The John Lewis list

I actually thought that the John Lewis list was a good idea. "This is what it is reasonable to spend on X" seems a perfectly reasonable way to go about it to me. When my father's work caused us to need to have a second home in the US they paid for the apartment and utilities and then paid a fixed, and not insubstantial living allowance on top of that. I don't really think that MPs do any better out of their expenses than most people in private industry do, in fact I suspect in a lot of cases they don't do nearly so well. I would quite like to run for Parliament, I would like to think I would be able to do some good, but the money is by no means attractive, I'm amazed that politics manages to attract anyone competent... oh wait...

Fixed salary + distance weighting, constituency to Parliament. As for accommodation, use Army barracks. If it is good enough for the Forces, it is more than good enough for MPs.

The more complicated a system, the more ways there are to abuse it.

GBP 750, build a decent secondhand system.

Cheers,
OW

Aren't they supposed to be too busy to listen to hifi? That's what they always tell us.

quote:

Originally posted by bob mccluckie:
Aren't they supposed to be too busy to listen to hifi? That's what they always tell us.

Spot on - when they are in the second home they are supposed to be working or sleeping - they don't need a £750 stereo - most of them wouldn't know how to plug it in and switch it on anyway.

I begrudge paying any money to MPs as they only waste it. I'm with OW on this the accommodation should be functional and no reason why several MPs shouldn't share to keep costs down. I think every effort should be made to see how we can reduce the cost of Government, it is far too expensive for what it delivers.

First off I'd like to see performance related pay introduced for MPs.

quote:

Originally posted by ROTF:
First off I'd like to see performance related pay introduced for MPs.

Dear ROTF,

That means they would have to pay into the public purse, not draw from it!

But on a serious note, the dearth of top talent in the Government and Opposition Parties is deeply worrying. I am all for paying them much more, but reducing the number of MPs to say 200. In that way we could pay them perhaps three times as much as a salary, whilst saving a fortune on the expenses claims for the redundant 450. In this way we might attract the kind of top talent that currently is drawn to the top jobs in the City, Industry, and Trade Union Movement.

I am absolutely serious about this. Amalgamate the constituencies three to one, and get some proper brains into the remaining jobs.

I heard the Government referred to as a eunuch today, and I think that about sums up Mr Brown's increasingly apparently inept contribution over the last twelve years.

George

Piggies - Snouts - Troughs


Peter

Aparently the John Lewis list is gone. However the new scheme is every bit as generous... So that's OK then.

quote:

I begrudge paying any money to MPs

This is of course only a relatively recent idea, over the last 100 years or so. Previously MPs weren't paid, so only the rich (and thereby likely even more underqualified to represent us...) got the job. And shortly before that, there were fewer of them and before that they were unelected in any real sense and even more rotten so be careful what you wish for... There have ever only been a handful of MPs at any one time who are recognised as truly doing a strong and representational job, some of them famous, Wellington, Lloyd George, Disraeli. Many of them less so but the lesser known numbers have often forced through the case for reform, whether related to Corn Laws or emancipation for example.

What has perhaps changed the most is the public's lack of agitation. Most reforms have been brought by the perceived threat of an English, British or Irish revolution and a threat to The Order of things. Not much threat of that these days. Maybe we should try harder?

I don't mind MPs getting paid but I don't think they should be allowed to take other employment outside of Westminster as well. They are paid a salary in return for a full-time job representing their constituents. I know my employer wouldn't be too pleased if I took outside employment and went missing from work for significant chunks of the week.

Outside employment should simply be against their terms of employment (like it is for most employee's). If a prospective candidate doesn't feel dedicated enough to that singular role then they shouldn't stand be standing for parliament anyway. Not only does it sell the taxpayer short but there is always the suspicion of conflict of interest.

The real piggies are the ones who swan about between Strasbourg and Brussels, not the lobby fodder in Westminster. Can you name your MEP? No, I thought not.

This whole scenario stinks.

There seems to be a culture of greed at the moment within certain parts of our society - The BBC bonuses are another recent example, and it is you and I who pay for it.

On the one hand we are told not to waste food and then we are asked 'by the way have you seen my new kitchen'?

quote:

then we are asked 'by the way have you seen my new kitchen'?

No MP has ever asked me to look at their kitchen.

I am surprised the Strasbourg/Brussels nonsense hasn't been adopted; one month in London, one in Edinburgh, then Cardiff.

Strasbourg/Brussels - what is the official explanation for the rotation?

Cheers,
OW

quote:

Can you name your MEP? No, I thought not.

Have I got one - what does he/she do - apart from riding the Gravy Train?

Current salary for an MEP is £60,277 I believe...if you think that is a gravy train feel free to jump on it.....even better, if all MP's and MEP's are a waste of space you could run for office and do something about it. I mean after, all you could leave your current job, grab an easier one where no-one does anything and get handsomely paid for it....what could be easier? All you have to do is persuade your friends and neighbors in your neck of the woods to vote for you. Oh you have to live away from home most of the time so you don't have to worry about taking care of your kids every day either.

Just a general comment not aimed at anyone in particular.

Cheers

Jim

quote:

Current salary for an MEP is £60,277 I believe.

