New CD player

Posted by: bazz on 06 October 2002

So, the old Pioneer PD75 finally died after a lingering illness, (don’t laugh, it was ok in its day) and it’s time for a new CD player.

I have LP12/Ittok/Karma/ NAT03/32.5/Hicap/250/Epos ES14, so I suppose the obvious candidate, on reputation anyway because I haven't heard one, would be a CD5. Problem is they cost around $5k here in Oz & I don't have a lazy five lying around at the moment to splash out.

While I was considering my sad dilemma a local (non Naim) dealer kindly loaned me a Planet 2000 to try. The Planet really surprised me, I didn't realise how good they are. But then I’ve been out of the loop for a while, the last piece of hi-fi I bought was a black snaic & even then I wasn’t looking at CD players.

Encouraged by the Planet, a couple of days ago I gave it back and borrowed a Jupiter. It was brand new, straight out of the box, so it's just sitting on an Audiotech table spinning to itself at the moment. I've had a couple of sneaky listens and it sounds good already, more refined and spacious than the Planet but if memory serves, not near as punchy as the Naim CD3 I heard a couple of years ago. Refined and spacious could be OK though, seeing my tastes these days include a fair bit of chamber music & solo piano (which the Planet does amazingly well). I like the look of the Regas too.

Second hand could be an option but used Naims aren't exactly thick on the ground here. The only possibility I can find at the moment is a used CD3.5 for $3k, which is more than the price of a new Jupiter.

You may think that if I can afford to think about a Jupiter I should just go and get the CD5, but it ain't that simple. Here, the Jupiter costs only a bit more than half the price of the Naim. Something of a disparity I feel, given that the price difference in their home market is what, 15-20%? Either the Naim has too many greedy middlemen on the way to Oz or the Rega is an extraordinary bargain. Probably a bit of both I suspect. Having said that, I realise that Naim gear is good value at almost any price because it does the job and lasts practically forever. (I've had my 250 since 1982).

It does make my decision harder though. Is the CD5 twice as good as the Jupiter? Somehow I doubt it.
The question is probably academic anyway, because I seriously doubt that I would fork over that much for any drink coaster spinner, even if it did the washing and got me a beer from the fridge.

I know that the Rega/Naim issue has already received a bit of a flogging on the Forum, having followed every step of Nuno's tortuous path (and a few others) so I'll get to the point.

Another (Naim) dealer strongly recommends the Rotel CDP1070 as a lower priced alternative. There are apparently none of these around at the moment to audition and won't be for a couple of weeks until the next shipment arrives. Anybody heard one? Any other suggestions?

My own experience with Rotel has been less than thrilling. I tried the then highly rated 965BX in my system a few years ago and thought it may just possibly make a passable paperweight.

I tend to buy hi-fi for the long haul, so I don't want to stuff this up. I'll know more about the Jupiter in a few days, but it does look the best option at the moment. Maybe even a Planet would do.

BTW, I went to see Joe Cocker last night here in Newcastle. What a legend the man is, he’s lost none of his vocal power over the years. A truly great show, best I've seen for years. I came home and played Joe records until 3am.
Posted on: 06 October 2002 by Mario
Hi Bazz, you really should consider getting the cd5, it really is amazing, more importantly,once you've lived with a naim cd player, everything else seems very UNINVOLVING. The good news is that the CD5 sells for about A$3.8,(not $5k) well it did when I bought mine here in Oz about 12 months ago, best regards Mario.

[This message was edited by Mario on SUNDAY 06 October 2002 at 10:35.]
Posted on: 06 October 2002 by NB
BAZZ

If you cant strech to a CD5 go and have a listen to the Roksan Caspian CD player.

I owned one for two years and was very happy with it. It gives the performance of a top CD player for less than the price of the Naim CD's.


Regards


NB
Posted on: 06 October 2002 by bazz
Mario,

Who did you buy your CD5 from? I was quoted $5k over the phone from a Sydney dealer last week.
Email me if you like.

