No need to alter MP perks.
Posted by: u5227470736789439 on 11 May 2009
It seems that a minority of MPs have managed modest or very modest claims against costs, which are entirely unobjectionable.
I would argue that MPs have given themselves enough rope to hang themselves with the current self-enacted system.
This is a very good thing as it has allowed some of them to make proper fools of themselves, and thus demonstrate their true colours in a way their dissembling mouths do not adequately seem to do.
This is a very useful information and should be used in helping memebrs of the electorate form a judgement about whom they choose to vote for at the next election.
What is splendid is that the Daily Telegraph has had the bravery to publish these details, and thus once again demonstrating that the real guardians of democracy in the UK are not the elected Memebers of Parliament, but the free press.
What we need is not a change in the rules, but to leave this self hanging rope there so that the free press can trap greedy pigs with their snouts in the trough!
Discuss, ... if you like!
ATB from George
PS: I am inclined to think that a greater turn out at the election would be likely if there were one more line than traditionally on Ballot Papers. One which read
"None of the above."
If the "None of the aboves" formed the largest single block of votes than all the candidates selected by their sponsering parties would be rejected and a new election of a different set of candidates should be sprung following deselection of the existing crew and selection of a new collection more worth voting for.
Thus there would be no reason why people like Gordon Brown should ever darken the gangway of the House Of Commons again, which I would consider to be a very good thing ...
Posted on: 18 May 2009 by Howlinhounddog
quote:
I am still trying to visualise a video conference with 643 participants
No problem Don.
Other than Queens opening and PMQ's the place never has more than half a dozen or so attending.
Presumably the rest are struggling in some second home somewhere with these damn confusing expenses forms
Posted on: 18 May 2009 by QTT
To avoid abuse of the current system, I think it is a good idea to give them a fixed allowance depending on how far their constituencies from the Big Ben and a decent pay rise. It is not perfect but it prevents them from under / over-claiming.
Posted on: 19 May 2009 by Don Atkinson
quote:
I am still trying to visualise a video conference with 643 participants
No problem Don.
Other than Queens opening and PMQ's the place never has more than half a dozen or so attending.
Your idea would no doubt suit Mr Martin, who could regain control at the flick of a (off) switch - even if he had to ask the Clerk which way to flick the switch!!!!!!
Cheers
Don
Posted on: 19 May 2009 by Guido Fawkes
quote:
our idea would no doubt suit Mr Martin,
Not now - he is the ex-Speaker - excellent more resignations to come and some prosecutions too - great stuff.
There's got to be an album in there somewhere
Posted on: 19 May 2009 by 555
quote:
... appreciate quite how good the government is here.
From the early 1990's until 2007 as part of my work I met many MPs, ministers, etc.
IME scratch the surface they are a bunch of power-hungry corrupt parasites,
although there were a couple of exceptions.
quote:
... and some prosecutions too ...
When the police raid the House of Commons I hope they don't forget this outstanding prosecution ...
Posted on: 19 May 2009 by 555
PD
Posted on: 21 May 2009 by Christopher_M
Peter Viggers MP - For duck's sake!
Chris
Posted on: 21 May 2009 by Howlinhounddog
We really need to look at ourselves though.
How on earth did we manage to employ so many imbiciles who all now admit to "errors" on their expences forms to run our country !
ISN'T IT ABOUT TIME ONE OF THEM STOOD UP AND SAID
"YES, I ADMIT IT, I WAS AT IT...AND SO WERE THE REST OF THEM"
Posted on: 21 May 2009 by QTT
quote:
Originally posted by Howlinhounddog:
"errors" on their expences forms
Of course, this is an error.
Posted on: 21 May 2009 by Howlinhounddog
quote:
When the police raid the House of Commons I hope they don't forget this outstanding prosecution ...
Curiously enough 3x5 this is another mistake that none of them will 'fess' up to.
String 'um up I say!
Posted on: 21 May 2009 by Christopher_M
A few people have mentioned cynicism towards politicians and the political process on this thread. Today it's my turn. Joanna Lumley has just had a meeting with Gordon Brown about the rights of Ghurkas who fought for this country to live here. An announcement is expected about 12.30pm.
I can't help thinking that the PM stuffed this issue into his his back pocket after the earlier unpleasantness for a day when he needed some good news and needed to look a bit statesman-like. Pre-empting the PM's goodwill gesture, I hope the public will see it for what it is.
Marginally off-topic maybe but I just had to get it out.
Best, Chris
Posted on: 21 May 2009 by 555
Sir Peter Viggers MP claimed a total of £30,000 for gardening expenses.
Who needs a golden egg laying goose with an expenses regime like that?
Posted on: 21 May 2009 by Guido Fawkes
The claim for the duck pond was OK; turns out it was the duck's second home.
Posted on: 22 May 2009 by Don Atkinson
quote:
The claim for the duck pond was OK
The claim for the duck pond was
OK rejected by the Fees Office. I think?. So never paid. as was the case with many of the expenses claims reported by the press.
Cheers
Don
Posted on: 22 May 2009 by Guido Fawkes
Turns out it was a badly designed house for the duck - the MP must have been an idiot - a fox could get in easily. The fact that he even tried to claim is enough to justify the cries to get rid of him. I really think there should a full police investigation of any MP who is suspected of skulduggery.
Some great ideas on the radio - particularly like the idea of reducing the number of MPs to 300.
