Winding-up petition
Posted by: count.d on 08 June 2003
Having not been paid by an advertising agency the sum of £4,700.00 from Nov, Dec & Jan, I've had to engage the services of a solicitor to arrange a winding-up petition on the said company. This has cost me £750 and if the company does end up being wound-up, I'll probably lose the whole lot.
Roll the dice...
Are there any solicitor people out there who could throw some advice this way, or anyone in the know?
Roll the dice...
Are there any solicitor people out there who could throw some advice this way, or anyone in the know?
Posted on: 08 June 2003 by Chris Dolan
My initial reaction is that you should not hold out much hope of recovering anything......but if you do treat it as a bonus.
Once you get this far down the line the chances of getting paid are remote.
If you think the Company has the ability to pay but it simply refusing to do so, the threat of (or actually issuing) a winding up petition can be useful.
However if they don’t then pay it probably means they can’t.
Chris
Once you get this far down the line the chances of getting paid are remote.
If you think the Company has the ability to pay but it simply refusing to do so, the threat of (or actually issuing) a winding up petition can be useful.
However if they don’t then pay it probably means they can’t.
Chris
Posted on: 09 June 2003 by herm
quote:
Originally posted by Ross Blackman: This is therefore not legal advice and you should discuss this with your own lawyer. How's that for a legalistic disclaimer?
A lot better than Naheed's neanderthal advice. Geez! Let's go out and take our baseball bats... Who cares if you're the one who winds up in court?
Herman
Posted on: 09 June 2003 by count.d
Thanks for all the replies.
The company has had warning letters to pay, but ignored all.
The problem with sueing in the small claims court is that even if/when I did win, the costs are not added to the amount owed to me. So, I'd probably have to represent myself as the cost of a solicitor would be pretty high. I've also heard that some cheeky companies keep deferring the court date as it approaches by saying they're ill, etc...
With a winding-up petition, all legal costs are added to the amount owed. The only way I'll lose out is if the company does liquidate and if it does, I probably would never have seen the money anyway. If it does go into liquidation, the petition costs I incurred go to the top of the pile to be settled, but my original amount owed will still be in the unsecured creditor class and I'll never see that.
If I do lose the lot, I wonder if I could seek payment from the companies who the agency used my photography for? The copyright of the images is still mine.
The company has had warning letters to pay, but ignored all.
The problem with sueing in the small claims court is that even if/when I did win, the costs are not added to the amount owed to me. So, I'd probably have to represent myself as the cost of a solicitor would be pretty high. I've also heard that some cheeky companies keep deferring the court date as it approaches by saying they're ill, etc...
With a winding-up petition, all legal costs are added to the amount owed. The only way I'll lose out is if the company does liquidate and if it does, I probably would never have seen the money anyway. If it does go into liquidation, the petition costs I incurred go to the top of the pile to be settled, but my original amount owed will still be in the unsecured creditor class and I'll never see that.
If I do lose the lot, I wonder if I could seek payment from the companies who the agency used my photography for? The copyright of the images is still mine.
Posted on: 10 June 2003 by count.d
Thanks Alex for your long and detailed post.
Could you explain a little further. I am on cash accounting basis.
quote:
Don't forget that once the debt becomes 6 months old, you should issue a letter stating that you have claimed bad debt relief on the VAT, regardless of whether or not you are accounting for VAT on a cash basis.
Could you explain a little further. I am on cash accounting basis.
Posted on: 11 June 2003 by MichaelC
quote:
Originally posted by count.d:
Could you explain a little further. I am on cash accounting basis.
You need not do anything. Being on the cash accounting basis of accounting for VAT means that you do not pay over the output VAT on your sales until the customer pays. So, if you are unfortunate to have suffered a bad debt you will not have paid over the VAT in the first instance and will therefore not have to worry about reclaiming the VAT etc.
Mike
Posted on: 12 December 2003 by count.d
I just thought I'd keep you informed on the results of my claim.
I proceeded with a winding up petition and received all my money. It ended up costing the company who owed me the money, an additional £1,200. This was for solicitors fees. I have no idea how these fees got to £1,200, all the solicitors did was write a few letters and turned up at the court for an hour!
I've heard now, that the company is being forced into liquidation (or some other clever way to not pay suppliers and still continue trading).
So the lesson from my story is to act quick, hard and sod the consequences. Although I feel a little lucky.
I proceeded with a winding up petition and received all my money. It ended up costing the company who owed me the money, an additional £1,200. This was for solicitors fees. I have no idea how these fees got to £1,200, all the solicitors did was write a few letters and turned up at the court for an hour!
