Fraim V Mana

Posted by: andy c on 28 February 2004

Hi,
I thought i'd tell y'all about my faffing about with the above racks etc

My wife gave me the ultimatum to sort the racks out for the final time, so I ordered what in effect would be the 'brains' rack, to house my 282/CDX2/stageline initially. if I liked it then I was going to add one more shelf to this for the Linn TT, and get a 2nd rack for the brawn items.

Well, off we went to Cymbiosis and collected the Fraim.
I then installed it next to the Mana rack (the picture of this is on the system pics 2004 thread).
I also re-installed the mana rack correctly, as per many helpful tips found on both this and the Mana forum. The fraim was set up according to Martin Payne's (excellent) instructions.

I cannot get away from the fact that some electronics are still on mana (more about that later).

In terms of construction and WAF there is no comparison. The Fraim looks the biz, and Shelley said it shows the Naim kit off perfectly. I had to agree. She said straight away she hoped the Fraim sounded better than the Mana - cos it wasn't going back LOL
I was impressed with the engineering prowess re the metal bits included but still felt the rack was a trite expensive.
However I think that Naim are quite rightly concered re colour matching of the wood etc bearing in mind this is a modular support.

In terms of sound it was quite strange initially. I say initially because I haven't done any serious listening to it until yesterday (Allowance for kit re-warm up etc).

I found the sound more 'see thru', with bass being better controlled. Bass guitars occupy a better 'space' than they did when the kit was on all Mana, and drums/percussion seems to be more alive.
Vocals seem to be more 'breathy', with less sheen on them - more natural.
I will be in a position to do a total Fraim v Mana listen next month, as the other rack will be arriving.

andy c!
Posted on: 28 February 2004 by neil w
andy
it looks like youve already done the comparisson as the other rack of fraim has already been ordered. we can see which one gives you what you want.

re veneer matching ive got 16 levels and only one looks dodgy, its got 3 diffrent veneers of maple on it

good choice

neil
Posted on: 28 February 2004 by scottyhammer
andy
sounds as if the missus has made the decision for you! i must admit the fraim does look the dogs b******s! also when i last did a sound demo
i thought it sounded pretty good too.
havent heard the mana though.
scotty
Posted on: 29 February 2004 by andy c
Hi Neil,
Thats reassuring re the veneers.
I have the maple finish, which i understand is an easier match than cherry according to my dealer. But I'm not taking any chances hence the pushing of the boat out re the second rack.

I was running out of space anyway, and one deciding factor was the modular Fraim against the set number of shelves for the Mana.
(so the Mana's up for sale)

My wife is very often the deciding factor in such purchases!!! Big Grin

[This message was edited by andy c on SUNDAY 29 February 2004 at 11:50.]

[This message was edited by andy c on SUNDAY 29 February 2004 at 12:02.]
Posted on: 29 February 2004 by andy c
ag,
it was wife pressure as to the asthetics that tipped me over the edge! LOL Wink

Seriously I did some comparisons re the cd player on one and then the other, and the presentation was v noticeeably differant.

The Mana is very good, and cured no end of problems at my old address (wooden suspended floor etc).
But the Fraim seems to sound more 'right' TME.

andy c!
Posted on: 29 February 2004 by Bosh
Andy

Have you got the SBLs on Mana SB1s. If so are you keeping them?

Wonder if Naim have experimented with Fraim equivalents for speaker
Posted on: 29 February 2004 by andy c
Bosh,
I do have sb1's under the sbl's. When I got them the differance was a no brainer. I've had my sbl's and the sb1's since 1999.
They will be staying for the duration of time that the SBL's do.
I'll tell you what - I'd be very interested if Naim did something like that. However I reckon they will argue as usual they have done the isolation issue with their speakers within the individual design of em...
Posted on: 29 February 2004 by Paul B
quote:
The Mana is very good, and cured no end of problems at my old address (wooden suspended floor etc).


I have been wondering about the various merits of both of these supports and your point above caught my attention as my gear is now on a wooden suspended floor. Unfortunately it is not possible for me to try a Mana support before purchase, which I could do with a Fraim. So at this point I am leaning toward purchase of Fraim. However, I do not want to rule Mana out.

Perhaps Andy, or someone else, could answer my questions.

Does a Fraim also improve performance on wooden suspended floors (as Andy states above about Mana)? Anyone done this comparison at home on this type of wooden flooring?

I would need two separate supports and I am aware sources/preamps should go on one support and power supplies/amps on another. In my present hifi setup, it is preferable to have my power amps/supplies on a table to the left of a second support for my 52/SNAXO. If the source/preamp Fraim tower is placed to the right of the Fraim with the power supplies, do the Burndies reach the power supplies (I would guess not). I would think that the Burndies would reach with Mana though.

The alternative to the above would be to mix preamps and the power supplies on one Fraim. Does this cause significant deterioration in performance?

Paul
Posted on: 29 February 2004 by Thomas K
Hello Paul,

If the source/preamp Fraim tower is placed to the right of the Fraim with the power supplies, do the Burndies reach the power supplies (I would guess not).

You can get the stacks farther apart if the source/pre stack is on the left, but the Burndies will definitely reach even if you have the source/pre on the right.

The alternative to the above would be to mix preamps and the power supplies on one Fraim. Does this cause significant deterioration in performance?

IME, most certainly yes (unless you're leaving at least one-shelf gaps in the vertical plane).

Thomas
Posted on: 29 February 2004 by andy c
Hi Paul,
I cannot really help you as I have a concrete floor now.
I went from an Apollo rack to the Mana on the wooden floor and it was a no brainer.
Properly set up the Mana is a very good stand indeed. were it not for the allure of the Naim Fraim I would not have looked at swapping.

I think if you talk to John at Mana they will assist you as what you request is an 'off the shelf' item. You could therefore then be in a position to compare. I feel it may well be worth the effort on your part. The only problem I can see is your location.

This Mana v Fraim issue has divided opinions like no other topic I've been monitoring since joining this forum, so it may well pay you to consider the above.

regards,
andy c!
Posted on: 29 February 2004 by Arye_Gur
Andy and others -
quote:
My wife is very often the deciding factor in such purchases!!!


From my experience, or you have no wife or your wife makes the decisions for you...
Arye
Posted on: 29 February 2004 by Willy
Paul,


Moved from Sound Org to Fraim on suspended wooden floor. Much better though more succeptible to footfalls.


Willy.
Posted on: 29 February 2004 by andy c
quote:
From my experience, or you have no wife or your wife makes the decisions for you...

Yes but she's usually right and I usually benefit anyway... Smile
Posted on: 29 February 2004 by Arye_Gur
Andy says
quote:
Yes but she's usually right and I usually benefit anyway...


So - you are among the only few who are living with the right wife.

Arye
Posted on: 29 February 2004 by andy c
...and on occasion she reads these threads - so - absolutely!