The Swedish way

things are at least as bad in other countries.

Howard

David

Maybe they are trying to re-introduce that cash replacement card thingy?

Lots of good things in Sweden though - however banking does seem pretty backward thinking to me.

What do you do over there by the way?

Hälsningar!

Stephen

David, it's just a silly proposal from few people at "Finansinspektionen" I think. To silly to be taken seriously imo.

Agree with a lot in your post though...

In Ireland, the major scandal in recent years has centred around corrupt politicians receiving wads of cash in "brown envelopes" so that big business can haave their way.

If cash ceased to exist and all monetary transactions were electronic resulted in an end of this abuse, I'd be all for it.

Regards P

There is no real need for cash these days. Secure electronic wallets is where we need to be. I see the whole Swedish move as quite inspired.

When I lived in NZ I would rarely have more than $20 in my wallet. Living in the UK I need to think about having money in all denominations on me at all times! Machines that only take notes, machines that only take coins, machines that just take and give nothing in return!

J

A cashless society is a bad thing. It places too much control in the hands of government whether it be for information, stats, tracking, behavior or simply limiting choices.

Cash gives citizens and consumers the ability to responsible for their own choices and allows them a higher degree of privacy.

Now you know where Tony Blair will have dreamt up this idea next week...another nail in the coffin.

Dear Friends,

Democrasy is such a reflective and strange thing.

As someone, undoubtedly British, I look at the possibility of a democrasy in Irak making GW Bush happy and shake my head in disbelief that he could be so simple as to suppose the reults will be what he (or Blair) hope for, and I think the only good that may come of it is that the Kurds and Marsh Arabs in the South may overthrow the yoke of Saddam Hussein's Suni dominated dictatorship...

Sweden has praciced some ideas that many would find surprisong in the world, post the Nazi doctrine, not the least of which was eugenics, which now thankfully is also passed. Why should foriegners be surprised that a different culture throws up ideas we find extra-ordinary?

I am half Norwegian and still find that country's politics more or less impenetrable. The question of how Germans are thought of [and actually treated] has indeed coloured my view of Germans, but I hope tempered by a British sensibility and tolerance. Even good friends hold views we as a nation and culture find more or less shocking. Really that should be no surprise once one realises how different people are, let alone whole races and cultures. But it is not necessary, for political correctess' sake to believe them right. One just accepts the difference, and as with the French view in comparison to the British, celebrate the fact that we can all say, "Vive La Difference!" So long as we are not expected to necessarily like the idea itself, or cow-tow to its influence!

All the best from Fredrik.

PS. Re-reading that, I have just realised, whatever good may have actually have come from it, why the British Empire was not sustainable, or possibly have been a good thing for the rest of the world. The USA wanted to dismemeber it in 1945, and though Churchill was appalled, maybe the the US was actually right enough, in that case... Though there are reasonable grounds, from the British perspective, to think the US is wrong as often as not.

quote:

Originally posted by Tristram:
A cashless society is a bad thing. It places too much control in the hands of government whether it be for information, stats, tracking, behavior or simply limiting choices.

Cash gives citizens and consumers the ability to responsible for their own choices and allows them a higher degree of privacy.

So cash is the only thing standing between us and Big Brother? I thought that was ID cards? Or was it banks?

There are plenty of electronic ways to replicate off-line cash transactions.

What percentage of meaningful trans are not tracked today? I know of no one with cash under their beds or gold in suitcases. Maybe I mix with the wrong people!

Cheers
Jay

I must admit that I was glad to be able to pay my one Swedish taxi fare by credit card. But now I'm terrified that the Swedish PM will tell Tony Blair.

That is not to say that I don't think the misuse of information isn't a serious issue but most people have credit cards and routinely use them. A Tesco store card is another matter entirely...

quote:

Originally posted by MichaelC:
Now you know where Tony Blair will have dreamt up this idea next week...

You think he reads this forum?

I wonder what hi-fi he has?



Stephen

What David is referring to is just what Bjorne said. It´s a couple of idiots at finansinspektionen ( they are not politicians)who thought they have come up with a bright idea. One other reason is to bring down the amount of black money in Swedish society.
It will never happen, were not that stupid we Swedes. Not even PM Persson
I for one would will not use creditcards everytime I want to buy something. Too many frauds.
Gunnar

I agree with Gunnar, but since I do pay taxes (which, for me is quite high), I'm pissed off by all black market transitions that amounts to alot of billions in avoided taxes. I guess our society would be better off without black economy
(I might change point of view when it comes to renovating the kitchen )

Another point of view is to look at the fenomenon that yielded this strange idea.

quote:

a couple of armed robberies of security vans moving currency around

Hmm,
There are alot (there have been several hundreds) of armed robberies of security vans in Sweden, one of the highest (relative) rates in all EC, I think.
The union hat represents the security employes demanded police escort for all transportation of money, but where of course dismissed...

