Beethoven's Voilin Concerto

No expert by any means, but I have a copy on vinyl which I like alot with Josef Suk - New philharmonic Orchestra London under Sir Adrian Boult on EMI

Regards
Mark

I have always liked Arthur Gruimieux w/ Colin Davis conducting. There is a bargain 2 CD set available in the Phillips Duo series with the Beethoven, Brahms, Mendelssohn, and Tchiakovsky concertos by Gruimieux. Hard to go wrong with that!

For me there is no substitute of the 1942 recording from Furtwangler and the Berlin Philharmonic. The soloist on that occasion, Erich Rohn was the orchestra's leader. It is a powerful and achingly beautiful reading.

However, and it's a big however, given the recording was made in Nazi Germany there are some who, for perfectly understandable reasons, refuse to play it.

Also worth noting that the mono sound (while not the worst), is far from ideal.

If you can put up with those caveats, it deserves a place in your collection. It can be had in this excellent set of wartime recordings:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Furtwangler-Live-Recordings-194...id=1182201405&sr=1-4

Or on its own:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sibelius-Beethoven-Violin-Conce...id=1182201527&sr=1-9


Furtwangler later recorded the concerto with Menuhin (after the war, so free of the ethical issues - but not such a fine performance):

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mozart-Symphony-Beethoven-Violi...id=1182201405&sr=1-2


There is also a rather fine reading from Schneiderhan/Jochum and the BPO (coupled with a Mozart concerto), but it's Rohn/Furtwangler that I would take to my desert island.


regards, Tam

Thank you all for your replies.
Since posting my question I have found the (Classical Threads Worth Reading) thread by Tam 14th June very helpful.The Oistrack or Josef Suk recommendations seem worth following up.
I have set myself two problems. To find the definitive version of each piece and also to find a mint Vinyl copy of it as well.
Should keep me busy for years.
R

Rockhopper,
Just looking for a definitive version of almost any popular classic will keep you busy. And just when you have found it, you realise that you prefer another.
Have fun!
Ken

Dear Rockhopper,

Enjoy the happy world of investigating the music of the great composers in great performances.

Two of my favourites have been mentioned Here. Suk and Grumieaux, but also you might consider finding David Oistack's recording for EMI/HMV.

On a different level, there is absolutleu no such thing as a definitive recording! Even a composer performance will have no more than compelling authority!

If a definit8ve recording were ever to came along [though who would decide which it is!] then all others would obviously soon be deleted as no one would want to buy them as they were not definitive!

May I also advise that any favourite piece, you should aim to have a minimum of two or three great recorded performances.

This avoids "learning" the music in one version, and finding difficulty with others after a while. This is particularly the case if you completely used to one recording, when attending a concert. You may find it is fairly different and a shok!

For music you will play often the more versions the better!

I cannot remember now but I think I have about five records of the Violin Concerto and have or have had each one mentioned above.

Have fun!

ATB from Fredrik

I'd second what Ken says. Certainly I have favourites of many pieces, but I don't think I would use the term definitive to describe any of them. It isn't the point: there are so many different, yet equally valid and satisfying approaches to all great pieces. Which, of course, is one of the great joys of classical music.

I have no idea as to the vinyl availability of my recommendations, though I suspect the Rohn/Furtwangler is not available (as for many years those wartime recordings were tough to track down - the Russians had carted them back to Moscow). The Schneiderhan/Jochum certainly will be.


regards, Tam


[edit] Fredrik - I see you have beaten me to it while I was taking my time typing! I must check out the Suk and Oistrakh. I have the latter in the sonatas with Oborin, performances I very much enjoy.

Dear Tam, and Rockhopper,

My way of investigating my favourite repertoire is to find a favourite artist like Edwin Fischer, David Oistack, or whoever, and buy any recording from them, adventurous or conservative, and so I end up with some lovely and slightly out of the way readings of great music, and great music, previously unknown to me! A hunt through what was in my record library [linked by Tam's "... worth reading" Thread] shows my collection sometime last years after more than thirty five years of additions and subtractions. It has evolved since then so perhaps I will post it again in a current version one day soon!

This works better with older recordings as nowadays a fashionabe artist will record far more than his predecessors in the olden days, when the very fact an artist made a recording of a work would be seen as an indication that the music was important to him or her. And not merely a commercial gramophone issue designed to attrack the listener, as much for the fashionability of the performer as his or her particular way with the music...

