Calling Dynavector power amp users:

Steve,

Let us know how you get on - with an HX1.2 your Arcs should sound fantastic.

Jason,

'One simple solution is to runn the 1.2 from a separate spur of its own, not ideal imho but can help.'

I have found this arrangement ideal - why do you think it isn't?

Alex

Pls let us know what you think.
I had a listen to the same power amp recently...be very interested to hear what you make of it.

what did you think of it?

Alex

Hi ebirah
Don't expect the same from the Dv stuff as the Naim. It will drive your Arcs so much better (IMO)
You should loose the 'glassyness' that ARCS are prone too, and see why they are a great loudspeaker.

I think the DV depends what you are looking for, if you want more depth, neutrality,space and sweetness, with a 3-D presentation, then you're onto a winner, drum presentation would make TopCat quake in his boots! It may not seem instantly as superficially fast as a 250 (despite how good a 250 is), but I thouroughly recommend the HX1.2 in your system combination. Both me and Jason can't be wrong, can we? :-) :-)

Hope you enjoy it...

Cheers
Goose

quote:

---

I think the DV depends what you are looking for, if you want more depth, neutrality,space and sweetness, with a 3-D presentation, then you're onto a winner, drum presentation would make TopCat quake in his boots! It may not seem instantly as superficially fast as a 250 (despite how good a 250 is), but I thouroughly recommend the HX1.2 in your system combination. Both me and Jason can't be wrong, can we? :-) :-)

---

Sounds interesting. I've never heard any DV amps - nobody up here does them. As I'm learning as I hear different amps and systems, speed in itself is meaningless, and things like the Nait-2 whilst good, lose out in other ways against more sophisticated amps. I have never been impressed by the 250, driven by many sources up to and including the 82/SC. Never heard a 52/SC, so there is always the option that it takes that sort of preamp to get the 250 to work at its best.

TC '..'
"Girl, you thought he was a man, but he was a Muffin..."

just my 2p worth.

In my set-up, I went from CDSII/52/250/Wilson Benesch Actors to replacing the 250 with the HX1.2.

When I first heard a demo of HX1.2 I thought it blew away the 250 (and 135s), although there are certain aspects of the presentation which I can see may lead some to prefer the 250.

However, when mine arrived to be put into my system it seemed to take weeks to really show what it was capable of with. Initiall although it had a lot more control than the 250, it sounding slightly opaque and closed in compared - quite the opposite when fully warmed up. So make sure that the HX1.2 is not brand new otherwise the demo isn't going to show ahuge difference, unless the speakers are particularly difficult to drive in which case the HX1.2 will walk all over the 250.

I've used Grahams Hydra and a couple of mains blocks - my perception is that there is a slight degradation in performance of CDSII when using the Grahams Hydra, but not hugely significant. Having said that, I will be geting a separate spur for the HX1.2 at some time or other in the future.

Finally the 4 pin din to 2 phonos (Chord Chrysalis) is fine for demos, but if you decide to buy you should get two 4 pin din to 1 phono.

David

[This message was edited by David Hobbs-Mallyon on THURSDAY 25 April 2002 at 14:01.]

..for all the advice and encouragement. I checked with my friend today and he's happy to let me have the Dynavector this weekend. I have a friend staying with me this weekend who uses lp12/ekos/klyde/72/hi/250/SBLS and an ex dealer so we're both gagging to hear the DV; I'll post both our impressions. Points about warm-up noted and I'm able to run it off a different spur.

This came about because a colleague at work was telling me (about 2 years ago) of this hugely impressive and hugely expensive poweramp that he had bought to drive his BWs. He uses a Meridian CD player and preferred the DV to the 250 and 135s. For some reason this sprang into my mind the other day aso I asked him to remind me what power amp he had; he replied 'some Dynavector thing that cost 4K! Its called the HX something or other...'


I'd like to make one thing clear in advance: I can't afford the DV if I like it!!!...just like I couldnt afford SBLs but went for the dem and ended up buying them!

Steve

One of them is Victim.

P

Extremelygoodjudgement.

Alex

P...Youre being especially opaque here or am I missing your point; Victim?

The only word that springs to my mind is 'curious.'

We'll see just how curious I remain after the dem, victim or not.

