Fuel Price Petition

Are you really that confused Steve? I meant moving closer to the job!
On the contrary, when an individual moves close to work it solves the commuting for the individual & reduces pollution.

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Presumably you would move, just like that. Yeah right.

When I started working in London (late 1980s) I lived in Maidstone & commuted by rail & tube. When the railways were privatised it became impossible to commute because of the reduction in service (I was a shift worker) & big increases in fares.
I wanted to keep my job, & didn't want to drive so I moved to London. Not just like that, but with due consideration. I also didn't bleat about it being so unfair, or declaring myself a victim.

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However, virtuous it makes you feel as a townie.

I moved a few years ago. I now live in a remote rural area; my nearest neighbour is 1.5 miles away, nearest shop 4.5 miles & nearest town 14 miles.

We all know what assumptions are the mother of Steve.

BTW how is your Mum?

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On average a bus carries the same number of people as 30 cars in one-tenth of the road space, because average car occupancy is 1.6 persons.

Not round here - can't afford the bus. At night most of them go round with one person, the driver.

I was going to buy a donkey, though perhaps not as the boss told me the other day to get up off my big fat donkey, or words to that effect.

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It's hurting me in my wallet, so please pass the pain to someone else.

Now that's a real vote winner IMHO.

I think the main problem is overpaid politicians and councillors, not the people who do the honest day to day work, but the fat cats that set policy and take huge salaries and bonuses. I worked out that by outsourcing local government to Brazil, we could save a fortune.

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Are you really that confused Steve? I meant moving closer to the job! Roll Eyes

How many jobs should you do that for? Or are you stuck in a time warp where a job is for life. If you really think people choose a job to have a difficult journey....what can you say.

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I think the main problem is overpaid politicians and councillors, not the people who do the honest day to day work, but the fat cats that set policy and take huge salaries and bonuses. I worked out that by outsourcing local government to Brazil, we could save a fortune.

True ROTF, but the state sector has ballooned to such an extent that the taxes are necessary to keep it going and preserve all those final salary pension schemes.

Presumably, 555 is happy to be soaked for more cash to fund it all. It will help change behaviour....and all that.

Steve

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I worked out that by outsourcing local government to Brazil, we could save a fortune.

As one who is normally amazed at the sagacity of your musings, I wonder whether you had also thought of just exporting the politicians and bureaucrats? Not to Brazil - they have enough to deal with.

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I moved a few years ago. I now live in a remote rural area; my nearest neighbour is 1.5 miles away, nearest shop 4.5 miles & nearest town 14 miles.

Those neighbours must be very happy to have you, I bet they all share your enthusiasm to pay more tax with higher fuel costs.

Now we have to have the "moving" todgers out do we? I have worked, and lived in several counties - but there comes a point where you have to decide where you are going to live for the sake of more than just yourself. These days you often have to take work assignments where you can. None of these realities change just because a few people think it might be less congested if it wasn't so.

Steve

You are on a roll - more wrong assumptions Steve!

I'm not enthusiastic to pay more tax, but we all rely on the services they pay for.

Now we have to have the "moving" todgers out do we?

What do you mean? Mine is still in my trousers!

there comes a point where you have to decide where you are going to live for the sake of more than just yourself.

Exactly, you have decide then you have to take responsibility for your decisions & your life.

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How many jobs should you do that for?

As many as you need.

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If you really think people choose a job to have a difficult journey....what can you say.

I didn't say that. I do think many people don't give enough thought to where live in relationship to where they work, how secure their job is, reliance on modes of transport, etc.

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Presumably, 555 is happy to be soaked for more cash to fund it all. It will help change behaviour....and all that.

We all know what presum .... hold on, I've already done that joke.

Sorry, you've split your line of arguement so far away from:-

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it's hurting me in my wallet, so please pass the pain to someone else.
A tiresome & predictable reaction.

The sad reality is most people don't change their behaviour however damaging it is to the environment, until they are hit in the pocket.

That the main point is getting lost.

This was your justification for not cutting govt spending. Rather than raising more revenue.

Fine, I don't agree. So let's agree to differ.

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Originally posted by Chris Kelly:

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I worked out that by outsourcing local government to Brazil, we could save a fortune.

As one who is normally amazed at the sagacity of your musings, I wonder whether you had also thought of just exporting the politicians and bureaucrats? Not to Brazil - they have enough to deal with.