Sometimes I have followed up the recomendations of others for a specific performance by an artist new to me. Then spreading out starts all over again!

I also [as Tam knows!} ruthlessly prune my library! If I no longer enjoy a recording of music I love it is given to Oxfam or sold second hand, or even with a caution given to a friend! I have never been convinced that many more than 1000 records/CDs is particularly essential!

Happy listening from Fredrik

Dear Fredrik,

I've become a little more ruthless in pruning my library of late (and recently gave away a number of CDs). But I'm still buying far more than I'm losing (and most of those I've got rid of lately are ones I bought that didn't take).

I wholeheartedly endorse the idea of exploration by favourite artist - many areas of my collection only exist because of it: I wouldn't have a fraction of the Janacek I do without Mackerras.

I'm not sure I agree about how much more prolific recording artists are today. Perhaps when compared to 60 years ago, but Karajan and Solti were hardly slouches. And even Jochum managed to record the symphonies of Brahms and Burckner at least twice each and Beethoven thrice (the middle of which, with the Concertgebwou, are still sitting on my to be listened to shelf).

Of course, some artists were/are much more select, Giulini would be a classic example (though in certain regards he was quite prolific - I recently picked up a 4th recording of the Verdi Requiem with him conducting). Contrast with Mackerras's vast a varied discography (including everything from Handel to Beethoven, Gilbert and Sullivan and Janacek and Britten). Both are extraordinary conductors in their different ways.

You mention the library thread - worth a look, though I've bought an awful lot of CDs in the last year or so, and mine too now needs updating and a number the favourites have changed.


regards, Tam

Dear Tam,

Karajan was really [after Toscanini] the first conductor to become a media phenomenon. Solti was the Decca answer to EMI and DG with Karajan. In many ways Karajan's reputation would be higher if he had made fewer recordings. Some of his are among the best, but too many seem to be a routine question of what is being recorded this week! Unfortunately this very drive to record for "cult of personality" reasons also blighted Klemperer, who certainly did too many poor recordings in his last decade. But he was pursuaded, when perhaps he should have done what Boult did in extreme old age and simply decline to make records he was not keen on doing. Klemperer's reputation has been damaged by some of these late recordings. Boult's reputation grew, because he would only record what he wanted and when in his later years, when he was being lionised. Before that Boult made relatively few records, which is odd given all his work in the BBC studios.

Of course it is a relative thing! Menuhim made many reordings of Beethoven's Violin Concerto, and yet only one [Lucerne in 1947 for HMV] strikes me as being so fine as Grumiaux' reading in his recordings! Menuhin was the first violinist to be actively promoted for his own self as much as the works he recorded. This really started when as a child he was selected to record Elgar's Violin Concert with the composer [chosen by the record producer Fred Gaisberg, and not Elgar, who agreed, but still wanted Kreisler - Sammons being unavailable for contractual reasons] on HMV in 1932. I wish Albert Sammons had done it with Elgar conducting, as they had performed the piece together many tens of times in the preceeding twenty years, but Sammons had set it down three years easlier with Sir Henry Wood. I prefer Elgar's conducting with Menuhin [a revelation in the orchestra] and Sammons in the solo part with Wood, where Wood is hardly Elgar's equal! Both recordings are essntial in my view. If the normal Elgar/Sammons [and they were good friends] performing partnership had been preserved, just imagine how fine the result might have been! Kreisler never wanted to record the work, oddly, even though he gave the premiere...

Just one more "might have been" record!!! Fredrik

What, no Heifetz?

There are several Heifetz recordings, my personal favourite would be from the late fifties with Charles Munch and the Boston Symphony.

The 1940 Toscanini with the NBC Symphony is best avoided and there is a 1945 recording but I can't recall the conductor or orchestra.

For a more recent recording Shlomo Mintz with the Philharmonia conducted by Sinopoli is good, and I heard a very interesting but strange recording by Gidon Kremer on the elatus label with Nikolaus Harnoncourt and the chamber orchestra of Europe which uses Beethoven's own cadenzas, written for the piano transcription of the work, using a piano!

quote:

Originally posted by Basil:
There are several Heifetz recordings, my personal favourite would be from the late fifties with Charles Munch and the Boston Symphony.