Steve

Yesterday I heard one of these at some length. Far from being disjointed and bloody awful I would say it was coherent and bloody musical.

Alex

BTW Kit, do you think it likely that a company would make just two power amps, one absolutely stunning the other utter shite?

Interesting. I must say that in my equally limited experience the HX75 sounded better with Obs than Arcs. I have heard the Arcs sounding a bit bass disjointed with the 75. I put it down to the small room mainly - they seem to need room to breathe and homogonise. NACA5 and warm up may have been issues too. Just shows how crucial set-up and synergy are.

I hope you don't have to endure burning in hell for too long, or, perish the thought, for ever.

Alex

ebirah,

How did the demo go?

David

Thanks for your anticipation guys! Work has kept me on the computer but off the Net. Anyways:

Well, that was an interesting weekend; late nights, lots of booze, music and swapping around bits of kit. Both my friend and I were concordant in our deliberations, impressions and opinions so what you get here is an easy consensus of sorts. Front end was CDS1, 52, supercapLP12/aro/Klyde/geddon, all on mana. Shahinian Arcs. Music was Richard Thompson (various), Brass Monkey (going and staying), Metallica (Load), Jeff Beck (who else), Platypus (ice cycles), Satriani (Extremist), Gabriel (ovo) and Bozzio-Levin-Stevens.

From switch on it was clear the DV was much, much quieter than the 250, almost eerily so. No switch on thump and no audible hiss, no matter how quiet, from the listening position. The DV’s increased headroom is also a no-brainer – on practically everything we played, its sense of effortless ease was the best either of us had ever heard. There was no doubt it was much more controlled than the 250 – it went lower and tighter for example, but it was also more clearly etched – less glare, less smear, less in the way of rough-edges. Very, very clean without much character of its own, if any. Neutral. Powerful. The soundstage also went further in every single direction – for example my friends immediate impression on the first bit of music we heard, was that the soundstage rose 5 feet. All of this equals an enhanced sense of space versus the Naim, especially as the amp is quieter to start with.

The flip side of this is that whilst we were hugely impressed with the DV, if we were forced to find a negative attribute, both of us found it a little polite at times. On a lot of the stuff we tried, the slightly glassy, forward 250 was actually very appealing and involving (Please note glass and glare were only really apparent after comparison with the DV!). One piece of music was central to our deliberations; Gabriel’s Father, Son from Ovo. This is an astonishingly emotional piece and well-recorded to boot – it brought tears to my eyes on both amps. Nevertheless, it crystallized the differences between them. The Naim was hugely involving and upfront – big voice, big piano. The DV removed the rough edges, cleaned it up, and put in a stack-load of ambience. However, I felt with a bigger picture came a little less immediacy and perhaps involvement. There’s a noise gate (I think - actually sounds like some reverberating snare wires) that opens and closes between the piano phrases – paradoxically, this was much less apparent on the DV simply because it had to take its place in a bigger acoustic than the 250.

Of course, the final arbiter (for us at least) is price. The differences I’m talking about, whilst clearly audible, are subtle, as are most comparisons in this league of kit. Both amps were fantastically enjoyable but the DV is approx 2.5K more. We were cognisant that the fair dem would be 135s rather than 250. Nevertheless, if I had the choice, I’d have the DV and only take a couple of minutes to decide. If it was a case of shelling out the readies then other factors become relevant. Money-no-object = DV. If not, then I’d consider whether I needed a brute to drive my speakers – the DV certainly takes no prisoners in that arena. I’d love to hear what it could do with isobariks for example. Perhaps the most important factor would be the type of music preferred; the chap who owns this amp listens to loads of classical music and that made the sale for him – he could not resist the DVs effortless handling of large-scale crescendos, inky black silences, and soundstaging (he uses huge BW speakers, the name of which escapes me). I predominantly listen to rock and the Naim presentation appeals to me, especially when ameliorated to a degree by warm, open speakers (like the Arcs – in the past I have found Naim amps coupled with Naim speakers excellent but ultimately fatiguing). Furthermore, I’ve never been too fussed about power amps relative to other components – I like them to do a good job of driving the speakers, no more, no less. I find other components influence the sonic signature to a greater degree and would be inclined to spend there if the power amp was adequate. So, when cost comes into the equation, I’m happy to stay with the Naim. If I win the lottery, I may (would) change…

Steve

PS: A couple of other things emerged:
1. We concluded Naim amps are bloody good! Mine is a good few years old and hasn’t been recapped. Great value.
2. The 72 with a supercap is a mighty beast indeed! Perhaps the best VFM in the super-preamp league? That’s another story…

Cheers Steve

In NZ the HX1.2 is approx the same price as a new 250. OK, a little more but nothing to stress over.

