Are Alfa Romeos that bad?

A friend of mine has a 147 1.6 and whilst he enjoys driving it, the servicing is horrendously priced. His last service including cambelt was over £800!!!

I don't think he's had any mechanical or electrical woes, but his fuel economy averages not much more than 32mpg no matter how he drives. Nice looking motor though....

They're looking quite interesting with the new Q2 diff and twin-turbo diesel too.

They will have needed to improve a hell of a lot to be even good. They were typical Italian flash looks and noise,crap build and electrics.

I love cars, and I had an Alfa 145 Cloverleaf and later a 147 2.0 Selespeed.

The latter was the most dissapointing car I've ever onwed, and yet it says much for the marque appeal that I still look at every new Alfa when it is launched and wonder....

My car sufferred from a series of faults, each in its way annoying but the whole situation was made far, far worse by the dealer. I had paint faults, water leaks, recurrent electrical problems, suspension parts needed replacing, the traction control system never worked properly (and cut in on a straight road sometimes) and a charging problem that left me stranded 4 times before the dealer realised they'd 'forgotten' to inform me of a recall. Finally the Selespeed gearbox broke after 20,000 miles.

Every fault required three trips to the dealer, one where they refused to admit a fault existed, one where they agreed the fault was present and another when they finally had the parts. After a minor scrape I waited 3 months for a body panel because of poor parts supply.

All this was almost worth it. The interior was gorgeous, and it looked great on the driveway. However the real killer is that from an objective point of view it was not actually that special to drive. The 145 was actually more entertaining. The car is heavy for its class, not that quick and the economy is poor. The supension is old-style Alfa, slightly wallowing body control but crashy over bumps.

Read the reviews and forums onlione and you'll see the same faults and dealer woes again and again. You'll also find enthusiastic owners who really want the marque to improve. I bought one shortly after it was launched so perhaps things are better quality now, but frankly the facelift does it no favours. Resale values are grim,-ask yourself why!

If you are honestly thinking of buying a new 147 you should first drive it back to back with a Focus or a Golf. Boring? Maybe. However the sportier versions are actually better handling then the Alfa, and they now feel a generation more modern. If you absolutely must then negotiate a huge discount, do not under any crcumstances buy the Selespeed, and make sure your nearest Alfa dealer is easy to get to.

As for buying one secondhand, make sure the warranty has not expired, or pay to extend it.

The 147 replacement is not due for a couple of years. I'll probably send for the brochures when they arrive....

Bruce

As a confirmed Alfa lover I found it incredibly disappointing to drive when I tried one a couple of years back. It is also not a 'modern' Alfa with greater attention to detail in build and reliability.

At the same time I tried one of the new Golf GTi's with the 2.0 and it was a lot better than the Alfa and I quite liked it but the shock for me was when I tried the quick Astra - honestly, this was the best of the three in terms of fun. And I'm no fan of Vauxhalls usually.

That said, I decided I didn't want a hot hatch after all and found myself another, brand new ST220 for the same money. No contest.

I guess there's the old cliche that happy customers just get on with it whilst unhappy customers complain, but personally I'd be very wary of spending that sort of money on an Alfa, unless you live near the dealers, I've heard nothing but bad stuff tbh (about the cars and the dealers).

Also if you're planning on running it into the ground, or can simply afford it and want one fair enough, but Alfa's tend to depreciate quite heavily, OK few cars are investments, but it's something to take into account.

I've owned two Alfas - a 145 and a GTV. Both were beautiful to look at and both a pain in the butt to own. The 145 was much more reliable than the GTV hence the one replacing the other. The after sales support from the dealers and Alfa UK was dreadful - incompetant or ignorant.

If you want an Alfa like drive without the hassles I suggest you buy a Subaru - not exactly gorgeous to look at but with same attention to driving dynamics and noise of the Alfas - reliable and well built with good dealers.

The new range of Alfas are a major step up in build quality from the previous generation, ie the Brera & 159 as opposed to the 156.
The 147 is getting on a bit now, Alfa have a new small car being launched next year, & the 147 replacement is still a year or more away.
I have had a Brera for the last 10 months, & apart from poor fuel economy, its been superb. A mate of mine has had more trouble with his Audi A3 in the same time frame.
Stories of unreliable Alfas get highlighted "here we go again", but glitches with the German marques don't get the same degree of bad press, but are still too prevalent.
Alfa have to get past 2 main issues, 1st their dealer network aftersales service is not as good as the german rivals, & 2nd, they have to get over the preconceived cliche's of poor build quality. Both are major contributors to Alfas poor residual values.
When the last generation of 156/gtv era cars are no longer around (except for Alfisti's),the poor build quality cliche may disappear, but the memory of "buy an Alfa, buy the engine & get the rest of the car for free" may linger on.
I'd much rather have a 159 than its german/japanese equivalent.The 147 is a bit more risky. When the new model arrives, the value of the 147 will plummet. Get a good deal on one, & it may be worth going for.
http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/ may be worth a look.
Matt.

We had a 156 Sportwagon 1.8 TS for 3 years and the only thing that went wrong was the ECU (one of the most expensive parts - lucky it was a lease car). It was great to drive, but the local dealer was totally rubbish.

We drove a Focus with the smallest 1.6 Diesel while we were in Italy recently and it was great - nice to drive, economical and seemingly well screwed together. Most of the Italians we know would take a Focus over a 147.

Nigel

quote:

The new range of Alfas are a major step up in build quality from the previous generation, ie the Brera & 159 as opposed to the 156.

I hope that is the case. They've put prices up too though, 25-27k for a nice 159 estate for example. Without discounts they are very much competing at the Audi/BMW arena now, where the 156 etc used to have a bit of an advantage. You have to deliver the goods, and the aftercare, at that price point.

