Front end first: The logical conclusion.
Posted by: Tony L on 29 January 2002
I collect records, I make no apology for that at all. When ever possible I will buy the first pressing of an album, I always land the limited edition, and my idea of heaven is spending all day bin diving in a second hand record shop. I regularly buy an album more than once to replace a later pressing with a first / better one.
I see records as a little chunks of history - the fact that say The Beatles Revolver, Can's Tago Mago, or Ornette Coleman's Free Jazz all did there bit in changing the face of music is made that little more real by the knowledge that my own copies were there right at the start. The fact they were pressed when the master tape was new and shiny makes them sound great too, in fact the phrase correct can be used, as they are the real item, not a facsimile.
Record collecting is time consuming, but does not need to be expensive. Consider that a bog standard CD can cost upwards of 15 quid in a rip off high street outlet, 6-10 quid will normally land you the original vinyl of the majority of music, at £15 something is getting quite collectable.
I am not limiting this exclusively to vinyl, I consider any piece of music that was originally released on CD to be collectable in that format, and I certainly concede that a lot of music suits that medium well.
Anyone else here seriously hunt down specific pressings of records / CDs?
Tony.
quote:
Originally posted by Tony Lonorgan:
Anyone else here seriously hunt down specific pressings of records / CDs?
Usually only where there's a reported major sonic difference. But I'm quite happy to have them if I come across them, so wouldn't swap my original mono Sgt. Peppers for any super-duper CD remaster.
Pete.
I do hunt down specific pressings sometimes, but not always. I'm still trying to complete my collection of original RCA pressings of Bowie LP's ( still trying to find the blue vinyl version of stage as well), currently have them all on RCA but a few are re-issues.
Given a choice between a limited edition version and a normal version I'm always happy to spend a few pounds more and get the limited edition, or coloured vinyl, or whatever.
I drive my wife insane by constantly bringing home more records or CD's and the fact that I can go into a record shop and 9am saturday morning and happilly stay there until it closes.
Simon
quote:
But I'm quite happy to have them if I come across them, so wouldn't swap my original mono Sgt. Peppers for any super-duper CD remaster.
Agreed. The Beatles digital masters are crap! I have a original mono copy of Revolver and the current digital mastered stereo vinyl. The mono kicks its butt. My copy of Sgt Peppers is a 70s stereo one, and it sounds really good - way better than the CD.
quote:
I do hunt down specific pressings sometimes, but not always. I'm still trying to complete my collection of original RCA pressings of Bowie LP's ( still trying to find the blue vinyl version of stage as well), currently have them all on RCA but a few are re-issues.
Yeah, I'm missing a couple - no Space Oddity or Young Americans, and my copy of Station to station is on a black label not orange, the rest are authentic (my copy of Stage is on yellow vinyl).
quote:
I drive my wife insane by constantly bringing home more records or CD's and the fact that I can go into a record shop and 9am saturday morning and happilly stay there until it closes.
My basic survival skills: Walk in any direction until record shop located. Go in.
I used to live in Shepherds Bush, and there was a Music Video Exchange shop there (its gone now) in which the whole downstairs was 20p vinyl. It was effectively overstock and unheard of (by the staff!) promos - many still sealed. I shifted loads of cash over that counter! I actually got some really rare and collectable stuff there, including some acetates! I went there every Sunday - it was my church.
Tony.
Luckily where I live now I have three really good independant record shops that sell a great collection of used and new vinyl. One of them is almost exclusivly vinyl, they usually only stock a few hundred CD's, but loads of vinyl.
quote:
my copy of Stage is on yellow vinyl
Yeah, I've got the yellow and black vinyl versions, but just want to complete the set and get the blue vinyl version as well, which I beleive is a German pressing but not sure.
Simon
I have most early Bowie and Reed on orange label RCA but these are NZ pressings (when there used to be a pressing plant downunder) they are supposed to be good quality, but I've not got much to compare them to.