Exporting the politicians - good idea, but who'd want our lot - I think there is an assumption that Gordon Brown and company have some intrinsic value. Perhaps they could get jobs as alternative comedians

Brown: what are you doing about the economy, Chancellor

Chancellor: trying to clear up the mess you made

Brown: sorry darling.

Think I'd best not give up the day job.

ATB Rotf

hmmm ... sagacity - excellent word, I'm going to use that in my work tomorrow

BTW I'm a country bumpkin and before anyone criticises me, I'd like to say I don't use my car that much ... usually I just use it once a day to go around the corner to the shop, it's only 100 yards or so, so I'm not too bad. At least after having my tyres changed the other day I still remembered to stop at the red light.

Steve you are rambling; have you still got issues with your moving todger?

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Originally posted by Steve S1:
Quite right.

Various governments spend years running down public transport, closing railway lines and encouraging road use and then wishes to pretend none of that happened? I think not.

The country has been planned, built and ordered around it's road systems. To change that takes far more imagination and huge commitment rather than just trying to price users off it. That's just blatant tax raising opportunism.

The govt must be dead chuffed that the environmental issues have gained such a high profile bandwagon. Never before have you seen such a trump card produced to anyone who dares complain about obscenely high taxation. People up in arms about the extortionate fuel, waste and energy taxes are brushed aside in an instant with the "need" for green taxes.

Priceless.

I bet Healey and Callaghan would have loved such an excuse.

Steve

Hey your statement certainly rings 100% true here in NZ...

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Exporting the politicians - good idea, but who'd want our lot

I suspect a few countries would, just to prosecute them for war crimes!

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Not round here - can't afford the bus. At night most of them go round with one person, the driver.

Were you unwell when your maths class covered statistics ROTF?
Just a wild guess!

Blah Blah Blah

carbon footprint, co2 emmissions, global warming, go by bus,green energy, fuel taxes.

Watch Tony Robinson's sunken britain and see how the climate changes over a long period of time and as for climate tax- thats what it is A TAX.

Dont forget that most of the pressure for this comes from MP's and other limelight seekers, who cant a run 100 yards let alone a country.

How many of us good envirnomental naimites would turn our hifi off every night to save the planet.

I wont and lets face it the current round of fuel price rises started when our EU peace envoy to the middle east and his mate and current UK tourist and lame duck president went for a fact finding tour of Iraq.

I'll do whatever I have to without ruining my life style and if I upset some trendy left leaner in the process, as Clark Gable once said in that less than environmentaly friendly film, gone up in flames - "Frankly I dont give a damn" (but you look great in that dress love)

:-) Time for more fairtrade coffee I think

Henners

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Originally posted by Henners:
Blah Blah Blah

carbon footprint, co2 emmissions, global warming, go by bus,green energy, fuel taxes.

Watch Tony Robinson's sunken britain and see how the climate changes over a long period of time and as for climate tax- thats what it is A TAX.

Dont forget that most of the pressure for this comes from MP's and other limelight seekers, who cant a run 100 yards let alone a country.

How many of us good envirnomental naimites would turn our hifi off every night to save the planet.

I wont and lets face it the current round of fuel price rises started when our EU peace envoy to the middle east and his mate and current UK tourist and lame duck president went for a fact finding tour of Iraq.

I'll do whatever I have to without ruining my life style and if I upset some trendy left leaner in the process, as Clark Gable once said in that less than environmentaly friendly film, gone up in flames - "Frankly I dont give a damn" (but you look great in that dress love)

:-) Time for more fairtrade coffee I think

Henners

Don't think you'll be killed in the rush to turn the boxes off. When talking about changing behaviours, they usually mean other people (drivers, mainly).

I'll join you for that coffee.

Until I retired a couple of years ago I did a 150 mile round trip to work & home. This journey was totally impractical by public transport and the fares were cripplingly expensive to boot. The silly thing was, I could have done my job just as well working from home, and saved myself 3 or so hours a day music-listening time, but like most of us, we're programmed to believe unless we turn up & show our faces, somehow we're not working hard enough.

Talking to some folks at a party over the weekend I noted that the majority were now talking in terms of car sharing, working from home, perhaps moving, cycling to work etc. I do agree that hitting people in their pocket sadly seems the only way to get them to change their habits.

The proposals for a congestion charge in Manchester has triggered off the usual howls of protest from motorists, many of whom in the same breath complain about the awful local traffic problems. So what's the answer? Build more roads? Although not a perfect solution, the London congestion charge has caused a 21% reduction in traffic volumes.