Provides an interesting alternative when its time to boot the 180...
All that clean effortless grunt can be very addictive.

Good luck with the Lotto

Thank you for your thoughts. I am in complete agreement with every word you say. That's why I bought the HX1.2 (I was really lucky price-wise) and kept my 110, the latter far too much fun to ever get rid of.

I also found the 32.5/Supercap to be one of the best preamps I have owned and can only presume the 72/SC to be that bit better.

You could always dem an HX75 one day to see how that shapes up for you, its the same price as a 250.

Alex

Steve,

Your impressions match much of mine. Prior to the HX1.2, I had been using Naim power amplification for 10 years, so it does take some time to accomodate the difference, and of course not everyone will like it. I found that Naim was particularly good at emphasising the dominant sound within the space, hence the vocals or piano will sound good - but as the complexity increases, it tends to sound like it's rushing around powering one voice at a time. The Dynavector holds this all together in a more effortless manner, with the effect that the band sounds like it's playing more together.

David

Glad you had fun with the DV. The differences become much so more apparent with harder to drive speakers, which makes the amp even more of a bargain. The Arcs in comparisson are babies for the 1.2 to drive!


I sent you a mail, check that I got the address right!!!

Cheers
Goose

David – what you say rings very true after my dem. The 250 does seem to emphasize the dominant part, relative to the DV (and I cant stress enough that these are relative judgements – both are fine amps). My gut feeling is that the DV is more correct. The vibe from the 250 is not dissimilar to the Nait 1 I once had – not at all correct, a bit rushed, upfront, but great fun to listen to (rather like Kans also). No, I am not suggesting the Nait is as good as a 250, but there are famly characteristics that shine through, especially when compared to the DV.

Redeye – you have a tough decision! For me, the UK price differential makes further deliberation academic – unless the difference is night and day (and it rarely is at this level) then I’ll generally hang onto my cash (note, my present system does not bear the latter statement out!). I was recently offered a HX1.2 s/h but, even then, the difference between it and the price I’d get for my 250 is very significant in absolute terms. In your shoes, I would be very hard pressed not to take the DV. I had a 180 in my system a while ago and found it emphasized the features I ascribed to the 250 when compared to the DV. I think the 180 is a super amp, excellent VFM, but you will find the DV much cleaner and authoritative.

Perhaps when I get those Hawks or Diapasons, the DV will be mandatory?

Steve

Goose, I got your mail; check yours.

Kit,

Don't worry - mine makes a thump on power up as well.

David

After the 250 Vs HX1.2 battle, I put my system back together and got it all running, leaving it overnight to settle. On listening the next day I was very focussed on certain elements such as piano which just didn't sound right. After playing with my 140 it became clear that there was something not quite right with the 250. One channel runs out of steam when playing at V.high levels, or immediately after switch on. It looks like the caps are on the way out. I'm sending it to Naim for a full service when I get the cash together. The point of interest is that Steves 250 is the same age as mine - over 10 years old. Now I'm not saying there was anything wrong with his 250, but it made me wonder how much closer it might be.

In favour of the HX1.2 we used NACA5, whereas Kimber cable is normally preferred between the 1.2 and ARCs. (Lower inductance)

As I've said before, if I had a bigger room (and more money) I'd get the ARCs, but you can see a lot of live music and buy a huge amount of CDs for the cost of an upgrade to a 1.2. I think I'm at my spending limit. But if a bargain came up......

Noel,

Sorry to hear about your 250 but I know why.....you use yours as often as it should be used! Mine gathers dust for far too long although the ARCs have seen to it that I've used it far more in the last 6 months than the previous few years. It will be very intersting to try your perked-up 250 against mine.

Steve