While we’re on this thread where are good places to buy new vinyl? My local HMV used to be quite good but have gone badly downhill over the last year.
Simon
quote:
While we’re on this thread where are good places to buy new vinyl? My local HMV used to be quite good but have gone badly downhill over the last year.
Lofisi,
Yes I used to work in Reading up until about a year ago, and even then HMV was pretty poor ( I presume you are talking about HMV in reading due to your profile) for vinyl. I can't think of anywhere else in Reading that sells new vinyl, but plenty of second hand shops. You could always drop into Audio-T and ask the guys where they buy their LP's from.
If you don't mind a trip up to London then Selectadisk on Berwick street used to be pretty good for new vinyl, also a couple of second hand shops there as well.
As I've been living overseas for a year now I can't really remember anywhere else of the top of my head.
Simon
quote:
Yeah, I've got the yellow and black vinyl versions, but just want to complete the set and get the blue vinyl version as well, which I beleive is a German pressing but not sure.
I recall it being German too. Have you got either of the mercury copies of Man who sold the world (drag sleeve or cartoon sleeve)? I have not attempted to collect anything other than the standard UK orange label RCAs for Bowie. I think he lost it when he signed to EMI.
I find the 70s RCA pressings to be a really mixed bag, some sound fabulous (my copy of Lou Reed's Transformer sounds stunning, as does Iggy's lust for life), but some of the Bowies sound really poor to my ears, sort of thin and lumpy.
In a lot of ways (but not completely) the recent EMI Millennium series 180g repress of Aladin Sane beats the original pressing, but the top is a little fierce. My favourite sounding of my orange RCA Bowies is Hunky Dory, and that is one of the ultra thin Dynaflex wobble-boards.
Tony.
quote:
I recall it being German too. Have you got either of the mercury copies of Man who sold the world (drag sleeve or cartoon sleeve)? I have not attempted to collect anything other than the standard UK orange label RCAs for Bowie. I think he lost it when he signed to EMI
No, unfortunatly I don't have either of the mercury pressings. The price is usually to high for these versions. I don't mind paying up to about 20 pounds for a rare record, but usually draw the line at that. The last time I saw either of the mercury Man who sold the world, they were at least 50 pounds. Would be intersting to hear how good the quality is on them though.
My whole set of Bowie is a fairly mixed bag of orange , black and green labels. I have a Spanish or Portugese pressing of Scary Monsters, with an orange label, and the sound is awful, the orange label version of Space Oddity is excellent though.
Have to agree that Bowie lost it completly from the time he signed to EMI. I did buy a few of the early EMI vinyl re-issues, mainly for the bonus tracks. The sound quality on these is average, though it took an Ekos to make them that good, they sounded awful when I still had an Akito on my LP12.
Simon
Personally I also get far more from the music in the original format than I do from CDs or even high quality reissue LP box sets such as Mosaic, regardless of sound quality or HIFI attributes.
John. t
i thought i was the only one who did this kind of thing... shame on you!! 
enjoy
ken
John
more shame on you!!!
is that warehouse in hampton wick. been there once, bought a few lp's i was looking for. will be going there again soon to pick up quite a few more lp's. i will probably just come clean on these -- using excuses like "rare" "antique value" etc etc
enjoy
ken
I see no difference between vinyl and CD.
Both are "real" in any sensible definition. Vinyl is a facsimile, CD is a facsimile, the master tape is a facsimilie.
If you are talking about collecting in the antique sense then what you should do is buy something and not use it, do not even remove the wrapping, so that its "value" is preserved.
How sad is that.
cheers
Nigel
quote:
I see no difference between vinyl and CD.Both are "real" in any sensible definition. Vinyl is a facsimile, CD is a facsimile, the master tape is a facsimilie.
