ken's active sbl system
Posted by: ken c on 16 April 2001
just a short update on my active system. i installed it last wednesday. it is obviously not yet fully warmed up but there is a very powerful aspect of the system that is beginning to surface already - and quite emphatically -- INTIMACY. lots of it. vocals, especially female -- are becoming very seductive. very seductive indeed. and that clarity. not the cold "20 ft between players" type, but clarity which makes for a very coherent and musical effect. all very positive.
slight negative -- system is now even more revealing, and ruthlessly so. so some of my cd's are now not worth playing at all -- too many rough edges. however, the majority are vastly better. another negative -- on some records, bass is a bit overblown/overpowering -- i am not too bothered about this right now -- i expect the balance will be better when the system is fully warmed up.
and in any case, my cd2 will soon make way for cdsii -- that should clean things up even more -- and i know the rest of the system will thank me for the better signal...
whoever recommended june tabor's "anthology", i thank you. i have played this several times before, passive -- on the active system now -- its totally transformed. astonishing!!!
i will give it 5 or more days and post another report, if there is interest.
meantime...
enjoy...
ken
quote:
In passive mode the sound was still in the box. In active mode the sound comes free. The soundstage is wider, higher and even deeper. Voices and instruments now have shape/body where before they seemed a bit flat. Adding body also means that the system is doing a better job with timing. Music seems to flow better and dynamic swings can be frightening
oh man, i couldn't have put it better myself... many thanks.
enjoy...
ken
bruce, welcome to the naim forum. i hope it will be as positive an experience as it has been for me. its (very) nice doing business with naim too.
you wanted to know my system components - here they are:
lp12/armageddon/prefix/aro /arkiv I - turntable on audiotec table
52/supercap/hicap/snaxo/2x250/sbls
nat02
prior to active, i had the hicap powering the prefix, now it powers the snaxo. quite soon, i will have a supercap powering the snaxo so the hicap can return to its prefix duties. prior to active, i obviously had only one 250.
i have to mention that my old (very old) 250 was very thoroughly serviced by naim and its now effectively a new 250 -- casing and all, and its sounds fab too. i bought the other 250 second hand -- but this (and the supercap) have since been replaced by naim, after, ehhhmm.., a little accident.
unbelievable first rate support.
oh, i should perhaps mention that the sources and 52 are on isoblue rack, and the power supplies and amplifiers are on projekt.
enjoy...
ken
john lee hooker was live in my room last night. so was cassandra wilson. al green also paid a short visit.
i am confident the balance will sort itself out during the next 8 days or so. if not, there is always the snaxo adjustments to match my room...
many thanks again.
enjoy...
ken
I would be interested if you could expand a bit on your impression that the SBLs were sounding a bit overblown in the bass. Now that things have run-in a bit have things improved ?
What size room are they in, how far away from the wall are they and have you tried moving them into the rooom a little further ?
I'm really interested to know how things go as I'm getting some SBLs over this weekend and I'm keen to get these speakers working in my 14ft x 11ft room without bass problems. If I can - they're gonna be mine.
Allan
apologies if my comments put your off a bit. they were very specific to my current set up and not a specific comment on sbl's.
GO GET those SBL's !!! i have owned this beauts for more than 5 years now, and love them to bits. what will you drive them with??? is this passive or active??? let us know how you get on...
enjoy...
ken
I'm going to be running these SBLs passive with a couple of 135's (CDS2/52 upfront). I've had an old pair of SBLs in this room before and encountered bass problems, thats why I'm a bit twitchy.
Since then though I've changed the 250 for 135s (which are tighter and faster) and the 82 for a 52 (helps with bass quality if not quantity). Plus, the ones I'm trying this weekend are pretty much current spec being only one year old (and in Cherry - lovely)
Just to make it a bit more interesting I'm also getting a pair of Credo's here at the same time. The thing about the Credo is that the bass is more tuneable than with the SBL. The SBL always needs to be fairly close to the wall, the credos have far more flexibility re. wall placement. Maybe room compatibility will win-out over ultimate performance ?
I'll certainly be giving those IBLs of mine a bit of a run for their money over the next few days. Yee-ahh !
