Is it something I said?

Hi TNJB:

Could you repost your query? Maybe we can get some of these old buggers to help out.

Best Regards,
Mark Dunn

Bill,

you should have responded to Jun's question to keep your thread alive.

Here it is:

posted WEDNESDAY 20 November 2002 03:51  
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Query
I am interested in upgrading the NAC62, a NAP140 and SNAPS combo that I have. Can my SNAPS be used with the newer pre-amps? Does the chronological (date) order of Naim equipment releases automatically mean each newer unit is better than the previous? Is there anywhere that someone can find the original (and used?) prices for older Naim equipment? Are there any particular models that should be avoided? Would it make sense to get my current equipment re-capped rather than buying newer models? Please advise.
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response # 1
Jun Keller
Member posted SATURDAY 23 November 2002 22:24  
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rest of your system?
Let us know the rest of your system! CDP? Speakers?

- Jun


P.S.: I can't comment on the other questions, sorry...
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response #2
Steve T
Member posted SUNDAY 24 November 2002 02:12  
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I believe the SNAPs would need to be dual-railed to work with later pres. Do you know if this is the case? try a search of the forum as there is a fair amount of info from the earlier days about dual-railing.

I think the consensus is that the hierarchy is pretty well maintained across product generations. In your case, I don't think a NAC92 would be an improvement over a 62 but any of 72, 112, 102, 82 would be (in that order of performance level). Also swapping the SNAPs for a Hicap might be beneficial.

Servicing is always a good idea if your gear is more than 10 years old.

I've never found anywhere that has old list prices on it. There are some prices here but I think they are a little on the high side

Don't lose heart, keep posting questons and keep talking to the forum members. There will always be times and questions that get few responses. Just don't take it personally.

The more you talk the more the members will get to know you and your system and the more replies you will get.

Regards

NB

Thanx to all that replied! I don't get as much time as I'd would like to log on to the site, but I will try to respond as quickly as possible. The rest of my system is as follows: Linn LP12 w/K9, ProAc Studio 2 speakers, Creek CAS 3140 tuner and Meridian 206B CD player. I'm still learning my way around the site, so please stay patient with me. I enjoyed the recommended components to stay away from comment!

When I started out, I was so happy to get my first reply from none other than Tony Lonorgan regarding my P25 turntable.

I remained unknown and insignificant with folks posting around me for ages.

Now I'm known and insignificant

People don't post round me any more, they stop to spit on me No, only kidding. If the Naim forum hadn't been so much fun, and I hadn't made so many like-minded friends, I wouldn't still be here.

I now hold the highly dubious accolade of having posted more times here than anyone else...

Just give it time.

Regards,

Steve.

It's just a pleasure to hear music as it was intended to be heard.

I knew I could count on you Vuk.

Regards,

Steve.

It's just a pleasure to hear music as it was intended to be heard.

Steve and Vuk

I reckon you two would really enjoy each others company over the dinner table.

Regards

Mick

quote:

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I reckon you two would really enjoy each others company over the dinner table.

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The banter would be nearly a good as over the 'net

Regards,

Steve.

It's just a pleasure to hear music as it was intended to be heard.

Hello to all! I appreciate all the banter here, but I'm going to take Nick S.'s advise to keep things simple and continue my quest for knowledge under my first post "Upgrade suggestions???" Thanx, TNJB

Now to answer poster's question:

You have 62/snaps/140. Great sistem.

The snaps will work with any Naim preamp except the 52 or 252. As originally built, it provides two separate regulated +24V rails which connect via 4 pin snaics. However, you can take those two rails and connect a 5-pin connector, and use the snaps just like a hicap or flatcap.

Here's your upgrade options:

62 to 72 or above: A 72 is cheap and will give you more detail, more air, much tighter sound. You should be able to upgrade for around $300. Or you could go into much more expensive options, all worth it, depending on budget.

Snaps to hicap: You can get $200 or so for the snaps, and an old style hicap for $550. The snaps is probably the biggest bargain of the used power supplies but the hicap is a big step in definition, bass, extension--but it is also slightly hard sounding.

140 to 250: Worth doing, but probably your last option because it will cost twice as much as the above options and is probably slightly less effective.

Black snaics: if you don't have these, they are a must, IMO.

Also, if you can replace the Akito with an Ittok that will be a huge upgrade. And the K9 has many detractors.

--Eric

It's nice to be back on topic. (Thanx, Eric.) I'll try to ask my questions in the order of your suggestions...

1) How does going to a 5-pin connector transform my SNAPS to a Hi-cap or Flat-cap? What is gained by this? (Obviously, I don't know what the design & functional differences are between the different PS's) Somehow this sounds like a much easier (and cheaper?) alternative to selling my SNAPS and finding/buying a used Hi-/Flat-cap. Will the SNAPS & 5-pin set-up still hook-up to the amp?

2) Does the "hard-sound" of a Hi-cap effect the sound to varying degrees depending upon what source and speakers are in the system? I imagine that the benefits to be had with a Hi-cap surely outweigh the "harder-sound" issue (?)