I don't see it this way. To continue talking about Bowie for a minute, take the album Ziggy Stardust, a piece of music that completely shook the rock world in 1972. Ziggy was delivered to the public as a piece of 12" black vinyl with an orange RCA label, which was served up in a non-gatefold sleeve with an lyric sheet inner. The fact that it is a facsimile of a master tape is irrelevant, it was the item I described above that had such a massive impact on musical history, and as such that is the one I wish to own. This is the original item that made the impact… ok, it was available on cassette and 8Track too, so collect them if you want as well (I don't bother, I just want the vinyl).
quote:
If you are talking about collecting in the antique sense then what you should do is buy something and not use it, do not even remove the wrapping, so that its "value" is preserved.
Yes, unplayed sealed originals are often worth an absolute fortune, for instance imagine how much a unopened low number White Album would be worth, though this to me is missing the point. I am collecting because I love the things, not to make money (though my record collection is almost certainly worth more than I paid for it - is yours?). I look at it the same way that someone who is into vintage cars would, I buy records to drive, not garage.
Tony.
quote:
Ziggy was delivered to the public as a piece of 12" black vinyl with an orange RCA label, which was served up in a non-gatefold sleeve with an lyric sheet inner.
This is what I have, it wasn't bought until c1976, when it seemed like a very old album, and people were already claiming that they liked the old Bowie and not the new-fangled stuff.
The first Bowie record I bought when it came out was '"Heroes"'. This should have a lyric insert, with (in my case) a sort of fawn coloured RCA label. The record claims to have been manufactured in Italy with the sleeve printed in England. There are 'STERLING' stamps in the runout grooves on both sides.
That's part of the fun of vinyl, however I have no doubt that a carefully mastered CD will sound better and because it will play straight through in one shot I would be more likely to listen to the 'difficult' side.
Paul
quote:
The fact they were pressed when the master tape was new and shiny makes them sound great too, in fact the phrase "correct" can be used, as they are the real item, not a facsimile.
I am a big Hendrix fan and for years thought that trying to locate the "original" copies of all his LPs (British and American) would get the best sound. Are You Experienced? sounded like it was recorded in a trash can and considering that over the years this record has been (re)released dozens of times, I was quite surprised that the new vinyl albums(complete with original liners) sound far superior to anything preceding them. I've been buying all the new improved Hendrix on LP as they've been surfacing and selling off the originals.
I got to the point a few years back I had over 2500 records and nowhere to store them(and about a thousand 78s). I had double copies of many records; one which sounded good and another because it had a better cover. I love reading and rereading covers while listening! Gatefolds are my favorites. When I downsized my collection, I commited heresy; I put the better sounding disc in the better condition or favorite cover and sold the other copy.
Regarding Bowie, I have all original copies and believe they do sound better. I seem to be alone here but I enjoy everything he has done(including Tin Machine) and have it all on vinyl. I not only have an original of "Let's Dance", but a 12-inch of every song on the album. The 12-inch of Cat People is awesome! I think when you find the original 12-inch singles, at 45 or 33, it is as close to "source-first" as you can get, especially with a good producer.
Ron The Mon
P.S.
The worst sounding record I've ever heard on my hi-fi was the "digitally-regurgitated" White Album. Dreadful!!
quote:
[RE: Heroes] That's part of the fun of vinyl, however I have no doubt that a carefully mastered CD will sound better and because it will play straight through in one shot I would be more likely to listen to the 'difficult' side.
This actually opens up a whole different can of worms. Both Low and Heroes are very much albums with a clearly defined A and B side, as are a great deal of other titles. Plonking the tracks in one linear playlist as the CD does is somehow very wrong to my mind, it looses something important conceptually.
Tony.
I object much more to bonus tracks on classic albums, especially those with a clear ending. 'Who's Next' is especially bad from this pov. Anyway this is a subject for another thread.
Paul
quote:
(though my record collection is almost certainly worth more than I paid for it - is yours?).
Tony
I suspect my vinyl collection (60-ish Folk LPs) is almost certainly worth more than I paid.
It seems that you cherish the physical "thing" (the actual Bowie vinyl) as much as the music. Nothing wrong with that. I don't have that attachment to the material. If I could replace my vinyl with CDs I would.
cheers
Nigel
quote:
It seems that you cherish the physical "thing" (the actual Bowie vinyl) as much as the music. Nothing wrong with that. I don't have that attachment to the material.