Bruce

This is why you buy an Alfa: beauty (& the beast: 3.2 V6 engine)

and another..

Soz, one more

Now this really is something. mind you not terribly relevant to showrrom Alfa's, it is based on an old generation Maerati and has a detuned Ferrari engine. Still gorgeous.

FF, the Cloverleaf must have been a great breakdown truck.

A few years ago I had a Spider. It lasted a whole year before it got written off in a BMW sandwich. So I simply bought another one. It was great for the four years that I owned it. It never had any problems and the depreciation was below average. I would happily have another one.


Nigel

I have a 145 with 90,000km on the clock - I've done 30k of that. I've had to replace the water pump so far - but that's all I've spent on it apart from maintenance. I do think a water pump should last longer than 90,000kms though.

But I love driving it. It's a front wheel drive that feels like a rear wheel drive when adjusting the throttle in corners. I'll never buy another make of car (unless I win the lottery...)

I recently drove a friend's diesel Xantia about 600kms on a road trip. Very nice. He drove my 145 on that trip the next day and the first thing he did on arriving in town was go to the Alfa Romeo dealers. He's a dyed in the wool Citroen fan and has a 2CV as well as the Xantia. The way he describes Citroen ownership is, "Pain. Unrelenting, unmitigated pain." Having just spent nearly $5,000 on his two Citroens, most of it on the Xantia which he bought new and which has $130,000km on the clock, I can see what he means. Alfa Romeo are not the only European marque that breaks down.

Nearly missed this thread! I'm with Blobdang on this one - I've had the 3.2V6 GT for a couple of years, and it's a beautiful drive - I nearly fell for the 147GTA with the same engine, but the fact there is no space behind the rear seats killed it for me, but I think the 147 is a good car (although the original styling is better). As others have said, the successor will be worth waiting for, and makes the BMW 1-series look a bit silly both looks- and price-wise.
The Alfa dealer network is a joke for servicing (at least, near me), so find yourself a good dedicated Alfa specialist like AutoLusso to look after you, and you won't go far wrong. (They'll also slash a few grand off the UK dealer prices - more money for an upgrade )
The only disappointment is the Italian V6 3.2 is no longer used, being replaced by a GM-based engine, so the beautiful Brera doesn't match up to the GT in that department.
I'm not related to James May, but passion and style is what you buy with an Alfa, warts and all. Oh, and did I mention the soundtrack?
I've done my time with German cars, and it would be difficult to go back.
Of course, that's assuming the cuore starts tomorrow morning......
Cheers
John

quote:

The way he describes Citroen ownership is, "Pain. Unrelenting, unmitigated pain."

Indeed, Citroen ownership is something that elicits blind passion from the marque's fans. They'll all freely admit that generally a pre-requesite to citroen ownership is a brain-ectomy; no sane (or at least, non-brainless)person would knowingly submit to a life of changing spheres etc., and the unusual complexity of Citroen.

Alfa ownership is similar, only it majors in denial. Denial that the brainectomy is required, or even exists. Yes I love the way they look and sound, prefer not to go there as I understand pain.

quote:

"....bought new and which has $130,000km on the clock, ..."

loved the $ symbol on milage, Deane. was that a fruedian slip?

quote:

Originally posted by Rico:

quote:

"....bought new and which has $130,000km on the clock, ..."

loved the $ symbol on milage, Deane. was that a fruedian slip?

Yes, just noticed that actually. Strangely, the Xantia's odometer and speedo reads in miles - not kms - strange because I thought the French were the original metric country.

We took the new C6 for a test drive a couple of weeks ago. A "decadent whale" were my friend's exact words. Very nice to drive and a lot firmer suspension than the Xantia. The head up display for speed was great. But $109,000? I'd get a 159 any day and still have money left for a Fiat runabout...

My girlfriend drives a '99 GTV 2.0TS, 17inch teledials, black with nice leather Momo interior. She was looking for a second hand car spotting this model in a carpark somewhere and never looked back (145000km on the clock). Of course there are a few glitches with a second hand Alfa and parts are expensive but every morning she walks to her car with a huge grinn on her face. And that 2.0TS is a very lovely engine.
A friend of mine drove a 159 estate in lease a couple of years ago and besides a problem with the gearbox he never had a problem with it. Even phoned me when he returned it to the leasecompany with something like 160000km on the clock because he thought I would be interested. Unfortunately it wasn't in my budget (I still drive a Renault 4 every day).

quote:

Originally posted by musfed:... but every morning she walks to her car with a huge grinn on her face.

Yep - every Alfa owner I know feels the same about their car. I enjoy driving mine between traffic lights and relish the opportunity to take it on a long trip. It makes me smile when I drive it - after two years of ownership. I don't steer it, I just think it in the direction I want it to go and it goes there precisely. And the boxer sounds great. Especially in second gear...

Agree totally with musfed & deane.
It would probably take a Porsche to get me to swap out of my Alfa.
I recognise that an M3, or certain Audis may be "better", but they are not for me.
Matt.

Great to look at and special to sit in since that knees bent arms stretched driving position has been long since addressed.. Not necessarily the greatest drive but not remotely bad either. The problem is that mud sticks even years after the fact. So from experience I still classify them as buggy and temperamental, impossible to fix if you get a bad one and backed up by a truly awful dealer network. Engines aside their beauty is only skin deep for me, which in this day and age could be my loss, but I won’t risk it.

Cheers

The Alfa is the only car that I've owned from new which has left me stranded on the hard-shoulder. When I buy a new car these days, I expect to reach my destination. The Alfa badge is not enough compensation for the unreliability, but I still kept it for over three years.

Aren't they owned by Fiat?