Anyway as I said before I think it is wonderful to see these tricksters exposed - makes it worth watching question time.
I wonder whose next?
ATB Rotf
Posted on: 22 May 2009 by u5227470736789439
quote:
Some great ideas on the radio - particularly like the idea of reducing the number of MPs to 300.
That many?
One per county would be enough.
ATB from George
Posted on: 22 May 2009 by u5227470736789439
I also think that for every new law, there should be an old old one removed from the statute book.
There are far too many laws, and if this idea were taken up then at least we would not have an increasing number of laws in future.
I believe Parliament should sit for no more than ten weeks in the year, and MPs should spend the other forty two weeks working on constuency problems, and not creating new laws.
The Executive should remember what it is there for and stop thinking it knows better than the individual what is right for the individual to do, especially where the actions of the individual do no impinge on others, outside perhaps their own relatives, and then obviously not including murder and so on ...
I believe more than 90 per cent of the necessary laws [such as making murder illegal] have already been invented, and that therefore the law inventing mechanism should be significantly scaled back so as to invent an appropriately smaller number of laws in future.
The agenda for Parliamentary debate should be controlled by an annual list of suggestions from the general population and Party Politics should be entirely outlawed by the means of absolutely abolishing the whipping process.
All MPs should be Independants, and explain their own ideals when standing for election.
MPs should be able to be sacked by the electors between elections if a majority request this in a local plebicite ...
ATB from George
Posted on: 22 May 2009 by Mat Cork
All sounds good to me George, form yourself a party and screw the b@stards for a second home with a 500 series rig in every room on expenses.
Posted on: 22 May 2009 by BigH47
You don't think that taxis should still have to carry a bale of straw in the boot then, George?
Posted on: 22 May 2009 by u5227470736789439
No!
That is a silly idea, and the law could be abolished in favour of a more sensible one like abolishing whips' offices in parliament.
That is one of the few laws that has yet to be invented.
Otherwise most of the essential laws already exist, so we can cut right back on the legislature and reduce its productive power to a minimum in the new order that must come from the current disorder.
ATB from George
Posted on: 22 May 2009 by u5227470736789439
The terrible fact of the Telegraph exposing of some MPs as greedy swine - apart from their susceptibility to the current influenza problem from the POV of being two species all at once ...
If the Telegraph drives one or more MPs to suicide then no harm will be done for if their consciences are finally pricked to the level where they find life's end preferable to the public pillory then they must have done enough to really be feeling bad, and thier loss will not be significant and will be a tiny help to reduce over-population. They can make peace with the Almighty at the gate of Heaven, I am sure.
What is paradoxical is that the attitide of the nanny and the anti-terroristic state has led Parliament to enact laws which restrict personal freedoms in such ways as preserving DNA and other personal [and obviously private] information in a fashion that can be used subsequently [and quite reasonably one might think] in evidence, but as many including porcine MPs point out, if one is innocent then has nothing to fear from the information being held.
One therfore assumes that only really guilty MPs will feel the need to take their own lives before the Telegraph reports the results of its investigations on MPs' odious treatment of the public purse.
I personally would welcome a hunger strike against the Telegraph from a fair sized number of MPs which could be ignored and hunger take its consequences in time ...
ATB from George
Posted on: 22 May 2009 by QTT
The current witch hunt has gone a bit too far. Would you not think so?
Posted on: 22 May 2009 by u5227470736789439
No it has not yet gone far enough.
When the records of every MP have been thoroughly publicly examined it will have gone far enough, and not until ... IMO
No harm can possibly come from examining the cost claims of a blameless MP, so no harm can come of it to any MP who is blameless, and I do not believe in harming blameless MPs ...
ATB from George
Posted on: 23 May 2009 by tonym
I also think this has gone on too long and, other than increasing the takings for the Telegraph, this constant drip-drip of information serves no useful purpose.
OK, MPs have been given a good kicking, but it's time to move on. The levels of hypocrisy from certain quarters over this matter fair takes my breath away!
Sorry, I'm an old cynic who sees the world in various shades of grey.
Posted on: 23 May 2009 by Don Atkinson
George,
What are you smoking these days???
You have become irrationally over-enthusiastic as regards knocking LP12s and MPs. (IMHO)
The Telegraph is doing two things - first it is making a fortune and second it is enjoying its power-weilding-ability.
The power-weilding-ability has two sides to it - watching the whole Parliamentary system squirm (including Cameron, Browm and Clegg) and watching the hysterical attacks of a frenzied swarm of (normally) disinterested voters, who have thought less about the expensess issue than they normally think about who they will vote for. It is this irrisponsible and potentially destructive power of the press that we need to watch out for.
Take a look at the BBC web-page that sets out the background to the expenses system. It helps to put the whole sorry mess into some sort of perspective.
We need to have (IMVHO)a completely transparant and independent investigation to :-
a - determine what the system actually is
b - determine what is legal and what is illegal
c - determine who is guilty and who is not guilty
d - prosecute through the courts, those who are considered guilty
e - set out what is considered to be within the "spirit" of the current system
f - determine who has acted outside the "spirit" of the system
g - permit those who have acted outside the "spirit" of the system to make restitution
h - set out clear, concise and transparent new rules to replace the current system
The investigation should be completed over the next 3 months (all leave cancelled!) and the findings published by September
A general election should be held about a month after the investigtion is published.
Cheers
Don