Yes, very true, I like the physical entity as well as the music it contains, plus I love the idea that I actually have lots of little chunks of musical history. I would collect them for these reasons alone, the fact that they usually sound very much better than the CD reissues is a massive bonus! Don’t get me wrong though, I collect CDs too!
Tony.
I have to admit I buy different pressings of vinyl
to find the best sound.
I can't resist buying the mfsl, DCC, Classic records or 1/2 speed masters. The only problem with me is I will only buy unplayed vinyl/sealed.
This can cost me a fortune. Quite a few lp's have cost over £125.00 each.
I recently bought Floyd- wish you were here, 1/2 speed mastersound-promo,still sealed from 20 years ago. Crazy money but it blows any copy I have heard (7 copies)
I spend alot of effort in sourcing audiophile records, because I am more interested in the source rather than the collection of boxes on a rack.
I've spent the last 2 years re-buying all the vinyl I sold in former years of madness or poverty.
I guess whether I have to snap something up of whatever vintage just to get it back or whether I can hold out until I find it in original form and good condition. Usually, if I buy a really crap 80s pressing of something the original turns up the following week, and, equally, if I pass something by I never see it again.
The problem is I've now bought most of what I want locally and need to start travelling. And at the beginning of this process I bought some real rubbish in a blinkered vinyl frenzy.
Alex
The short answer is, of course, Yes others of us out here are collecting records or music (there is a difference). And, for the most part I agree that the originals blow away the reissues. I've enjoyed demonstrating this fact many times to the uninitiated by playing two different pressings of various albums. I also recently had the experience of giving away, without first really appraising the sonic value, a first pressing Harold Melvin and the Blue Notes record that sounded so lush, so vibrant, so alive in comparison to the cleaner copy that had previous been in my collection. After realizing what I had done I basically threw away my re-pressing, it was that bad. (But hey, I paid only a buck for it, and my buddy really appreciated it...)
Marku
Have you ever visited someone who has antiques in their house? They often talk about "the patina", that is, the decades old layer of grime, polish, human contact and physical abuse which lends character and charm to an antique. I once saw a dear friend transform a gorgeous old antique chest into something that looked new, ugly and without character so I can appreciate what the antique connoissuers (sp?) are onto here.
Anyway, I recently picked up a fairly beat up copy of Anal-y-sis, by the Nite-Liters. The Funk/Soul collectors out their might recognize this title--it's from 1973 and a fairly sought after record. This copy was really pretty funky looking. The jacket had ring-wear, had writing on it and even showed that it had once been damp (in short a strong G or Gminus condition). Once I bathed the album it played surprisingly well and, being a first pressing, sounds fat and rich and funky. This has caused me to re-think the threshold below which I pass on albums. After all, this album has got patina galore and now I'm glad to have it taking pride of place in my collection. If I find a cleaner copy I doubt that I'll let this beat-up one go, I like it that much.
One more tip on fat sounding pressings--early Capitol pressings from the 50's sure sound great. I can't imagine how anyone could prefer a new cd to an original 50's mono unless the vinyl was crap or scratched!
Markus
PS, we need a new thread on pressings!
quote:
I have most early Bowie and Reed on orange label RCA but these are NZ pressings (when there used to be a pressing plant downunder) they are supposed to be good quality, but I've not got much to compare them to.
IMHO most NZ pressings are usually bested by decent UK, US, or German pressings. Particularly stuff like Fleetwood Mac, Steely Dan etc.
As for the Heroes thing, I play the second side more often. much as I like the first side, of course. Alas, my copy is a NZ pressing bought new old stock in a sale bin in Johnsonville circa 1980. 
"Dahnn-Dhannnn-Dhannnn Dunnnnnnnm. Dahnn-Dhannnn-Dhannnn Dunnnnnnnm." 
Rico - SM/Mullet Audio