I've heard now, that the company is being forced into liquidation (or some other clever way to not pay suppliers and still continue trading).
So the lesson from my story is to act quick, hard and sod the consequences. Although I feel a little lucky.
Posted on: 12 December 2003 by Derek Wright
Count.D - how is your battle regarding the village noticeboard outside your house
Derek
<< >>
Derek
<< >>
Posted on: 12 December 2003 by Rasher
Count D - Congratulations. I have lost so much money in the past and have never had the result that you have had. Well done.
I generally now don't bother, as my investment in time to make claims just isn't worth it. It is really just a fact of life when running a business.
Sometimes I do fantasise about the baseball bat scenario.
I generally now don't bother, as my investment in time to make claims just isn't worth it. It is really just a fact of life when running a business.
Sometimes I do fantasise about the baseball bat scenario.
Posted on: 12 December 2003 by Tom F
Before reading the rest of this post please note that none of this is not legal advice and you may want to engage a solicitor in this matter.
This sounds like it may well be administration or a company voluntary arrangement (CVA). Now, I'm not an insovency lawyer, but the basis of the latter option is that the creditors are required to prove their debt to the insolvency practitioner. The next stage is for the company to set out a plan of how it intends to trade its way out of trouble while servicing the debt. In effect, the creditors are required to approve (by voting at a meeting) the plan. This then binds the creditors into receiving x pence in the pound. i also have a feeling there is a moritorium on suiing for the debt. Can't remember the rest (other than it being the trendy way to do things these days) so please see an insolvncy lawyer.
Sounds pretty cheap to me - I charge at the lowest rate in my firm and that's only 8 hours work for me!.
quote:
I've heard now, that the company is being forced into liquidation (or some other clever way to not pay suppliers and still continue trading).
This sounds like it may well be administration or a company voluntary arrangement (CVA). Now, I'm not an insovency lawyer, but the basis of the latter option is that the creditors are required to prove their debt to the insolvency practitioner. The next stage is for the company to set out a plan of how it intends to trade its way out of trouble while servicing the debt. In effect, the creditors are required to approve (by voting at a meeting) the plan. This then binds the creditors into receiving x pence in the pound. i also have a feeling there is a moritorium on suiing for the debt. Can't remember the rest (other than it being the trendy way to do things these days) so please see an insolvncy lawyer.
quote:
I have no idea how these fees got to £1,200, all the solicitors did was write a few letters and turned up at the court for an hour!
Sounds pretty cheap to me - I charge at the lowest rate in my firm and that's only 8 hours work for me!.
Posted on: 12 December 2003 by count.d
You've got a good memory Derek. The village notice board is still in front of my house, now for the ten months 13 days and two hours (not that it's bothering me). We are trying the diplomatic, asking nicely method, but they are so slow. It really is like the tv programme Vicar of Dibley.
They apparently will be moving it, but they can't decide where. They have also applied for a grant for a new board and landscaping. This no doubt will drag on for a further few months.
It's my first taste of Parish Council/Council decisions and it's not particularily pleasant.
Thanks Rasher, the baseball bat was a close second option. If I hadn't taken a risk with the solicitor, I would have felt worse if the company didn't pay me and went into liquidation. I would have felt stupid. I've now learnt not to listen to excuses about delaying payment.
They apparently will be moving it, but they can't decide where. They have also applied for a grant for a new board and landscaping. This no doubt will drag on for a further few months.
It's my first taste of Parish Council/Council decisions and it's not particularily pleasant.
Thanks Rasher, the baseball bat was a close second option. If I hadn't taken a risk with the solicitor, I would have felt worse if the company didn't pay me and went into liquidation. I would have felt stupid. I've now learnt not to listen to excuses about delaying payment.
Posted on: 12 December 2003 by count.d
quote:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have no idea how these fees got to £1,200, all the solicitors did was write a few letters and turned up at the court for an hour!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sounds pretty cheap to me - I charge at the lowest rate in my firm and that's only 8 hours work for me!.
I knew I should have tried harder at school.
Posted on: 12 December 2003 by Derek Wright
Count.d - you are a very model of tolerance - I would have given them two weeks and then backed into the notice board and so help them to reprioritise the notice board issue
Derek
<< >>
Derek
<< >>
Posted on: 12 December 2003 by garyi
Seriously 8 hours work for that sort of money is just glutoney.
What this world needs is less of you!
What this world needs is less of you!