Allan
Please let me know how you get on with the SBL/Credo's this weekend. I am in a very similar position to you in that I have very small room and same source/amps etc. I'm using Kans as a stop gap. I'm also going to give the Linn Tukans a listen soon.
Steve
enjoy...
ken
quote:
... but I've found the IBLs to be definitely superior in the mids and highs...
i recall a review, i think by Chris Thomas, a long time ago, i think in Flat Response, where i think he observed that the treble on ibl's was if anything, sweeter than on sbl's -- or words to that effect.
i lived with a pair of ibl's for a while before upgrading to sbl's looking for the scale i was used to with isobariks. i suppose its this lack of scale that was ibl's undoing??? but what a cracker of a little speaker --- i suspect ibl's are quickly gaining serious vintage value.
enjoy...
ken
system continues to mellow down. instruments sound more and more real. for example, piano sounds more "fluid" with appropriate music. intimacy and emotion continues to increase, and the worry/paranoia factor continues to decrease rapidly.
one thing i have noticed i make is that the system seems to have changed the way i listen to music somewhat. prior to now, i have been very sensitive to that pow sound of tum tums and the kick-ass sound of bass drums -- now my attention is being directed more at the "tune" of the drums if there is any... and the subtle nuances of the mix.
at first this kind of bothered me a little -- but there is so much else that is being revealed now that this (apparent reduced slam) has really become less of a concern -- again, this could all be part of the warm up cycle. or just cd2 weaknesses beginning to show thru. i wish my record player was here and in top form...
another observation is the feeling i get, especially with jazz recordings, of real excitement and tension amongst the performers as they get into the groove -- and that rubs on me --which makes for an exciting playback. i picked this up especially on the concorde jazz cd's... and also on dave brubeck's "blue rondo ala turk".
more later, if there is interest...
enjoy...
ken
quote:
more later, if there is interest...
Ken, keep it coming.
BTW, the Credo's and SBLs are in the house. Done the IBL vs Credo thing, now just waiting for the SBL's silicone to cure. Grrr!
Allan
by the way, the change in my system since yesterday is probably the most noticeable -- to me, especially the mellowing -- you only have to play "folk singer" and ... wow!!!
enjoy...
ken
I've now done the IBL vs SBL thing - this was far easier than I expected (it was all over in less than 30 seconds).
Its late, I'll write it up tommorow. (he-he)
Allan
being presumptuous, i KNOW you will be very happy with your SBL's. they will take a while to seriously sing while the silicone stuff is "curing".
let us know how you get on. you are going active, aren't you?? in that case, prepare to be totally and utterly consumed!!!
enjoy...
ken
Okay, your right. Details tomorrow.
Allan
well, rub it in he did today -- because in my now active system, the differences between the cdi and cd2 are now very clear indeed -- the most obvious difference being that the cdi has a much more open and musical lower end -- its as if the proverbial curtain has been lifted for these frequencies. this could just be the cd2 crying out for a service - 4 years old now -- but it will soon be replaced anyway, so i am not sure i will bother.
enjoy...
ken
The system continues to change substantially as it warms up and, in addition to enjoying the music, I am also learning a lot about my records and system in the process. I still feel the system is not at full throttle yet – and that there are still a few layers of music yet to be unveiled.
Allow me to attempt to describe how the system is performing – accepting that describing such things runs the risk of degenerating into mumbo jumbo pseudo-psychology. Apologies in advance. I hope that what I say below will communicate some useful information to you. So, here we go.
Last night and this morning, the most significant change I noted is more presence in the sound. I tend to leave the system on Radio overnight. Of late, I had been disappointed with sound quality from Capital Radio – feeling that it lacked any coherence and was quite a bit overpowering, lacking focus, so to speak. Also made me think there was far too much treble, and not clean treble at that.
Well, last night before retiring to bed (after a long record playing session) I tuned to Capital Radio and prepared to leave my office. But I didn’t. Something stopped me. That sound. It as now much more focussed and purposeful. It must be good mains – I thought – at 0300hrs – not too many people making tea!! Well, this morning – its exactly the same – if not better. The sound is now more securely anchored. Human voice is now more resonant. The bass is more sure. So this seems to be a more fundamental change after all.
