n-Vi NAP 200 and Linn speakers

Apologies for not answering your interesting replies earlier and thanks for further suggestions. We’re based in York, Nigel. Perhaps your suggestion will be what we go for if finances allow later. Our dealer is willing to swap things in view of the problems we’ve had and seems willing to give us endless hours of demos!!

He has now played us a different surround sound systems (Arcam and Linn), the Naim CD 5x with NAP200 (which latter we have, DrMark, thanks) and a comparable Linn system and other speakers and we’ve come to the conclusion that the n-Vi can deliver some CD sound very well indeed and that the Linn Majik 140 speakers are pretty good too – more dynamic and fresh sounding than others! (I will no doubt betray more poor judgement if I say my ears could not see any difference between the n-Vi CD performance and that of the CD5X! Even that seemed rather shrill to us!) And with more use the n-Vi’s shrillness for big orchestral and choral sound continues to spoil our listening pleasure although is does seem to be better now we leave it on all the time. Our dealer is going to play it through the NAP250 for us – having coughed up lots for what we have I guess we can jump one more hoop if it makes enough difference and what you experts say on other threads sometimes sounds promising. Anyone tried this?

We continue to enjoy the surround sound music DVDs we are acquiring – the extra speakers fuller body seems to mellow that shrillness and, of course, we’ve something to look at!

The problems we are still experiencing with the n-Vi, Steve, are – CDs start playing a few seconds in to tracks about 60-70% of the time often clipping off the beginning of the music; the MODE button does not always produce the result it should and what comes out is not always as displayed and occasionally the machine has to be turned off to break it out of being determined to play a CD in surround sound; and when used with a Humax satellite box it will not always lock into this. We had also had problems with two remotes not working but that seems OK now, thank goodness!

Thanks again
Ray

quote:

(I will no doubt betray more poor judgement if I say my ears could not see any difference between the n-Vi CD performance and that of the CD5X! Even that seemed rather shrill to us!) And with more use the n-Vi’s shrillness for big orchestral and choral sound continues to spoil our listening pleasure although is does seem to be better now we leave it on all the time.

Ray

It pains me to say this but could it be that the Naim sound is simply not for you? I wonder if Linn make something that would fit the bill - like their unidisk? Your dealer is certainly being helpful, but I would hesitate before thinking of a NAP250.2. It's a good amp, but it will not address the problem of the NVi's basic CD and preamp, and may make matters worse by showing up source deficiencies. Why not give a full Linn setup a go? The Unidisk SC has the processor and preamp built in, so all you then need is the 5 channel power amp. Selling the nVi and foregoing the 250.2 could make this affordable.

The problem I have in being more helpful is that I know nothing of AV - we have a simple two channel stereo and a Loewe telly, which suits us just fine!

Nigel

Thanks Nigel. What you say about the Naim sound not being for us might be true but, as I’ve said, sometimes we like what we hear very much and the Linn system we were played (but I did not note its name) did not seem to have the same dynamic punch – but maybe it was not as classy a set up as you are suggesting.
We have now had a demo comparing the NAP200 and 250 and were impressed with the latter’s handling of the big choral works we like – the sound was less congealed/thick (even strained) and more detailed and the soloists’ voices richer – significantly more enjoyable. We are being lent the latter for a few days so will be able to see if what you say about the NAP250 revealing the n-Vi’s inadequacies is something we can detect. As I’ve said we love the n-Vi’s DVD performance in surround sound (for classical music DVDs and films) – spectacular pictures on our Pioneer Kuro 37” and only slightly harsh sound – so are very reluctant to lose that! Is the Naim’s particular shrillness (and I note with interest that the general harshness of CDs is often upsetting people in these forums!) something that might become less noticeable to us? It does at the moment seem as if the NAQP250 might help us along the way to do this.
With good wishes and thanks again for your suggestions
Ray

Ray

I have a horrible feeling that you are potentially chucking money at a problem - which fine if you have it of course. You are trying to get the speakers to work with bigger amps and I really think you need to revisit whether they are the right speakers. If they are, try the full Linn setup, or otherwise try some speakers that are better matched. The only time I heard the nVi was with the full Naim nsystem, and it was really good. As a third option, try adding a NAC 202 to your NAP 200 and see what that does. Adding a 250.2 to an nVi is definitely heading to mullet territory.

