Understanding the use of equipment stands

"What I don't understand is the need to have solid state (ie Naim) equipment on damped stands when I would not have fault that solid state components could really be much affected by small vibrations."

Me neither but Naim obviously do as I they have introduced a basic form of suspension for the mounting of PCBs on the 552.

The question is, does this eliminate the need for a good stand of make it all the more important

You may well find that different types of equipment work best on different types of stand. I have my TT on one type and the amplification on another.

Regards
Steve

I have a hard time thinking of a Linn on a 'damped' stand - I always thougt the recommendation is for a rigid, light stand.

Phil

A long time ago I worked on developing drive systems for Electric Fork Lift Trucks. We used very high current DC supplies and similar components to audio circuits, i.e. rectifiers, polypropelene capacitors, low and high power transistors, and ran them at audio frequencies. What amazed me was that all these components could be made to sing at the frequency of operation, and in some cases had their own resonant frequencies, rather like a tuning fork.

I you have ever stood alongside a milk float when it starts off you may have heard the whistling the components make.

You might not think that this is significant at the power levels audio kit works at until you consider the high range of signals we can hear, 100dB or more.

I believe that even without feedback from the speakers, there is enough self generated vibration in components for them to excite the stand they sit on. Similarly if you shake or squeeze many of these components then they will generate or modulate the electrical signal running through them. These are totally different problems from isolating equipment from feedback from the speakers.

Ideally every component should be free to produce its own sound and this sound be dissipated into its mounting evenly, and regardless of frequency without effecting others. If its mounting either reflects the sound back at a particular frequency, or vibrates in sympathy then the electrical signal running through the component will be effected. This is really tough to stop, particularly when all the components are close to each other for other reasons.

The clever bit is to decide what components are effected the most and concentrate upon them just enough to avoid screwing other factors up. I've never tried this but I'm sure that if you just rested your stylus on the case of your naim kit and listened though a separate amp on headphones while the kit was driving a loud signal, you would hear that signal from the stylus. Low level (sensitive) and high current (sound producing) components seem to be important. Yet another reason for Naim having separate power supplies.

I personally believe that great improvements can be had from just removing the equipment from the listening room and then concentrating on a stand that damps and evenly absorbs the electrical equipments own vibrations. Even the Fraim must be a compromise in this regard.

John

Sorry, so long since I looked at it I think it's on an isolated stand, i.e. spikes everywhere, not damped! I have had it rather a long time and memory gets rather fuzzy past last week.

Steve.

quote:

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Originally posted by Phil Barry:
I have a hard time thinking of a Linn on a 'damped' stand - I always thougt the recommendation is for a rigid, light stand.

Phil

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Some 2 decades ago (then as a hi-fi journalist) I had the possibility to consult actually any expert in our country. Having accepted the fact that supports did add their sounds not even to turntables but actually to any type of equipment, I tried to consult all the professors available (where I mention not just lecturers but rather real professors and academy members), asking for some reliable scientific explanation of the auditive effect. They all had the opinion that the whole thing is a non-sense, since they could imagine absolutely no scientifically valid explanation. (Micro-vibrations and all that jazz on the first place. If one takes into account the order of magnitudes, then it really seems a bullshit.) They did not believe even to the existence of turntable supports.

In those years I was the Public Enemy Number One on the Electro-Acoustic Faculty of the Technical University Budapest.

graphoman

I was also skeptical that a rack could make such a huge difference until I got the Particular Novus.

The amazing thing that I realise is that the rack seems to absorb all vibrations. With my previous rack, if i get too excited and close the dust cover of turntable too hard and I can hear a distinctly loud ‘pop’ from the turntable. It no longer happens now.

I can even grab hold of the rack and shake it, and the turntable is not affected whatsoever.

Of course, other than the above, there were obvious improvements to the sound.

Interesting comments

Think I understand a bit more about it now.

Now for the crunch part, based on spending loads of money on an AV2 amongst other things I don't really have much money left.

Had a look at the Particular Novus as that was the last comment and nearly choked.

Any suggestions on stands around the 3-400 quid mark? It would be nice to get everything I've got on one stand which would include a video recorder (bad thing to do?) and a turntable, makes about 6 racks. The turntable has it's own stand anyway so that's not so important.

Had a couple in mind including Quadraspire & Apollo.

The shop I'm buying all this from says that wooden shelves would be better than glass, personally have no idea!

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Steve.

I was confident all the time about the role of a good equipment stand, but same as you the price of a Fraim scared my budget. All until one month ago when I manufactured my own Fraim based on the original design. The result is astonishing (both on sonic performance as well as appearance) and at a fraction of the price.
If anyone interested, I have also some photos.
Constantin

I have standard QS stands (Q4 I think their called) cost £250 for a 4 tier rack last year. I think its about £70 per shelf now so this falls within your budget.

Its not in the same league as Fraim and Mana, but you get what you pay for. They also come in a range of finishes to match most decor.

Try to keep the Linn on a separate stand, it will love you for it. Mine is currenly on top of the QS but only due to space considerations its lost something since being put there.