limiting press freedom?

quote:

Where do find out about their morals???

I suspect the journos' morals are no different from the rest of us. They have the same human tendency to maximise. The difference is that they are not standing for public office.

Best, Chris

Quite funny that Rebekah "I'm mad, me!" Wade, editor of The Sun, turned the story down, 'cos she wouldn't meet the asking price apparently.

Oh I bet they're having a few laughs about that now, Ha Ha Ha...

quote:

The essential difference between a press-man and and MP is that I cannot avoid paying for the mis-judgements, and lack of integrity of MPs as they are payed from the public purse - the taxation taken from all of us - whereas I am free to choose whether I buy a copy of the Daily Telegraph.

The journalists have no chance to take money from me without my agreeing to it.

George, I think you might have missed the point of my post.

First, I for one, am NOT suggesting the press should be censored by government.

Second, whether you like it or not, you ARE paying for the mischieviousness of the press as a consequence of the damage they cause to our society - and THAT was the point of my post. The press claims to be the guardian of our freedom, but in reality it is nothing but a selfserving buisiness that is accountable to nobody (other than the courts - and we all know how ineffective that process is)).

The Telegraph and others seems incapable or unwilling to differentiate valid expense claims and invalid ones. It seems incapable or unwilling to carefully explain to its readership the legitimate reasons as to why MPs might need second homes and why these second homes need to be furnished, serviced and maintained at public expense.

In court we are expected to tell "the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth". Telling "the truth" and "nothing but the truth" is dead easy and I have no doubt the press more or less complies. Telling "the WHOLE truth" is bloody well nigh on impossible and IMHO the press doesn't even bother to try. Not telling the WHOLE truth is often misleading but sells news (and with it, advertising)

IMHO the press is, to a large extent, an irresponsible, selfserving, greedy business with few, if any, endearing qualities, who feed on mass hysteria.

Having said all that, I am surprised at how few polititians saw this mess comming, given the effects of the Freedom of Information Act. This in itself is incredibly worrying. If MPs couldn't see this comming, with its consequences, what else can't they see comming???? 9/11; Iraq; toxic loans; the Credit-crunch; MPs' expenses.......what next??

Cheers

Don

Good posting Don. The Press have a huge influence over what the public thinks yet are fundamentally concerned only with selling their product with absolutely no concern for either reporting truth or acting responsibly. Their sheer hypocrisy knows no bounds.

If anyone has ever had the misfortune to fall under press scrutiny they'll know what I mean.

quote:

The Press have a huge influence over what the public thinks yet are fundamentally concerned only with selling their product with absolutely no concern for either reporting truth or acting responsibly. Their sheer hypocrisy knows no bounds.

So easy to shoot the messenger.

Politicians have a huge influence over the public,
yet are concerned only with trousering vast sums of money,
with no concern for either the truth or acting responsibly.
Their sheer hypocrisy knows no bounds.

If we had trustworthy politicians acting for the greater good we wouldn't need the media to dig & dish the dirt.

It seem`s like Gorbals mick is in for a kicking now. a house of card`s is coming down

quote:

Originally posted by 555:

quote:

The Press have a huge influence over what the public thinks yet are fundamentally concerned only with selling their product with absolutely no concern for either reporting truth or acting responsibly. Their sheer hypocrisy knows no bounds.

So easy to shoot the messenger.

Politicians have a huge influence over the public,
yet are concerned only with trousering vast sums of money,
with no concern for either the truth or acting responsibly.
Their sheer hypocrisy knows no bounds.

If we had trustworthy politicians acting for the greater good we wouldn't need the media to dig & dish the dirt.

They're not messagers of course - they're manipulators of facts to suit their own particular form of greed and ego.

In the case of The Daily Telegraph exposing corrupt MPs fraudulent expenses claims I disagree.
The DT has made enemies of all the major political parties.
Apart from yourself Tony, it seems likely many powerful people will be looking to get even with them.

Tony,
I understand what you've written about the press' motives. I also agree that the morality of some journalists, even Telegraph journalists, may be dubious. But I'm still glad the Telegraph broke this story. Are you?

Regards, Chris

Glad? That a crooked civil servant trousered £70K for information which was to become freely available in a few weeks anyway, and who also incidentally supplied personal details of government employees other than MPs to an outside agency?

Not glad; and perhaps I've grown too cynical in my old age but why is everyone so surprised about this? IMO there might have been more responsible ways of handling this, but sadly not so lucrative for the Daily Telegraph.

quote:

But I'm still glad the Telegraph broke this story. Are you?

