Front end first: The logical conclusion.

Posted by: Tony L on 29 January 2002

I have been exchanging emails with a couple of regulars here recently regarding my true passion - record collecting (the hi-fi is just a tool to play the records on!). I am curious to know how many here regularly go to any length to find that original or known best pressing.

I collect records, I make no apology for that at all. When ever possible I will buy the first pressing of an album, I always land the limited edition, and my idea of heaven is spending all day bin diving in a second hand record shop. I regularly buy an album more than once to replace a later pressing with a first / better one.

I see records as a little chunks of history - the fact that say The Beatles Revolver, Can's Tago Mago, or Ornette Coleman's Free Jazz all did there bit in changing the face of music is made that little more real by the knowledge that my own copies were there right at the start. The fact they were pressed when the master tape was new and shiny makes them sound great too, in fact the phrase correct can be used, as they are the real item, not a facsimile.

Record collecting is time consuming, but does not need to be expensive. Consider that a bog standard CD can cost upwards of 15 quid in a rip off high street outlet, 6-10 quid will normally land you the original vinyl of the majority of music, at £15 something is getting quite collectable.

I am not limiting this exclusively to vinyl, I consider any piece of music that was originally released on CD to be collectable in that format, and I certainly concede that a lot of music suits that medium well.

Anyone else here seriously hunt down specific pressings of records / CDs?

Tony.

Posted on: 29 January 2002 by Giles Felgate

I agree with Rico here. Most Australian (& Kiwi) pressings of vinyl from 1980 onwards are real crap. The vinyl is thin, poor quality and prone to warping if you looked at it. The other problem was that EMI and most of the big companies in Oz tended to overpress the volume of disks from the masters, so if you got a late production copy, the surface noise was way high.

When I compare the quality of my US, UK and European pressings to the Oz/NZ stuff - there is no comparison. It's for this reason that I often replace the local pressings with CDs where possible. Much as I like vinyl, I'd rather the music than the product.

Giles

Posted on: 29 January 2002 by Former member

As much as I like records, I find that I buy (and listen to) more CDs than vinyl. Good vinyl are that much harder to find, can be more expensive, and CDs are just fantastic in terms of convenience. On a good player, recent CDs sound very good and sometimes better than the equivalent vinyl. But the artwork and feel of records are far superior. When reduced to the teeny weeny jewel box/CD, the impact of the artwork on classic Blue Notes, for example, is just not the same. If the prices are similar, I always go for the vinyl over the CD.

quote:
I am a big Hendrix fan and for years thought that trying to locate the "original" copies of all his LPs (British and American) would get the best sound. Are You Experienced? sounded like it was recorded in a trash can and considering that over the years this record has been (re)released dozens of times, I was quite surprised that the new vinyl albums(complete with original liners) sound far superior to anything preceding them. I've been buying all the new improved Hendrix on LP as they've been surfacing and selling off the originals.

I almost always prefer original (or early) pressings to reissues (whether audiophile or not). However in the case of Hendrix, the masters used originally were not the best (not to mention, the butchering by the mastering engineers) and it is only in the 1990s that the Hendrix family released albums mastered from their own superior masters. As a result, even some of the 1990s CDs sound better than the original vinyl. The limited edition vinyl put out by Hendrix LLC/MCA (remastered by Eddie Kramer!) is fantastic, possibly, the best versions of the classic Hendrix albums.

Generally, though, I avoid audiophile rereleases e.g. Analog Productions, MSFL, DCC etc. because they are engineered to appeal to "round earth ears" at the expense of the music. The one exception I make is the Classic Records versions which, to my ears, are the most sympathetically produced.

Hockman

Posted on: 29 January 2002 by John

I am back into vinyl and am enjoying it very much. I beefed up my collection by buying a collection of approx. 650 records for only $500 Cdn dollars. They were all in mint condition with inner and outer sleaves. I traded in the CD copies and received about $400 back. I plan to sell about 200 records which comprise of titles that either don't interest me or I have duplicate copies. It was a great move because I have found some very interesting artists in the collection that I probably would never try.

I am finding the vinyl pressings in general to be more enjoyable than the CDs. I haven't found an example where the CD pressing is more enjoyable than the vinyl.

I go every week to the local used store and typically find 5-7 records that cost no more than $2cdn each that are interesting. I find that I am exploring more music as the records are so cheap to try. I am also filling out the collections of artists that I like. There is so much music and so little time.

John

Posted on: 05 February 2002 by Former member

Tony, if you fancy going further afield, let me know and I'll drive.

Must leave the cards at home though.

Dave

Posted on: 07 February 2002 by P

Never spotted this thread till now....

Getting back on topic I just spotted thison Ebay today.

