Plasma Screens and related

"What other boxes do I need in addition to what I have (see below)..."

To do what?

I guess that the audio portion of your system would be unaffected by the change from tele to plasma unless you get a plasma that does not have a TV tuner in it.

And be sure the plasma has all of the hookups you will need (SAT, DVD, VCR, TiVO, video game, or whatever).

- GregB

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Without knowing which plasma screen you are thinking of or what connections it has, I suspect you will probably require an RGB to VGA converter. Something like this: RGB to VGA.

Route your Satellite box through the DVD player and connect the DVD player to the converter. Most plasmas have a composite video connection, use this for your VHS player.

'Traditional' plasma screens should be thought of as just big computer monitors. Some of the more recent models come with something called a media box to help solve the problems of connection to domestic equipment.

Allan

[This message was edited by Allan Probin on FRIDAY 11 April 2003 at 16:26.]

If the plasma offers component connections for its inputs, wouldn't this be a better choice? Our Mitsubishi offers components on most of its inputs.

- GregB

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In the UK RGB is more commonly found on domestic video equipment. Component connections are available but not seen as often. The Satellite box is almost certain to have RGB but not component.

I don't think anyone can give plynnplynn a definitive answer unless we know what types of video connections his equipment has and what the plasma will accept.

Are you asking if component connections are better (visually) than RGB ?

I believe component connections are better than RGB and better than S-Video. Don't know if this holds true for UK equipment though.

- GregB

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All display devices, at some point, have to convert the signal to RGB before it can be displayed. Component seems to be becoming popular because thats the format the signal is stored in on a DVD. It still has to be converted to RGB though at some point.

Which is better ? depends if the component to RGB conerter in the DVD player is better than the component to RGB convertor in the display device.

The exception to this tends to be digital and 100Hz TVs where the video signal is processed in the component domain. In this case it definitely will be better to feed the TV set with a component signal. If you feed it RGB you'll end up with an additional conversion to component prior to being converted back to RGB again.

Allan

I would guess that most, if not all, plasma displays are digital.

- GregB

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All plasmas are 'digital' because they have a digital display panel but that doesn't mean they have to convert all non-component inputs to component in order to do the signal processing that a domestic 'digital' TV does (so called becuase of the digital video processing not the type of display used).

As to the question about plasma or projector - depends on conditions it will be used in. If it will be to replace a TV in a room with ambient light then plasma. If you want a really big picture and accept that it will only be useful when used in a room that can be darkened then projector.

Allan

As always - your going to have to do some research!!

Personally I borrowed a couple of projectors from work and tried them at home over a couple of weekends. One was LCD and the other DLP. The positive was an ENORMOUS picture, a really cinematic feel. The downside included: Noise and having to keep the room darkened.

My feeling is that if you have a dedicated room then a projector might be a good way to go. If the room you use is general purpose, the living room for instance, then think VERY carefully.

Plasma is the way I chose to go. Not all plasma are alike! I looked at a number before deciding on mine - due to the way blacks were rendered. I also chose the 37" over a 42" as it works better in my 12' x 14' living room. I felt that the 42" screen showed the pixel structure more. As always get some demo's. There are big variations in the picture quality.

Personally I use component outputs and had my DV88 upgraded to output progressive scan PAL - the picture is fantastic. A magnitude better than RGB/S-video. I've never done a comparison with straight component.

BE AWARE that progressive scan introduces a processing time overhead. This leads to lip sync issues.

I don't watch TV but I believe that getting SKY and your other bits to work correctly / seemlessly can be a pain.

I used to use a E490 with my main system with no probs - so I would anticipate that your AX630SE will be fine.

I would have serious worries about the picture quality from your VCR. If this is important to you I would definitely ensure you try it out during any demo you set up.

the interlacing on the good plasmas is up to the job! i.e the picture should be great eaven without component source. But if you were to get the 598 meridian or DV88+ i can see a satisfactory point in using the best format. Nec´s plasmas are really good, definatly worth a peek.

Good luck Brad

...on screens in a shop can be darn near useless. A bit like demoing speakers

"Not all plasma are alike! I looked at a number before deciding on mine - due to the way blacks were rendered."

For the most part, this is a calibration issue. And even at the price of plasma, the sets do not come calibrated

Our Mitsubishi is very tweakable - geometry, overscan, color decoding, defeatable scan velocity modulation, etc. So I have the picture just the way I like it. I don't know about the adjustability of plasmas. I would guess that focus and convergence do not need to be done.

- GregB

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I would guess that focus and convergence do not need to be done

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For all practical purposes, a plasma is 'perfect'. It is because of this that a good 480 line plasma will blow most '625' line TV's away.

Allan

"For all practical purposes, a plasma is 'perfect'."

...I've seen some look dreadful, particularly in how they can blur movement. It seems that each technology brings its unique artifiacts to bear on the picture.

We considered plasma but really wanted a 55" or larger screen. At the time we bought, this was at the max limit of flat teles and at a cost of over $10,000.

Downside to the Big Box we have is that it buggers up the sound of the hi-fi a bit. Will have to see how the Allaes do.

- GregB

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Greg,

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...on screens in a shop can be darn near useless. A bit like demoing speakers
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I didn't suggest this. As a for instance I was left with two screens for an hour attached to a good system. I took along a couple of films I know well to do the comparisons.

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On the rendering of blacks you state = For the most part, this is a calibration issue. And even at the price of plasma, the sets do not come calibrated
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On the screens above I spent an age trying to get one screen to match the Panasonic 42. When the blacks were good the other screen was unacceptable in other ways.

I finally got the Panny TH-37 PW5. I did a LOT of leg work: reading and, especially, viewing.