Hi Basil, that's a favourite of mine. Great stuff.

Regarding Toscanini, do you think there is any substance to the recollection (I think by Menuhin). The story goes that Menuhin was rehearsing with the Maestro at the piano when the phone rings. Apparently, Toscanini went over the telephone, which was on the wall, ripped it right off and then calmly sat down to continue without a word.

I don't know if it's true, but I sort of want it to be (if you know what I mean).

Steve

It wouldn't surprise me, I know a Toscanini expert I can ask.

Talking of Toscanini, I heard an unofficial recording of a radio broadcast of the Magic Flute over the weekend which features a less than perfect "Queen of the night" who badly fluffs the first solo, completely choking on the final "F" this is followed by some very loud crashing and banging which we think is Arturo smashing the place up in response!

For a modern reading you might try Joshua Bell. All famous pieces like this tend to polarise opinion and nearly every artist has something different to say when it comes to interpretation. You either need to find a decent lending library or get a lot of shelf space to find what you like. It will always be a personal judgment and no one can predict how you and and your ears interact with the recording. I love some recordings that are recognised dogs, but what the heck, they speak to me.

Dear Basil,

I once listened to a broadcast of the version of the Violin Concerto Beethoven made for Piano. The first movement cadenza is a is quite a surprise with the timps making an entrance exactly reiterating the opening notes of the piece! Beethoven had an imagination! Did the Kremer performance simply implamt the piano during the cadenza? That sounds an odd solution, and was the Violin involved at all in this section?

Almost this combination can be found in the Triple Concerto which seems far rarer than it deserves. The version with Lev Oborin, Siatislaw Richter, [was Rostropovich or Fournier the Cellist on that?] with the Philharmonia under Sargent was the LP I had of it, and it was much nicer in my view than the set under Karajan also on EMI - blighted as it was by an elephantine and very porly balanced BPO recording: Bruckner's sound-world meets early Beethoven! To compensate close microphones are shaded in and out throughout, which is very off-putting!

Fortunately the older recording is still issued at budget price currently...

ATB from Fredrik

quote:

Originally posted by Basil:
The 1940 Toscanini with the NBC Symphony is best avoided

Half a mug of tea just shot down my nose! Have you heard the Naxos transfer? Ironically, I think if I had to choose two for my desert island I'd take the Heifetz/Toscanini and the Menuhin/Furtwangler.

The strange, driven, Kremer/Harnoncourt has much to recommend it if you don't mind the weird cadenza, and Shumsky's wonderful (digital) recording with Davis and the Philharmonia is (I think) still available on a budget label. Of the modern recordings, Mullova's with Gardiner is nice. (And of course one can have a jolly good think about VM whilst listening to it! ;-))

EW

Recordings by dead performers are all well and good, and I certainly enjoy my Heifetz LP very much. However, I do like to support living performers. Earwicker beat me to recommending Viktoria Mullova's and I also recommend Anne-Sophie Mutter's. Both are SACDs, which is an extra bonus, for me anyway. All of this reminds me that I need to get Hillary Hahn's; I just got her Paganini #1 and I think it is the best I have ever heard. Hahn's Brahms also is excellent: it gets spun at least once every couple of weeks.

Norman

I like to have recordings by great artists I could never listen to in concert, and support living performers by attanding their concerts. I rarely think that a recording is preferable to a concert, and therefore most of my recordings are of dead musicians! That seems sensible to me!

ATB from Fredrik

Recordings aren't preferable to concerts, but they are an invaluable means of conservation and they are getting horribly close to concert experience. Without them, many towering performances would be lost for all time. How would we get to hear what Toscanini or Kempff sounded like? Also, since most concerts these days seem to focus on the pop classics, how would we get to hear the 99 % of real classical music that rarely gets played? I've just received the programme for the local concert series in Victoria Hall, Hanley, and frankly I can't see a single concert worth turning out for. I might drag my ass out to see Janine Jansen, although I wonder if I can endure the Tchaikovsky concerto even with HER as the soloist.

Recordings are a blessing.

EW

Fancy that if all we had to go on was legend! Things could have got as they have in the modern concert hall, and all of us who bemoan the fact would be said to be talking of a rose tinted view of the olden days! But we have the "evidence" that the gramophone has preserved for us of "exactly" how far downhill things have gone, and how startlingly fast!

ATB from Fredrik