If you'll allow me to smirk I bought the exact same version for £10 recently and I thought I was pushing the boat out at the time! Sounds bloody great too.

Having said that though I saw a copy of the White Album go for £650 on Ebay recently - one of the first 250 pressed apparently, but at that price?

Worlds gone mad.

Posted on: 08 February 2002 by Gunnar Jansson

Hi!
Interresting subject to me this one.
I have the mercury cartoon cover lp of the man who sold the world as well as all original pressings.
rca "reissues" space oddity et al is to my ears equal to philips and mercury. "The man" has that "twisted" mix and so on.
Bought my first Bowie album at the age of 13 (was ziggy) and continued from that.

The lp versus cd versions is IMO that the cd is almost unlistenable. I don´t know how they did to mess things up the way they have done. First the rca back in the late eighties,then a remaster, then another 24 bit.
well i´ve got the first rca´s and they have become collectors items, even though they sound bad. Even got some of the remasters.

But.... Lp´s is the way to go.
Bought a 180 gr aladdin sane millenium something, but the original is better.

The orginal master recordings are very good though and if you can get one of those then you
got a real "supersounding" copy.

Iggy´s albums have almost been IMO slaughtered on cd , same with Lou Reed´s.
I know that a lot of people disagree with me on the subject on cd reissues but I find that there is almost everytime something wrong with them when it comes to recordings made in the 60`s and 70´s.

Gunnar

Posted on: 10 February 2002 by Former member

Thanks for the valuable information everyone, I now know that my copies of Heroes and Ziggy are both original. I agree that the CDs of 60s and 70s music are not in the same street as Vinyl originals. I've heard the CD of Ziggy and its really sad compared to my vinyl copy.

I have only found one CD that is anywhere near the quality of the original and that is a reissue of a band called Gryphon , where they put both the first Gryphon album and Magic Mushrumps, the second , on one CD. This rather begs the question of what they do to the rest when they remaster for CD. The majority of the CDs sound rather obviously compressed compared to the vinyl.

As I have a lot of classical reissues from this period that don't suffer from this problem, or at least not to anything like the same extent I have to assume that the problem is largely with the people who are doing the remastering of the rock albums. Does anyone know anything about this?

Paul Duerden

Posted on: 11 February 2002 by Gunnar Jansson

Paul D
No, I don´t know why it is like this. I just know that I very seldom find a cd reissue that sound as good as the lp original.
Don´t know if it´s the guys who remaster (is it the same guys, probably no) or the gear they use.

An example: Bowie again ( hope it´s not boring)
The Emi remasters issued i Europe vs Us Ryko remasters made by Dr Toby. The us remaster on ryko sounds better but not good. Hard sounding with etchy treble. The BBC sessions is only, to my knowledge, on cd and sounds fine though.
Perhaps they learn as time goes by?

BTW My playbacksystem is a rega planar 3 with a Linn k9 and a naim cd 3 .
Modern cd recordings sound fine to me. So it isn´t something wrong with the cd playback performance.

Anyone else that can explain this???

Gunnar

Posted on: 12 February 2002 by Mike in CO

Check this out:

Revolver LP on EBay

Same "XEX-606-1" matrix is available for less, but not in this condition, apparently. Will be interesting to see where that one stops.

Posted on: 12 February 2002 by Mike in CO

I'm also more in persuit of the music than the hi-fi gear, and I've found in the last few years that finding the records I want at prices I'm willing to pay is getting very hard indeed. When I started buying like mad about 12 yrs ago, I would buy around 10 records a week, for about US$30. I buy S/H whenever I can, mostly for the original-pressing factor, not the price. Here are my thoughts/experiences recently.

Local S/H and new record shops regularly get great titles in from people who are ditching their collections, but they're asking absurd prices for mediocre quality stuff. Average asking price for anything before 1980 is about $12, and it's not NM or even close in most cases. If I'm desparate for something specific, I'll get it. I don't do the "buy blind" thing I did way back when, where I'd take a chance on something because it looked interested, and was cheap.

I find collecting fairs are becoming a great place for getting a good look at rare items, but the prices are even more absurd there. Ten years ago, I could spend US$150 and get about 20-25 amazing LPs in great shape. Now I would be lucky to get 5 or 6, and condition may not be VG or better.

I've also had mostly good luck on Ebay, but a few have been either shams, or the vinyl was not as represented in the sale. I've have scored "killer deals" on Ebay, but it was a few years ago. Lately the prices seem to eventually rise to close to what my local SH store wants for the same items. Add shipping and it's not much of a deal.

I make lists in a small notebook of what to look for, and I take that book with me just about everywhere. When I visit SH stores in the local area, it can take the better part of a weekend to see them all. I can only seem to do it once every three months now, but that gives me enough time to listen to everything I get before buying more.