Plus unlimited expenses and free this that and the other - the Kinnocks haven't done too badly from it. £60k+ tax free - it is way OTT. Hardly anybody votes for MEPs anyway - I think the turn out is about 20%. Perhaps with such a low turn out we just should dispense with them - it shows nobody likes them.

quote:

even better, if all MP's and MEP's are a waste of space you could run for office and do something about it. I mean after, all you could leave your current job, grab an easier one where no-one does anything and get handsomely paid for it....

No thanks - it is easy to indulge in criminal activities, but I don't want to do that either. If I don't see the good of something then why would I want to join and perpetuate it. Do you really think so lowly of me that you think I'd make an MP, I'm not so bad honestly and not a liar or hypocrite - at least I try my best not to be

I've been called many things in my life, but being called a potential MP or MEP is the most hurtful of all .... and to think I've always said good things about you.

Besides when Alice Cooper ran on a manifesto, similar to my own, he didn't poll sufficient votes

And if I am elected
I promise the formation of a new party
A third party, the Wild Party!
I know we have problems,
We got problems right here in Central City,
We have problems on the North, South, East and West,
New York City, Saint Louis, Philadelphia, Los Angeles,
Detroit, Chicago,
Everybody has problems,
And personally, I don't care.

Jim - you wouldn't vote for me - I'm far to radical in my ideas (I believe in Sunday closing and not having newspapers on Good Friday and not waging war on countries in the middle-east or exploiting workers in third world economies).

Moreover, I'm not sufficiently articulate to express my views and so I'll leave it to the aforementioned Mr Cooper to sing out my main problem with such an idea please click here.

ATB Rotf

ROTF

quote:

Plus unlimited expenses and free this that and the other

Not exactly a true statement is it....

Firstly, MEP's salary is taxable at the national rate for the country they represent. Expenses are not unlimited and are on a par with industry in mnay areas. They do however need better controls and they will be in place from 2009 for many of these areas.

General Expenditure Allowance: This is currently €4052 (£2,896) per month and is used to pay for such things as office rent, rates and running costs (postage, phone and internet bills, equipment rental costs etc); capital costs such as computer equipment, and helps pay for a Member’s travel within their constituency. The allowance is halved if a member fails to attend at least 50% of the Strasbourg plenary sessions without having permission from Parliament’s authorities, in case of illness for example. This is subject to "abuse" - no doubt.

Secretarial Allowance

The maximum payment at present is €16,914 (£12,000) per month. This should be spent on “human resources”, people to assist Members in their work. This can cover staff employed on a long-term (the 5 years that a Parliament lasts) or temporary basis and also covers other possibilities such as consultancy and research. It covers all the related costs such as national insurance, tax, pension, training and staff expenses should we ask them to travel to Strasbourg, for example.

Personal Travel Allowance

Each member has a personal travel allowance of €4000 (£3049) a year to enable them to accept invitations outside their usual places of work or make their own fact-finding journeys outside their own Member State. They can claim the real-costs by presenting the appropriate proofs and invitation if relevant.

Travel Allowance

This is a lump-sum payment for journeys to and from (usually) their home to Parliament which is made up of: the cost of an economy-class flexible ticket for air travel or flexible ticket for train travel, plus a distance allowance. They must present evidence of travel (boarding pass or train ticket) or sign a declaration for car travel. Sometimes there is a difference between the payment and the real cost and the Member may keep this.

Daily Attendance Allowance

For any day that they attend an official Parliament meeting or are present at an EU institution (Luxembourg, Brussels or Strasbourg) during an official working day for work purposes, they are paid an attendance allowance of €235 (£180) This should cover all expenses such as hotel rooms and/or flat rental, meals, taxi fares etc. No receipts are required as this is a lump-sum payment, made if they sign the official register or the attendance list at the official meeting. During official plenaries of the Parliament, the amount is halved if a Member is not present for 50% of the roll-call votes.

So they get paid a "per diem" for accommodation (pretty standard), allowances for secretarial staff, travel expenses - all perfectly normal.

Source : www.jeanlambert.org.uk/mep_pay.php

quote:

No thanks - it is easy to indulge in criminal activities, but I don't want to do that either. If I don't see the good of something then why would I want to join and perpetuate it. Do you really think so lowly of me that you think I'd make an MP, I'm not so bad honestly and not a liar or hypocrite - at least I try my best not to be

No stereotyping or broadbrush generalizations there is there...

quote:

I've been called many things in my life, but being called a potential MP or MEP is the most hurtful of all .... and to think I've always said good things about you.

Gulp - what have I done?

My response wasn't aimed at anyone in particular but this thread is littered with sniping and snide remarks about MP's and MEP's, nonsensical comments about having them sleep in army barracks, being too busy to listen to music, expected to work 16 hours/day...etc. yet no-one came up with a good alternative.

You (ROTF) have said you wouldn't make a good MEP or MP, OK fair enough, then find out more about what your MEP's do, find out who the candidates are and vote for the one who most mirrors your philosophical ideals....stop moaning and do something about it.

Good God, I sound like a watered down Mick Parry, except I would vote for the wrong party.

I'm always up for a good political argument and from time to time I even have some basic facts that support my biases/PoV!

Cheers

Jim