No need to alter MP perks.
Posted by: u5227470736789439 on 11 May 2009
It seems that a minority of MPs have managed modest or very modest claims against costs, which are entirely unobjectionable.
I would argue that MPs have given themselves enough rope to hang themselves with the current self-enacted system.
This is a very good thing as it has allowed some of them to make proper fools of themselves, and thus demonstrate their true colours in a way their dissembling mouths do not adequately seem to do.
This is a very useful information and should be used in helping memebrs of the electorate form a judgement about whom they choose to vote for at the next election.
What is splendid is that the Daily Telegraph has had the bravery to publish these details, and thus once again demonstrating that the real guardians of democracy in the UK are not the elected Memebers of Parliament, but the free press.
What we need is not a change in the rules, but to leave this self hanging rope there so that the free press can trap greedy pigs with their snouts in the trough!
Discuss, ... if you like!
ATB from George
PS: I am inclined to think that a greater turn out at the election would be likely if there were one more line than traditionally on Ballot Papers. One which read
"None of the above."
If the "None of the aboves" formed the largest single block of votes than all the candidates selected by their sponsering parties would be rejected and a new election of a different set of candidates should be sprung following deselection of the existing crew and selection of a new collection more worth voting for.
Thus there would be no reason why people like Gordon Brown should ever darken the gangway of the House Of Commons again, which I would consider to be a very good thing ...
Posted on: 22 June 2009 by Mat Cork
Stop that talk at once 555, you'll have people out in the streets and Sun readers demanding Pimms on tap at their local.
Posted on: 23 June 2009 by 555
Are you referring to the Naim forum summer BBQ Mat?

Posted on: 24 June 2009 by 555
Posted on: 29 June 2009 by Christopher_M
I listened to the midnight news on R4 last night. When I heard former Tory leader Michael "Peeple" Howard criticising the Tory house newspaper the Telegraph, I knew the paper must be doing something right.
Best, Chris
Posted on: 29 June 2009 by u5227470736789439
The Telegraph is right leaning for sure, but it criticised Thatcher at a time when she was riding high, and it has never failed to point out the vacuousness of Cameron. Whatever else it is not the Torygraph.
To get Mr Howard annoyed is indeed a feather in their cap ...
Well done the Telegraph. It has long since overtaken the Times as the newspaper of greatest intrgrity in the UK and perhaps shares the prize with the left leaning Guardian ...
ATB from George
Posted on: 29 June 2009 by Don Atkinson
At a "rough" guess, what is the financial element (£££)of the criminal part of the MPs' expenses scandal? (£0.5m ??)
What is the financial element of the (im)moral part of the MPs' expenses scandal? (£5m ??)
How much did the Government pump into the economy to save the banking system (£100bn ??)
Just curious............
Cheers
Don
Posted on: 29 June 2009 by 555
What is the value of a credible, trustworthy government? (£Priceless ??)
Posted on: 29 June 2009 by u5227470736789439
Dear Don,
We have to be very careful about realtively scaling moral wrong doing.
I am not going to go any further down that road, but perhaps, as you have started the ball rolling, you would like to explain what you feel can be gained by answering the question you have put and showing us the logic of the answer?
ATB from George
Posted on: 29 June 2009 by Don Atkinson
(£Priceless ??)
Yeah.... but it requires a LOT more than a few MPs "milking" a system of legitimate expenses and a newspaper selling more advertising space to gulible voters, most of whom will have moved onto other issues big-time by the next election.
OK there WILL be a few anoraks still bleating on about duck houses even this time next year - but the average voter never listens to anoraks.
Cheers
Don
Posted on: 29 June 2009 by Don Atkinson
quote:
answering your own point and showing us the logic?
I don't know the answers, grateful you replace my guesses with the right figures.
Cheers
Don
Posted on: 29 June 2009 by u5227470736789439
Dear Don,
I shall not be bleating.
I shall be asking my current MP a few pertinent questions, to which he will either have satisfactory answers or not.
Then I decide whether he or another gets my support.
I do not care for style in the post where you ask the questions about scale and morality.