Thanks
Posted on: 06 October 2002 by Mario
Bazz
I bought my cd5 from Audio Genesis in Pyrmont, but that was in September 2001. I can't see how prices could have changed that much. Mario.

p.s. a flatcap 2 power supply cost me A$1700 in May this year.
Posted on: 06 October 2002 by louis_lx
if a drill a hole in my garden, passing through the earth center, i´m shure it will get to your mansion...

Anyone has a CDX for me ?

My system: CD3 + 72 + 140 + REGA XEL
Posted on: 06 October 2002 by Nuno Baptista
Baz:
Rega source and Naim cd players are totally diferent.That´s you have to decide.
For 600£ Exposure 2010 is maybe the better choice and plays well with Naim.But if Júpiter was half the price of CD 5 here in Portugal,then I will buy Júpiter,definitly!
Regards

MY sistem : Naim Nait 5 amplifier,Nad c 540 cd player,B&W 601 speakers,Naca5
Posted on: 06 October 2002 by David Robert Bell
Hi Bazz,

I'm a fellow naim lover in Newcastle!

The guys at Audio Genesis are great. Don't forget Audio One at Neutral Bay. They also stock Naim and are friendly and helpful.

I only wish there were someone in Newcastle who sells naim.

Since you're looking to spend a decent amount of cash and what's a few more thousand try to get a home demo of CDX v CD5 v any others and work out which gives you the best bang for your buck.

I've heard the CD5 and it's excellent but I'm holding my cash to buy a CDX.

David
Posted on: 06 October 2002 by Vik
given your electronics and budget, a used CDX or CDI(cdm-4 mech) will do nicely. your system won't really, beyond a point, reflect the diff between the rega players and the older naim cd players, because they are broadly similar, both good.

now, the older naims, like the rega (to a lesser degree), are fast sounding versus their peers of their day and can still fight with many new brands in this regard, including SACD machines playing back hybrid disks in DSD format.

but nothing matches the new 5 series componenents for speed*. and if any system can relect that speed, wow......

but since the older ones do a very good job anyway, without direct reference, you'd never know. besides, all you need is something similar sounding to your turntable to be happy.

But if you think you must have the CD5, good for you. There is no real mismatch when you introduce 5 series' or the new Classic series Naims at Source, to older Naim amplification.

It only gets weird when you match, for example, a older preamp with the newer poweramps, vice-versa, because the older ones are just slower and fuzzier sounding.

vik

*(what i mean by) better speed = better resolution and communication of tempo variations = better listener understanding of music = more emotional involvement with the music.
Posted on: 07 October 2002 by bazz
Thanks to all those who have responded, especially Vik for your insightful comments. David Bell, it's good to know that I am not alone in this Naim outpost.

I've had a good listen to the Jupiter now that it's warmed up. It's an impressive machine, very pure & tuneful. I'm sure that I could live with one without any problems at all, in fact I don't want to give it back!

I haven't seen Roksan or Exposure in any of my travels, don't even know if they are available here. The CDI is an interesting possibility though. I wonder when the CDM-4 transport was introduced? I imagine a service would probably be required, seeing that production ceased in 1995 and the newest CDI would now be seven years old.

Fortunately I'm on hols at the moment so in the interests of balance I'll trek around the Sydney dealers this week and see what's available. Shouldn't take too long, there's only two of them.

[This message was edited by bazz on MONDAY 07 October 2002 at 11:52.]
Posted on: 07 October 2002 by Nuno Baptista
Bazz:
After hear CD 5,tell us what you think about.

MY sistem : Naim Nait 5 amplifier,Nad c 540 cd player,B&W 601 speakers,Naca5
Posted on: 07 October 2002 by Vik
get a CD5 when you can, or a CD3.0/3.5 for starters. When you've saved enough, you can put your faith in the new CDX2 also.... from what I forsee, it's going to be the best value CD player in the world. (I'm a vinyl guy).