I like cash, especially to hand over a big chunk of money when buying HiFi

Regards
Rickard

If 'cash' was to disapear just imagine the value that gold would reach,................ oh, forgot, someone sold all of the uk's to prop up the euro.......

A cashless society, now one wonders just where microsoft would become involved with that?

Rino..
We have problems when trying to hand over Large amounts of cash for purchases such as cars & expensive Hi Fi.. money laundering rule n all....

quote:

Originally posted by Stephen Bennett:

quote:

Originally posted by MichaelC:
Now you know where Tony Blair will have dreamt up this idea next week...

You think he reads this forum?

I wonder what hi-fi he has?



Stephen

Could make a good game, starter for ten - I bet he is a Bose man.

quote:

Originally posted by MichaelC:

Could make a good game, starter for ten - I bet he is a Bose man.

All smoke and mirrors and expensive suits. Concealing cheap and tawdry innards beneath the glossy surface. Grossly underperforming for the price we are all asked to pay. And frequently displayed in posh surroundings? How very apt!

quote:

Originally posted by PatG:
In Ireland, the major scandal in recent years has centred around corrupt politicians receiving wads of cash in "brown envelopes" so that big business can haave their way.

If cash ceased to exist and all monetary transactions were electronic resulted in an end of this abuse, I'd be all for it.

Regards P

Abolish brown envelopes then....

I think cash has had its day. We used to swap chickens or labour for products or services in the same way we swap bits of paper today and its time for the next phase. Have you ever tried to stuff your pockets full of enough cash for a night out in Nigeria for example? You need bloody big pockets! Practical issues for the "developed" (ha) and "developing" nations will obvbiously be different but the basic premis is that using paper cash for transactions has to come to an end sooner or later.

However I do have reservations regarding the obvious alternatives. Removing the cash element will undoubtedly address the type of robberies which spurned this discussion but unfortunately it will do nothing to address those responsible. They will simply move on and align their "ingenuity" to the next phase.

Card and PIN? Already more than fallable.
Biometrics? How long before a simple robbery necessitates chopping off someones finger or the removal of an eye?

The whole issue of "big brother" is a little scary too but I have to wonder how much worse it might be than it is now. The use of cards and mobile phones can already track our movements so the real issue would be data protection and this is already a major concern, with identity theft becoming the next boon for the criminal world.

So what does that leave us with? Buggered if I know, Im just a punter but at the end of the day cash isnt safe so we need to come up with a viable alternative.......and stop being a bunch of bleeding hearts when it comes to dispensing "justice" to those found guilty of criminal acts.....but thats probably for another thread!

What about artificial intelligence? The industrial jobs and unskilled workforce have been largely soaked up in the offices of the service industries.
But what happens when Sharon goes on pregnancy leave and her job is taken? Not by a male colleague this time but by a Kawasaki? Before long the mindless, ruthless management systems of today would have the whole lot of you out of a job. Bartar would swiftly take over as the sole means to survive as society collapses and the managers move into armored and protected ivory towers to continue international trade with the developing nations. But without paying customers the IE-driven system finally collapses like the twin towers and we all end up looking like extras in Waterworld.

Artificial intelligence.....from the example mentioned I would suggest we are already a long way down that road. Managers in armoured towers trading with developing nations and I already have friends looking like waterworld extras. Any future return to the barter system would of course have to exclude chickens due to the bird flu. Then again with BSE excluding cows for human consumption and as cows have now developed a taste for sheep offal, they may develop into carniverous beasts. Once the transition from herbivore is complete, the most common bovine species may display significantly increased levels of intelligence and decide they want a seat in the ivory tower too. Then where will we be?

Probably being milked... as usual?

quote:

Originally posted by Nime:
But what happens when Sharon goes on pregnancy leave and her job is taken? Not by a male colleague this time but by a Kawasaki? Before long the mindless, ruthless management systems of today would have the whole lot of you out of a job.

We already have "off-shoring" of jobs to places with lower staff costs.

I guess that would be "off-specieing" or perhaps "off-proteining".

Ugh!

cheers, Martin