By all means try to justify it thus, but please don't set what you may have thought was a clever little trap.
That would be cynical and nasty.
Sincerely, George
Posted on: 29 June 2009 by u5227470736789439
quote:
Originally posted by Don Atkinson:
quote:
answering your own point and showing us the logic?
I don't know the answers, grateful you replace my guesses with the right figures.
Cheers
Don
And as they are in the public domain, then you can do the work yourself.
Posted on: 29 June 2009 by Don Atkinson
quote:
We have to be very careful about realtively scaling moral wrong doing.
We have to be even more careful to avoid blowing it out of all proportion.
Cheers
Don
Posted on: 29 June 2009 by u5227470736789439
So curruption is fine if on a small enough scale, and nicely covered up?
Posted on: 29 June 2009 by 555
quote:
We have to be even more careful to avoid blowing it out of all proportion.
I thought MP Douglas Hogg claiming the cost of maintaining his moat was ridiculous.
However I've changed my opinion.
I now realise Hogg has great foresight, because he needs a functioning moat to keep out angry taxpayers!
Posted on: 29 June 2009 by Don Atkinson
"So curruption is fine if on a small enough scale, and nicely covered up?"
Absolutely NOT and I have been crystal clear about that throughout this thread.
Those who are guilty of criminal offenses should be brought to justice and punished accordingly - again as I have consistently said.
Just don't accuse 640 other members who have commtted no crime, aand keep focussed on important issues.
Cheers
Don
Posted on: 29 June 2009 by Don Atkinson
quote:
However I've changed my opinion.
I now realise Hogg has great foresight
common sense prevails at last...
Cheers
Don
Posted on: 29 June 2009 by u5227470736789439
quote:
Just don't accuse 640 other members who have commtted no crime, aand keep focussed on important issues.
Are you suggesting that I have?
______
The final and full supplemetary report published by the Telegraph presented what had been previously published in the daily paper, and it reads as a thoroughly balanced and sane report. I have to say that the daily reports were harder to comprehend in some respects as they really lacked the context that the full report would give them.
Some of the daily reporting was absolutely first rate, though, IMO.
Of course there will be occasions where the truth really might have been the same as reported, but explainable, if not explained, as a reasonable thing.
I imagine the John Prescott's two lavatory seats had as much to do with he who ate all the pies as corruption, perhaps?
Posted on: 29 June 2009 by Don Atkinson
quote:
two lavatory seats had as much to do with he who ate all the (pork) pies as corruption,
...no need to incite PB on this one George.....
Cheers
Don
Posted on: 29 June 2009 by u5227470736789439
I tend to think that the British public still has more common sense than politicians care to give them credit for!
Even we can see the poor JP's toilet seats were PB's fault!
ATB from George
Posted on: 30 June 2009 by 555
quote:
common sense prevails at last...
However it is unfortunate Hogg doesn't know the difference between right & wrong.
Posted on: 01 July 2009 by 555
Posted on: 25 September 2009 by Christopher_M
Does the alleged motive of the leaker, broadly that MPs were caning it while British troops fighting in Afghanistan and Iraq were short of vital kit (as revealed in today's Telegraph) make any difference to those still in support of the MPs expenses system?
Regards, Chris
Posted on: 25 September 2009 by tonym
Me being cynical might point out that the leaker was also "Caning it".
The cost of weaponry being what it is, the amount of expenses the MPs overclaimed for might buy the odd bullet or two.
Posted on: 25 September 2009 by Don Atkinson
quote:
Does the alleged motive of the leaker, broadly that MPs were caning it while British troops fighting in Afghanistan and Iraq were short of vital kit (as revealed in today's Telegraph) make any difference to those still in support of the MPs expenses system?
Simple answer - No!
The two subjects are not related.
We should spend whatever is needed on our troops in Afghanistan. We should change the MP expenses system and enforce the rules properly.
I presume the Mole has handed his Telegraph fee over to the Army to help fund better equipment and if the Telegraph made a killing out of their milking run on the expenses story, I presume that has been donated to the Army likewise.
Cheers
Don