Credo's, IBLs and SBLs

Posted by: Allan Probin on 21 April 2001

Despite making a number of upgrades to my system in the last twelve months I've been quite happy to continue using IBLs. The IBLs are very communicative, digging deep into the essence of the music and have never failed to pass on the benefits (or otherwise) of changes to other parts of the system. So my system has now reached the CDS2/52/135/IBL level with the boxes sat on two MusicWorks modded Quadraspire racks - and pretty good it was sounding too.

Then I made the mistake of hearing a pair of current spec SBLs in a system the same as mine in a room same size as mine. This experience totally changed my opinion of SBLs. I've had SBLs in the past and given up on them due to bass dificulties which I put down to a smaller room (14ft x 11ft). However, since then I've made a number of equipment changes, including stands (and the floor!), plus I've never actually heard current spec SBLs in my system.

I decided I had to try SBLs again and also, as a comparison, Credo's. Two pairs of speakers arrived yesterday.

First up, the Credo's

Credo's: If I'd tried these speakers twelve months ago against the IBLs they wouldn't have lasted longer than about five minutes in my system. It must be because I'm getting older, but recently I've moved away from the pace, rhythm and timing dogma and now I'm looking for something a bit different. There are a couple of major things I want from my system. I want a convincing degree of transparency, I don't ever expect to get the sound of a live band right there in front of me, but I want to be able to enjoy the music without being reminded that I'm listening to a HiFi system (an overtly fast system is just as culpable as a slow system in this respect). Also, I want to be able to enjoy listening to music for as much as three or four hours at a time without fatigue setting in.

Compared to the IBLs the Credos sounded vieled and fuzzy, yet they were relaxed and easy going. Perhaps relaxed to the point that they weren't exactly attention grabbing and I found myself drifting off to thoughts of other things. But the sound was pleasant enough. Certainly more bass than the IBLs but the bass wasn't as tuneful and tended to be a bit one-note-ish and thumpy. Where the Credo's did score convincingly over the IBLs was when the volume level was turned up a bit. With the Credo's the character of the sound remained the same, it just got louder. On the other hand, the IBLs harden-up noticeably whenever you start approaching "loud" and this tends to limit the overall dynamics of the system. The Credo's seem to free-up the system in this respect and allows the system to swing much larger dynamic ranges.

After about an hour of listening to the Credo's I put the IBLs back in. Quite a contrast, the IBLs sounded fresh and clean, lighter but faster. The Credo's are pleasant enough but overall I still found the IBLs strengths to outweigh any shortcomings.

At this stage I'm thinking - damn, these IBLs are good. When it comes to the SBL comparison I'm sure its going to be down to minor nitpicking.

SBLs: These are one year old, ex-dem, like brand-new, everything current spec, cherry finish. I knew within seconds that these speakers were in a different league to the Credo's and IBLs. Take all the good points of the Credo (but more so), add all the good points of the IBLs (but more so), thats the SBL. The entire character of the system had shifted gear and moved to a higher level. Music seemed to just flow effortlessly through the system. I'd reached one of those points where everything in the system works together beutifully to produce something totally seamless and integrated. As good as the IBLs are, they were choking the system. Where the SBLs flow smoothly and effortlessly, the IBLs in comparison seem to cough and splutter. The sound is now much more naturally in proportion - size, weight, body, timbre and so on. And enjoyable - huge grins.

Bass problems ? not even a hint. I've got the cabinets 4" from the wall and they could probably stand moving closer by another inch or so, but its sounding so right as it is that I don't think I can be bothered at the moment.

I wasn't really expecting such a comprehensive difference but was just looking to improve on the weight and scale of the IBLs. The SBLs certainly do that - and then some.

Allan.

Posted on: 21 April 2001 by Dev B
Excellent Allan, glad you got on well with the sbl's look forward to a get together soon (ps can I hear you ibls!)

dev

Posted on: 21 April 2001 by Ade Archer
Allan,
Glad to hear you've found a pair. Your account is exactly how I've felt since my SBL's have settled into my system.
I have been somewhat frustrated at times having upgraded to CDX/82/hi/140/AVI Biggatrons and always having the nagging feeling that something wasn't quite right.
Now, the AVI's are excellent speakers for the money, but it is clear that I had been convinced by the 'source first' approach, and until I tried SBL's, I didn't realise how much the rest was being held back by them. There was still plenty of scope to upgrade every component before the speakers if I so wished, but clearly there comes a point when the system is out of balance
I'm sure the AVI's would have still shown the superiority of a CDS or 52, but changing them for SBL's, I am now keener than I have been for a very long time to just spend my money on vinyl and cd's instead of expensive boxes.