I have now also played a few CDs today. I noted that each instrument now has more of its own breathing space, so components of the mix do not “stumble” on each other. Despite this increased instrument separation – the music is even more coherent and there is a definite enhanced sense of “performance”. Makes you want to dance. Voices are now more “in the room”. Sound is more “out of the boxes”. In most cases, I listen to music from my desk while working, but today I was forced to leave my desk and sit on the sofa further back in my office -- the system was now demanding that little more attention. Vastly increased sense of ease. And very persistent lingering tunes well after the record has finished. Good sign in my book.
Yet, annoyingly, I continue to have this feeling of lack of “slam” from percussion – and its nagging me. Example, Dave Brubeck’s “Take Five”. There is the bit where Joe Morello really lets rip – this is now somewhat muted in my active system. However, its not all negative. As I said in my last report – instead of the sheer brute force, somethinng else has been put in its place. I am now hearing much more of the “tune” in the drums – and all the nuances -- and its really fascinating – and this particular record now sounds very different because of this. i kid myself that i can now tell whether he is brushing clockwise or anticlockwise!!!
On the lack of slam, I have also to remember also that my SBL’s had new tweeters installed a few weeks ago, so perhaps these need to be fully run in before this next layer of music is unveiled and the system kicks ass again…
Will report more in a few weeks time, again only if there is interest…
Enjoy…
Ken
Plenty of interest here. Keep on reporting.
Allan
quote:
..I also turn up the volume much louder than I used to...
me too. befoe i would not play beyond volume 9 o'clock, unless i wanted to drill my ears. these days, i can go to 11 oclock and the system is still not uncomfortable to listen to.
as i say, this may be one of those things that i have to learn about how i listen. however, i sort of suspect that my slam will come back one day ... just you wait.
marcus, many thanks.
enjoy...
ken
ron toolsie, its all your fault:
quote:
Go for it!Even using the Snaic-5 power output on a Supercap will give results far in advance of a Hicap...
when i disconnect my system to install supercap, i will also get my NACA5 cable re-terminated with naim plugs -- i might do the soldering myself if i feel confident enough.
i will let you guys know when its all installed and run in.
enjoy...
ken
The Supercap is a great addition to any active system, but don't you think your money is better spent on your source? I know its hard to pass up a deal, but a CDS MkI would blow your mind and give you that "slam" you have been looking for. SBLs, espically active, are ruthlessly revealing of your source and deserve the very best. I still think the CDS MkI is the best bargan in hi-fi today.(Beats the CDX/XPS and is upgradeable to a MkII!)
I have enjoyed reading about your progress. Glad to see you are noting the "tune". Is really the most important aspect of music listening. Keep up the reports.
Chris Bell,
CDS2/52/500/DBL/IS REMARKABLEE
Just in case you have an older CD version of Time Out: There’s a relatively new one on Columbia Legacy, number 65122, which is HDCD-encoded. Has more hiss, but also more clarity. The drum solos are certainly quite enjoyable on that one.
Keep the reports coming!
Thomas
thomas k: i will definitely get that version of "time out" -- and thanks for letting me know.
enjoy...
ken
quote:
when i disconnect my system to install supercap, i will also get my NACA5 cable re-terminated with naim plugs
Ken,
from bitter experience (e.g. Naim->airlok plugs at same time as Ekos rebuild) I would have to advise you to make these two changes separately.
Perhaps you should do the plug-change first, as this swapout is safe to do without powering the system down. Unplug cables from the amp end first, and re-plug the speaker end first. Also, break the red connection before the black, and reconnect black first.
The Supercap will make a big improvement in your system. If the Naim plugs are not to your liking this will be masked by those improvements, but you won't know it.
Actually, as I think about this, do the Supercap upgrade first, and let it settle. Some of the cable & table choices I have made in the past have been to compensate for inadequate sources.
quote:
Yet, annoyingly, I continue to have this feeling of lack of “slam” from percussion
you active system should be going substantially deeper than the passive one.
A friend with SBLs had a serious bass speed problem because of 20 & 40Hz room modes when firing down the room. He had to move to firing across the room to get a better balanced sound.
The extra deep bass may have been useful when he had lesser sources & pre-amp (CDX, 82+2xHi), but were a problem with CDS-II & 82+Super.
The better system may be more difficult to setup to cope with a wider bandwidth & greater dynamics, but it's very obvious when things snap into place.
Best of luck.
cheers, Martin