Nigel

Thanks again Nigel. We’ll discuss what you say with our dealer. I thought the n-Vi had a built in pre-amp and did no know another one could be added to it. The comments some people have made on the Hi-Fi thread about the differences between the NAP200 and NAP250 (as well as our 60min demo) did seem to suggest we might find some improvement with the latter but presumably none of those will have been with an n-Vi as a source and no one there responded to my query about this.
This home trial of the NAP250 is booked up and our dealer is keen we should be sure it makes a difference we like – do you (or anyone else) have any suggestions about how we will detect it exposing the n-Vi’s weaknesses? It really did seem to get a better grip on big choral and orchestral sound but not sure about its treatment of chamber music which is, as I said much earlier, usually the present set-up’s best sound, along with authentic instrument small scale performances – we found the whole performance, for example, of Beethoven’s No 9 played by Gardiner’s original instrument team wonderful and that makes us loathe to switch to something else, especially as the demos all seemed to leave Naim with the Linn speakers ahead to our untrained ears. (We have a good classical CD collection – all but difficult modern stuff.)
We have already spent far more than we intended to, raiding savings that cannot be replenished by pensioners, so do not want unnecessary expense but we are keen to end up enjoying our music or what we have spent will have been to some extent wasted so are willing to splash out just a bit more if it really improves things! We are unlikely to join forum members who regularly update their kit – although it does sound tempting! We wonder how these often harsh modern CDs sound on the most expensive gear and how come the reviews in the magazines and in the Penguin Guide rarely mention the unattractive sound we are sometimes hearing now?
Thanks for sticking with us.
Ray

Ray

If you like, drop me a line at street dot family at btinternet dot com. I'm sure it would be easier!!

Nigel

I can add a bit of real experience here. I've had Naim for over 18 years and after getting into home cinema, went for the simple option and bought an n-Vi. Great little unit and still used every day for DVD's and TV sound.

I've run an n-Vi with both a 140 and 250. Both improvements but the real change came when i added a 282. The system now shines and although a Mac & Dac is my main source, CD's sound better played through the 282 from the n-Vi than using its internal pre amp.

If you are happy with the speakers, why not ditch the power amp and look at maybe an XS for amplification duties or even something like the uniti.

Sorry to add to your confusion but from my experience with the n-Vi (as good as it is) adding a 250/2 wont sort your woes.

James

Thanks James and most interesting to hear from someone who has and likes an n-Vi! I’m nor sure that we can afford a NAC282. Have you heard the NAC202 with an n-Vi as Nigel suggests? If we exchanged the NAP200 for a Nait XS plus the NAC202 we could manage that as it would not be that much more expensive than the change we are contemplating.
When you suggest ditching the Power Amp for an Integrated Amplifier would that bring an improvement, do you think, even without the NAC202 or 282?
And are the improvements you are talking about specifically in limiting the shrillness in massed strings and voices, especially in high notes and moderating the harshness in things like chamber music? Is it classical music CDs you are writing about?
You feel the improvements we thought we heard when comparing the NAP200 and 250 will only be modest and not worth more than £1000?
Any comments you can make on any of these questions would be much appreciated, James – yes our heads are in a whirl as we have no real idea of what all these mysterious boxes do! But having good sound for our CD collection to enrich our retirement is very important to us and I guess it’s now or never that we splash out even more, if we’re going to!
Ray

Ray - whats your main aim with the system. Good CD playback or an all in one system that can do both films and music ?

James

We hoped, James, we could have both in the all-in-one box! Our dealer encouraged us to just go for great stereo sound and a cheapish DVD player but I was keen to explore the growing classical music DVD repetoire. We now so like and enjoy the n-Vi's DVD/surround sound performance that we are reluctant to surrender it. But we spend more time listening to CDs and Radio 3 (we have the FM option n-Vi)than anything else.
Ray

Ok - i'd do the following.

The n-Vi is certainly good enough as a standalone unit. I'd go back to the dealer and take a listen to the n-Vi with other speakers. Knowing the characteristics of the n-Vi i wouldnt have thought it a good match to the Linn Speakers.

Once you are happy with this combination then a future enhancement could be adding the 200 to the n-Vi. I ran my n-Vi with Neat Motives (before my last house move) and that was a very good combination.

James

My thanks to members who have done their best to help after our disappointment.
After two weeks of a home trial we have found many CDs are significantly improved by playing them through a NAP250. It does seem as if it this machine brings the best out of both the n-Vi and the Linn Majik140 speakers (and the DVD surrounds sound is glorious) even if we are not getting the full benefit of what it could do with a better CD source and one of the pre-amps you have recommended. So we are raiding the piggy bank yet again! With the 250 we definitely seem to be hearing more of what is going on with richer and deeper sound. The harshness of big choral and orchestral sound we disliked in the opening to all five of our recordings of Vaughan Williams’ 1st Symphony is more controlled and is no longer unpleasant to listen to. Some of our old favourites – Barbirolli’s Dream of Gerontius and VW’s 5 Mystical Songs sound absolutely wonderful – and we are looking forward to playing more of our collection when the n-Vi gets back from its return trip to Naim to have, we hope, the gremlins finally sorted (including, we hope, some blips and buzzing that still spoil FM sound in spite of a top quality aerial and cable being fitted)!
Thanks again and happy listening!
Ray