I think we all must acknowledge that oil is a finite resource which is now running out and we need to think in terms of arranging our lives in a different way. I'm in the middle of nowhere & being without a car would be a real problem, but not an insurmountable one. I can walk into our town in 30 minutes across the fields, and that's what I'd have to do.

I also agree there's a great need to improve public transport, which is the key to the problem. As someone else has already pointed out, as the demand for public transport grows, so the pressure will grow to improve it as those of us who are prepared to tolerate its shortcomings for occasional use will be less so if we become dependent on it.

I don't want my children, or their children to inherit an environmental disaster.
Do you have children Steve S1 & Henners?

555 perhaps you should actively encourage your offspring or offspring's offspring from not breeding at least you will then not be worried about the nth generation of your dynasty suffering from excessive heat, lack of oxygen and food and water.

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Originally posted by 555:
I don't want my children, or their children to inherit an environmental disaster.
Do you have children Steve S1 & Henners?

I'm concerned for other people's children too - are you scrambling for some sort of moral high ground (again)?

i'm also concerned that they don't end up working longer and longer for the government.

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555 perhaps you should actively encourage your offspring or offspring's offspring from not breeding at least you will then not be worried about the nth generation of your dynasty suffering from excessive heat, lack of oxygen and food and water.

Perhaps you should stop rambling & use punctuation Derek?

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I'm concerned for other people's children too.

A weak attempt to side-step my question Steve, & I take it you do have children.
No doubt your kids will be proud of their dad's attitude to the environment.

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... are you scrambling for some sort of moral high ground (again)?

No - that's your conscience trying to guide you.

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I'm also concerned that they don't end up working longer and longer for the government.

So it's all about you Steve?

gosh 555 is a forum cop - checking on our spelling and punctuation as well as telling people to do what he says and not what he does.

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Originally posted by Derek Wright:
gosh 555 is a forum cop - checking on our spelling and punctuation as well as telling people to do what he says and not what he does.

Yes apparently splitting posts over many lines and supplying us with a line of wisdom to each (unconnected) point helps you choose which questions you answer.

I'm still unclear as to whether he thinks we should just all continue to pay up for an ever fatter government using the environment as an excuse to raise more tax, hey ho.

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gosh 555 is a forum cop

No Derek; my point was that I could make no sense of your rambling post.

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telling people to do what he says and not what he does.

How so?

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I'm still unclear as to whether he thinks we should just all continue to pay up for an ever fatter government using the environment as an excuse to raise more tax..

Hmm - there are some people beyond help ...

555
Perhaps you should actively encourage your offspring or offspring's offspring from not breeding.

At least you will then not be worried about the nth generation of your dynasty suffering from excessive heat, lack of oxygen and food and water.

If you want I can put in a larger font

I think what grieves people the most, is that the government is keeping its percentage tax on the ever increasing pump price (for argument’s sake, 80%), rather than taking a fixed amount (80p). They are not helping people afford fuel as they are receiving more and more tax as the prices go up. This is being hidden by the “Green” veil that the government is so keen on promoting.
Motorists have been paying far more than is ever spent on the roads for years now, so where is the remainder going?
The government already gets 17.5% of your money when/if you buy a new car, you then pay road tax and insurance tax. You then pay fuel tax to run the car plus the VAT from any servicing and parts you need to keep your car running.

Yes car usage needs to be more intelligent, but it is an essential part of many people’s lives. My 25minute car journey to work (and yes I do lift share whenever possible) would take 2 hours by public transport – I do not see it as a viable alternative if I am ever going to see my wife and soon to be born baby for more than 2 hours a day.
Heaven forbid I would ever want to see my parents (or them, me) who live 150miles away…. it’s going to cost me too much soon. But then family values have long since been abandoned by the government….

I want to be able to take the green option, but until the government stops using it as another means of taxing me for no actual green solution, then I will continue to resent them and their so-called “Green” taxes.

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Perhaps you should actively encourage your offspring or offspring's offspring from not breeding.

At least you will then not be worried about the nth generation of your dynasty suffering from excessive heat, lack of oxygen and food and water.

If you want I can put in a larger font

I'm worried about the future of the planet,
due to the damage we are doing to the environment.

About my children (limited to two) & their (possible) children - my point was it seems to me most people don't think beyond the cost of the next vehicle fuel top-up, let alone how their actions will affect the Earth in the next 10, 100 or 1000 years.

If you would do as I want please engage your brain Derek.

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I think what grieves people the most ...

All good & sensible points jagster.