I understand Tony's point, but watching MPs squirm is great entertainment. It's shame there are people who crave power, pathetic really, but perhaps inevitable that those who gain positions of power are those least worthy. Still it is great to see the powerful ones descend in to the abyss. - I think it should be something we put in the 2012 Olympics - we'd be up for the Gold medal.

I'm probably a little bit cynical but if we can't have a laugh watching MPs as the press hound them then what is the point of MPs - without the comedy aspect the raison d'être is gone.

I mean I need a trouser press because you'd surely want me to look smart when representing you - classic comment even Russ Abbott OBE couldn't have written a better one liner.

ATB Rotf

This really is Daily Crucible stuff - excellent IMHO.

I thought the MP needed a trouser press to heat his Hobnobs.

quote:

... information which was to become freely available in a few weeks ...

Not true!
The information to be published (after months of obstruction by the House of Commons authority)
will have much crucial information removed, most importantly which properties MPs claims relate to.

quote:

... there might have been more responsible ways of handling this ...

There certainly were, but the MPs resisted all change so this is truly a scandal of their own making!

I've lived in the UK for a few years now and I still find it quite sad how the pubic perception is that MPs and civil servants are crooked and useless.

I do wonder if a lot of the moaners, would benefit from some travel to other less fortunate parts of the globe, to appreciate quite how good the government is here.

The tabloids of course, love to paint a different message.

I was listening to a Billy Bragg reading recently and he said exactly the same thing...Tory's, Labour, Lib Dem etc, they are all people who are in the job because they want a better world (they just go about it differently and have different definitions of what 'better' means). But they want a better world.

I work in the HoP from time to time, and I work with civil servants a lot. The thing that has struck me here is a)how hard both parties work and b)the quality of folk.

But the tabloids would likely disagree.

Now the expenses...it's a messy system. Why not give all MPs who would have a commute from their constituencies of greater than 1hr, £25k a year to rent/buy a base in London? Don't we want to attract quality folk to parliament? The least we can do is enable them to have a base in London to do their job.

The tabloids would hate the idea.

Maybe, the UK is actually not such a bad place, the NHS is not dire, the fact that more state school pupils now get to Oxbridge than public school pupils is a sign that state education has massively improved, the system of parliament is one of the best in the world.

The tabloids would likely say 'maybe not'.

quote:

The tabloids of course, love to paint a different message

Not a moniker that I think Telegraph editor Will Lewis would agree with but I think your post is very fair Mat.

Best, Chris

quote:

Don't we want to attract quality folk to parliament?

It'll never happen I'm afraid; never has, never will: nice idea though; you only have to look at the vultures we've got now: paid way over over the top for the value they bring - if we do away with their entertainment value then what have we got left - prime minister's question time is a joke.

They don't want to make a better a world IMHO, they want to the power and glory, and the money, of course.

I agree the UK is not such a bad place, but that is despite a load of greedy politicians.

quote:

The least we can do is enable them to have a base in London to do their job.

They don't need it. They can video-conference from their constituency. This would be far more effective, as it would focus things more clearly and would enable only one person to speak at a time. I think we have to look at cutting the cost of government, not increasing it.

All tax payers' money that is spent should be traceable and it should be possible to view what it has been spent on. If the expense is not justified then it should not be paid. If they have to be in London then accommodation should be provided, but it should be a state-owned flat and no money should end up in the pocket of an MP. They cannot and should not be trusted - that's dangerous.

If they have claimed for a phantom mortgage then they should be prosecuted.

ATB Rotf
Candidate for the Guy Fawkes Appreciation Society.

Well you've got to have a sense perspective.

I don't agree with any of that ROTF, most of what we have is due to the folk who've trod the boards of Westminster over the past hundred years...the vast majority work too hard and care too much. Contrary to the media's portrayal.

People have, and continue to die in the streets for what we have.

I do like you're logic though

Posted on Page 1:-

"Far better for the state to provide each MP who lives more that (say) 60 minutes commute from Euston/Kings Cross/Liverpool Street/Waterloo/Canon Street/Blackfriars/Victoria/Paddington/Marlebone with a modest, rent-free home in Westminster for the duration of their term. Possibly."

Seems a similar idea to

"If they have to be in London then accommodation should be provided, but it should be a state-owned flat and no money should end up in the pocket of an MP."

I am still trying to visualise a video conference with 643 participants........

Cheers

Don