[This message was edited by Mr Underhill on FRIDAY 11 April 2003 at 19:29.]

...I didn't mean to imply that you bought the wrong screen or anything like that. Just that comparing screens in a shop, even with your own source material, is dodgy.

Consider that most manufacturers crank up the contrast (what is referred to as "torch mode" in the trade) and some deliberately skew the greyscale towards one color or the other for a specific, showroom, purpose. Shifting towards a blue balance makes the image look brighter, shifting towards red avoids greened-out skin tones and can make the image look sharper, for instance.

What mattered to me when buying was which sets would offer the facilities for the user to fix these outrageous factory defaults - many sets do not!

I've not researched the plasmas so don't know what the story is there.

- GregB

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Thanks folks
I don't know much about the technologies yet but I am listening to what you say. Your replies have been very helpful. Given me lots of starting points! I will follow up with further Internet investigations and of course I must look at a few different plasma screens etc.
Terry

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Originally posted by Allan Probin:

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I would guess that focus and convergence do not need to be done

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For all practical purposes, a plasma is 'perfect'.

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Greg,

I went to the trouble of quoting the relevent line from your post but perhaps what I should have said was "for all practical purposes, a plasma is 'perfect' in this respect"

Allan

Now I geddit...

Sorry 'bout that.

- GregB

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One bargain on the plasma scene at the moment is the Toshiba 42WP27B is a re- badged Panasonic TH4PW5B which has had loads of good reviews.

It has an excellent contrast ratio which is a failing of many plasmas. The only thing I don't like aboutit (and it's a fault of all plasmas I've seen and some are really bad) is "False Contouring", this is generally observed when there is a gradient of low level colour such as a candle, I've attached a picture to show you what I'm on about.

It's very subtle and took me a while to spot it but now I know it's there it I tend to look for it (with the old TV it was the geometry not being 100%).

I’m not sure how much of this is due to the screen itself or artefacts from conversion of the video signal to the plasma screen (best images I’ve heard come from using a dedicated video scaler) . Another gripe is video switching with S-SVHS, RGB, PC, Composite so I’m waiting to see the specs of Naim’s VS1 but if it does all I’d like I bet it’s going to cost.

To err is human; to really foul it up requires a computer.

[This message was edited by Stuart M on FRIDAY 11 April 2003 at 21:43.]

Here's the setup.

Room to be re-arranged soon so the IBL's won't be in front of a radiator. BTW anyone got any tips on how to remove the bounce from a wooden floor, been told cross bracing between the joists should do the trick, anyone tried this?

To err is human; to really foul it up requires a computer.

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"False Contouring", this is generally observed when there is a gradient of low level colour such as a candle,

It's very subtle and took me a while to spot it but now I know it's there it I tend to look for it (with the old TV it was the geometry not being 100%).

Another gripe is video switching with S-SVHS, RGB, PC, Composite

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Stewart

Here's my system based around a the Panasonic 42"which always seems to get rated as a best buy. I am preey happy with it, it has a good contrast ratio and bright image.

I see the same thing halo effect as you do on when I am watching Digital Cable, which should be a pretty good picture. Ironically images off VCR and from the tuner on the VCR which I use as a "tuner" for the Plasma is much better.

I know what you mean about signal connections. Onmine you can't have both Composite & SVideo at the same time so without the scaler it has to be composite unless I spend some money. Still it's good enough for the news!

I use component for DVD together with Region 1 NTSC DVD's which I can view in Progressive Scan. This gives a great picture with none of the "haloing"effect at all.

They are finally allowing progressive scan for PAL region 2 now which is good news.

regards GEOFFP

OOPS! no photo so here it is...

regards

GEOFFP

Don't underestimate an earlier comment about lip-sync issues with plasmas. I run audio from the DVD player straight into the pre-amp. The video component signal goes from the DVD player straight to the plasma (Panasonic 42" TH-42PW4AZ), which then converts it back into digital (!), deinterlaces and scales it to fit the screen. All this processing inside the plasma delays the video signal, so that I hear the sound before I see the lips move or stick hit the drum or whatever.

Even running region 1 discs (NTSC format, 480 visible lines) in progressive mode to match the 480 line resolution and ensure minimum processing inside the plasma, I STILL see the delay on some discs -- very annoying. Be warned, try before you buy if possible. Or run the audio through an AV processor so that you can introduce a delay to match the delayed video signal.

Mark R

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Even running region 1 discs (NTSC format, 480 visible lines) in progressive mode to match the 480 line resolution and ensure minimum processing inside the plasma, I STILL see the delay on some discs -- very annoying. Be warned, try before you buy if possible. Or run the audio through an AV processor so that you can introduce a delay to match the delayed video signal.

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Right now there are not that many true video scalers offered in the domestic market as understand it.
Lecktropaks has a couple of gizmo boxes they claim do scaling but at the price level they offer I would not expect too much.
Tag-McClaren has announced a serious video scaler which will be suitably expensive!!
They also offer a programmable lip sinc delay from what I understand, BUT what about the bog standard processors?
I have a DENON AVR3802 which does nothing to help lip sinc so like Mark I have to live with it.
That said I do not see it very much [ and try not to notice it if I can ] on NTSC progressive scan (region1). Also like Mark I pump the video signal from the DVD direct to the plasma which gives best signal purity but does not involve the processor.

regards GEOFFP

I am surprised, that no one from naim made advertising for their forthcoming VS1

Please naim, could you do also make a VS1+ with an integrated tv-tuner? Probably even PalPlus capable?? That would give all plasma or beamer users the oportunity to forget the mediocre boxes from these makers and have a great all-in-one solution

happy listening

Adrian