I've done demos for fun with a Naimed LP12, NAT01, CDS2 and Wadia 861 where the N5 can really take a lot of signal. And to make it really wicked, I even had them run Magneplanar 1.6 and SBLs - loud volumes - there are limits - i'd probably destroy the N5 through Apogees or the Maggie 3.6, so i'll never do that demo, even for myself when the shop is empty.

Oh hey, try intros or credos when you can. These may not have the expressiveness of a Kan, but the bass grunt and overall speed makes for a very, very insightful presentation.

vik

PS Bazz... a good way to check is to look at the nextel ring around the rim of a CDM-4 spindle. The more intact the ring, HOPEFULLY, the less used the machine. Recap it for best results, and you're THERE
Posted on: 09 October 2002 by Nuno Baptista
quote:
Originally posted by bazz:


I've had a good listen to the Jupiter now that it's warmed up. It's an impressive machine, very pure & tuneful. I'm sure that I could live with one without any problems at all, in fact I don't want to give it back!



[This message was edited by bazz on MONDAY 07 October 2002 at 11:52.]

Bazz:
Do you think that Júpiter has the same pace,rythm and timing as a Naim cd player?

MY sistem : Naim Nait 5 amplifier,Nad c 540 cd player,B&W 601 speakers,Naca5
Posted on: 09 October 2002 by John Sheridan
quote:
Why do you say Jùpiter ?


does a Frenchman really need to ask someone why accents are used? Nuno is Portuguese, how do you think Jupiter is written there? 10 points if you say Júpiter.
Posted on: 09 October 2002 by bazz
Well, I had a demo of the CD5 yesterday, with Nait 5 as preamp, 150 and Allaes. Also tried it with and without Flatcap 2 and briefly substituted a 3.5 for comparison.

I liked the CD5 straight away, it obviously has the tight, punchy Naim sound we all know and love and a fair bit of refinement too, particularly with the Flatcap in situ. The 3.5 was dismissed after a couple of tracks. It just couldn't hold up in direct comparison with the CD5, although on it's own I'm sure would have been ok.

The lovely guys at Audio Genesis loaned me their 2 week old demo machine to take home for a trial. By the way, Mario, you had had the price right, it is $3.8k not the $5k some dope quoted me over the phone last week. My apologies to all the greedy middlemen I may have insulted.

I plugged the CD5 in last night and it sounded good straight out of the box. It doesn't have the 'moving coil' midrange and general sweetness of the Jupiter but it's much more dynamic and I think a better package overall, in my system at least. I imagine it will get even better with use. It won't be going back.

Hardly a surprising result I suppose given that the rest of my gear, apart from the speakers, is all Naim. It was interesting to try the Regas though, they are both fine machines. The Jupiter sounds how I imagine a valve CD player would sound

That gives me five Naim boxes and aiming for six. I'll be up with the big boys soon!

[This message was edited by bazz on THURSDAY 10 October 2002 at 14:18.]
Posted on: 09 October 2002 by David Robert Bell
Hi Bazz,

Well done. I'd like to try and link up with you at some stage and compare notes!

The comarison demo is the only way to go.

I'm sure you've outclassed the pioneer!

David
Posted on: 10 October 2002 by Mario
Well done Bazz, the cd5 will get better with a bit more use, your valuable system now has a source that will do it justice. Parting with money is much easier when the people recieving it have treated and informed you well. For me, naim are the only ones who have really nailed cd performance, like the competition winner once said,"Now Analog Isn't Mandatory", enjoy the pleasue of beautiful music!

Mario.
Posted on: 10 October 2002 by seagull
This thread was started on Sunday 6th October and reached a happy conclusion today! smile
Posted on: 10 October 2002 by Nuno Baptista
I hope my choice have a happy conclusion.
BTW,this treath has been very helpfull for me with a comparison Jupiter / CD 5.
And the winner is ...

MY sistem : Naim Nait 5 amplifier,Nad c 540 cd player,B&W 601 speakers,Naca5