Cheers

Adrian

Posted on: 21 April 2001 by P
Thanks for the post Allan

Having the same electronics as yourself I have been more than musing of late as to wether it was time for a speaker upgrade.

Ever since I heard "The New Ones" at Bristol (how 'bout that new name Naim?) I have been convinced that although the Credos are a fine speaker something is certainly lacking in the overall detail and basic SNARL department. Don't get me wrong the Credos are mostly great speakers - piano and guitar passages like for real at times - but they do lack.

We have been listening to a lot of music in our household recently and only the other day my other half said "Y'know, I'm sure there's an awfull lot more going on than we're hearing at the moment - do you think WE should get some new speakers"!!!!

Wahoo!! - even a Royal "We" ( I'm still paying though! sort of)


Question for you Allan - Did you check out the NBL's at all in your trials?

I realise they cost 3 times the SBLs and I fully realise we all have limits but I am intending upgrading for the long term and may eventually end up with a 500 or 3.

I have however always yearned for a pair of SBLs and your posting has me wondering.

My dilemma is compounded by the fact we have just bought a new house with solid internal walls and the new listening room will be 19' x 17' so it's essentially a whole new acoustic ball game.

The Credos work very well in our current situation but I do have my doubts about the new abode.

Would SBLs be the ones?

Should it be the NBL's (DBL's are out on cost)

Should I wait for the New Ones?

Can anybody recommend a GOOD dealer in the Buckinghamshire / Bedfordshire / Northamptonshire area?

I will certainly try before I buy

Cheers

P

Posted on: 21 April 2001 by Allan Probin
Thanks for the replies,

Pierre, NBLs are out of the question for me (financially and physically), but in your situation I wouldn't hesitate to audition them in a room that size.

As for waiting for the Credo replacement, I would speculate that performance wise it'll sit somewhere mid-way between the Credo and SBL.

The SBL replacement is a bit less certain and you may be better off waiting for that. It'll either be essentially a cosmetic update and taking the price to about £3k or a significant reworking and re-positioning in the market with a price closer to £4k. I'm leaning towards it being the latter. Either way, current SBLs are still excellent value for money. Get 'em while you can !

Allan

Posted on: 21 April 2001 by John C
Allan excellent review. Will you be trying the Mana soundbases under them?:p

John

Sorry couldn't resist

Posted on: 21 April 2001 by ken c
allan: yah, just what i thought from your postings early this morning!! i dont know the credos, but i upgraded from ibl's to sbl's so i share your experience. be aware that they are going to sound even better as they "settle in" (i assume they are already "run in" since they are 2nd hand) -- but you know this already anyway...

enjoy...

ken

Posted on: 22 April 2001 by Mick P
Mr P

You womdered about SBL's in your room which measures 19 ft x 17 ft.

My room measures 21 ft x 13 and my SBL's fire across the room rather than down. Also they are postioned on either side of a fireplace which in theory is not good.

They sound good and I see no reason why yours should not do the same. SBL's are very tolerant of rooms and even your new one which is almost square should not present much of a problem.

I found that toeing them in very slightly made a significant improvement, so you will need to experiment.

SBL's have that typical Naim sound and if you like that sound, you will love the SBL.

Regards

Mick

Posted on: 22 April 2001 by ken c
mick says:

quote:
SBL's have that typical Naim sound and if you like that sound...

interesting you mention this "naim sound" which we all seem to know and love -- and sorely miss when its not there.

the hard thing, perhaps, is describing this in words -- but i guess its always difficult to describe a particular sound, or is it??

anyone care to try?? dont tell me its far better to just listen and enjoy it -- i KNOW that!!!

enjoy...

ken

Posted on: 22 April 2001 by P
Thanks for that Mick

I am seriously considering the SBL but I am also pondering over the NBLs too.


I have never heard either in the kind of room I am moving to so I will have to find a decent dealer in the home counties who would oblige a home dem.

Here's hoping

Regards

P.