3) I think (?) this was part of my original inquiry... Does the chronological (date) order of Naim equipment releases necessarily mean each newer unit is better than the previous? E.g. - One of the other members remarked that any of the newer Pre-amps would be better than my 62, except the 92. What's up with the 92?

Also: Do all the newer Pre-amps have phono boards/sections available?

4) Lastly, I thought the 140 to 250 was the smartest "jump" (I don't know why... maybe I just thought that anything else in between wouldn't be a big enough change to be bothered with?) What's the difference between "old style" and "new style" versions? There seems to be favor for both, depending on who you talk to.

5) Black SNAICS: What's "IMO"?

Thanks again for all the help!

P.S. - I know that the arm & cartridge upgrades would be a great improvement, but I can't afford to do all of this at once. I thought that the PS/Pre-Amp/Amp route would be the better place to start because the complete system would benefit until I could afford to replace the rest. I haven't lost the "The source be with you, Luke!" mantra, it's just that I can't upgrade both Cd and LP sources at the same time as the electronics!

quote:

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Originally posted by thenaim'sjustbill:
1) How does going to a 5-pin connector transform my SNAPS to a Hi-cap or Flat-cap? What is gained by this?

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The 5 pin convertion (also know as "dual-railing") doesn't convert your SNAPS into a Hi or Flatcap but it does bring significant sonic advantages. Those that have compared consider that it raised the SNAPS's performance close to that of a flatcap.

In its standard configuration a SNAPS has a couple of 4-pin outputs, each having one power supply channel (or rail). A 5-pin DIN has 2 power supplies and the conversion (detailed elsewhere on the forum) is basically just to wire up both power rails to a single 5-pin socket, replacing one of the 4-pins. This is very easy to do with only a little bit of soldering required.

My system is similar to yours, 32.5/SNAPS/140, and dual-railing the SNAPS was easy and worthwhile.

BTW you'll sometimes see the converted SNAPS referred to as a SNAPS2.

IMO is web-talk for "In my opinion".

I've got black and grey SNAICS and while there is a sonic difference between them I haven't found it to be as significant as some people have commented.

Regards
Steve

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1) How does going to a 5-pin connector transform my SNAPS to a Hi-cap or Flat-cap?
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I said you could use it like a hi or flat--by which I mean supplying two power rails via a 5 pin snaic.

The 42-5, 62, 92, 32-5, and 72 (rank order of quality, btw) use one rail for the phono section and one for the line section. Since the phono boards dump some noise back into the power supply, separating the rails improves performance of the line stage. IMO this is an improvement but nothing earth-shattering.

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Will the SNAPS & 5-pin set-up still hook-up to the amp?
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Yes, 5 pin snaic to pre and 4 pin to amp.

2) Does the "hard-sound" of a Hi-cap effect the sound to varying degrees depending upon what source and speakers are in the system? I imagine that the benefits to be had with a Hi-cap surely outweigh the "harder-sound" issue (?)

Yes, but if the source isn't very good in the first place, the money would be better spent on a source. In hi-fi terms (detail, soundstage, bass tightness, treble extension) the hicap is much better than the snaps. In musical enjoyment terms (flow, tune) it is only better.

3) I think (?) this was part of my original inquiry... Does the chronological (date) order of Naim equipment releases necessarily mean each newer unit is better than the previous? E.g. - One of the other members remarked that any of the newer Pre-amps would be better than my 62, except the 92. What's up with the 92?

The 92 is a 62 in a full width slim line box. The numbering indicates the date development started, not the place in the line.

A 32-5 is a 32 that accepts a dual-rail power supply (hicap instead of snaps). A 72 is a 32-5 with a slight circuit change in the new box. A 102 is a 72 in a full width box with remote and better circuit layout. A 52 was the top of the line until the 552, and an 82 is the 'budget version'. A 42-5 is a 42 that accepts a hicap, a 62 is a 42-5 with an extra input and better switching.

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Also: Do all the newer Pre-amps have phono boards/sections available?
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The 102/82/52 do. The 112/202/282/252/552 do not.

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4) Lastly, I thought the 140 to 250 was the smartest "jump".
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Between power amps it is--but depending on speakers it's usually better to upgrade the pre and power supply first.

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What's the difference between "old style" and "new style" versions? There seems to be favor for both, depending on who you talk to.
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The 250 got an update in 1985 (better transformer). I think the new style came with a slightly updated circuit layout, and in the early 90s they changed suppliers for transformers. The rumor is that the older ones are sweeter, the newer ones tighter.

--Eri

Thanks for all the info., Eric.

I'm thinking of starting off with replacing my SNAPS with a Hi-cap. What year was the change from "old" to "new" style versions of the Hi-cap? (Was it 1985 like the 250?) Is there a significant difference between the two (old vs. new) version caps? Is an older, yet recently recapped unit a better buy than a newer unit that's not been re-capped yet? Lastly, can my old SNAPS be used for anything else in my system once it's replaced by a Hi-cap?

Please don't tell me a doorstop

Does it matter if I "mix" a new style cap with an old style amp/pre-amp set-up?