The new 'Dan' al***
Posted by: J.N. on 21 June 2003
Everything Must Go
I am a massive 'Dan' fan and have everything from 'Thrill' onwards.
Just received 'Everything Must Go'.
My reaction after the first playing is 'Lightweight jazz/funk crap'
Whadya reckon?
I am a massive 'Dan' fan and have everything from 'Thrill' onwards.
Just received 'Everything Must Go'.
My reaction after the first playing is 'Lightweight jazz/funk crap'
Whadya reckon?
Posted on: 21 June 2003 by Rich Cundill
Well its grown on me quicker than 2VN. I think the writing is well up to classic Dan standards - musically it has a touch of that sterile sameness that 2VN suffered from but then listen to Godwhacker or the title track for some killer grooves.
Will have to stick it on headphones now as the kids have gone to bed - darn!
Rich
Will have to stick it on headphones now as the kids have gone to bed - darn!
Rich
Posted on: 21 June 2003 by MichaelC
Got EMG earlier this week and it is similar to 2VN in as far as it is taking a number of listens for it to shine through. IMO it (and 2VN) is not as immediately accessible as their earlier work.
Regards
Mike
Regards
Mike
Posted on: 21 June 2003 by P
It started with Gaucho I reckon. The slide into the twilight zone. That Radio 2 "Sing Something Simple in a Mike Sammes style" continued through both Fagens solo efforts and into 2VN. There's none of that radio friendly unit shiftery stuff on 11Tracks of Whack though so I think we can see who (or what)'s driving the direction they've taken. Brilliant as it was/is Beckers subversive solo album didn't sell. SO?
The new one has its moments but to be honest I'm growing bored of it all already. The lead guitar work is far too laid back and restrained. Aimless noodling almost at times. Like they were bored. It just doesn't take off like on the old stuff. Gimmee Larry Carlton, Derringer, Randall or Dias any old day.
In fairness I suppose EMG does have the odd moment of grin inducing brilliance in other areas (nice Sax!) and I suppose the fact that they're still working and making albums at all should be counted as a blessing but personally I'm off to listen to that solo on Bodhisattva again. Nostalgia wallowing old fart that I am.
P
The new one has its moments but to be honest I'm growing bored of it all already. The lead guitar work is far too laid back and restrained. Aimless noodling almost at times. Like they were bored. It just doesn't take off like on the old stuff. Gimmee Larry Carlton, Derringer, Randall or Dias any old day.
In fairness I suppose EMG does have the odd moment of grin inducing brilliance in other areas (nice Sax!) and I suppose the fact that they're still working and making albums at all should be counted as a blessing but personally I'm off to listen to that solo on Bodhisattva again. Nostalgia wallowing old fart that I am.
P
Posted on: 22 June 2003 by Minky
More or less what I said on an earlier thread. The lead work on those earlier albums still takes my breath away with it's sheer creativity. Becker plays ok extended blues but compared with Becker trotting out his "beef stew" on 2VN, Dias was like a chess grandmaster - he seemed to be able to think 5 changes ahead.
The new Dan hits the shops in NZ next week. I guess if I don't expect much I won't be disappointed.
The new Dan hits the shops in NZ next week. I guess if I don't expect much I won't be disappointed.
Posted on: 22 June 2003 by P
Planned?
You might be right Nick although this "Faux Luxe" stuff has gone on just a bit too much for liking now I reckon.
Mentioning an Audi TT is a bit of a low point lyrically for them as well IMO. Whatever happened to the likes of the steam-powered thing with the Balinese Tech? I mean I “want” esoteric! I “want” arcane! I “want” perfectly oblique and impenetrable nonsense! Not "reality". Reality Sucks. Ooops I’m ranting. Vowed I wouldn’t do that again online. Apologies.
P
BTW I think you'll find that Denny Dias was as much the genius behind the first 4 albums as B&F Nichols and Katz.
TT
You might be right Nick although this "Faux Luxe" stuff has gone on just a bit too much for liking now I reckon.
Mentioning an Audi TT is a bit of a low point lyrically for them as well IMO. Whatever happened to the likes of the steam-powered thing with the Balinese Tech? I mean I “want” esoteric! I “want” arcane! I “want” perfectly oblique and impenetrable nonsense! Not "reality". Reality Sucks. Ooops I’m ranting. Vowed I wouldn’t do that again online. Apologies.
P
BTW I think you'll find that Denny Dias was as much the genius behind the first 4 albums as B&F Nichols and Katz.
TT
Posted on: 23 June 2003 by Minky
quote:
Originally posted by Nick Lees:
For all the rip-snorting fireworks on the early albums, it was always said that those solos were dictated by Fagen pretty much note-for-note.
Nick, can you elaborate ? Of course the intros are highly structured but I have always felt that the solos were pure improvisation. I thought that the reason that F&B used so many guitarists on each album was to give them a bigger pool of styles to tap into.
Posted on: 23 June 2003 by Minky
quote:
Originally posted by Nick Lees:quote:
Originally posted by Minky:
Nick, can you elaborate ? Of course the intros are highly structured but I have always felt that the solos were pure improvisation. I thought that the reason that F&B used so many guitarists on each album was to give them a bigger pool of styles to tap into.
Crikey, now you're asking. From what I can recall, when Jeff "Skunk" Baxter joined The Doobie Brothers I read an interview with him in which he was looking forward to playing his own solos and not those dictated by B&F.
I think his work on those mid-period Doobie Brothers albums ("Stampede", "Takin' It To The Streets", "Livin' On The Fault Line", and "Minute By Minute") shows where his inspiration came from - there's nothing on those IMO that comes anywhere close to his solos on the 1st two Dan albums.
nick.lees at btinternet.com
Funny you should mention that. I was listening to Jimmy Webb singing his version of his song "Galveston" the other day and noticed that Michael Mcdonald was on backup vocals and it occured to me that I hadn't listened to the Doobie brothers for years. Good point about Baxter. His solo on, for example, "depending on you" is OK but has little of the spice of his Dan work.
Dias has always fascinated me. All I know about him is that he was awe inspiring and now he is dead. Other than that he was just this fat guy in Dungarees on the album covers. I don't want to think that his solos were scripted.
Posted on: 23 June 2003 by P
IIRC Most of Baxters work was pretty much given direction by B&F and Dias because he didn't really have the same jazz leanings as the "crucial three". All of Dias' work was pretty much his own as was Elliot Randalls. Take the main solo from Reelin in the Years. It was done in 2 takes with no edits or punch ins. Just pure class. They almost fell over backwards in the studio when he nailed that one!
Jimmy Page describes it as his favourite guitar solo of all time and I'd certainly agree.
Also Larry Carlton became the main guitar chartman from Katy and Scam onwards. Dias more or less quit during AJA - to become a Software Engineer of all things!! What a waste.
Let's not forget Dean Parks' contributions either.
Man. I really miss those quality days.
P
Jimmy Page describes it as his favourite guitar solo of all time and I'd certainly agree.
Also Larry Carlton became the main guitar chartman from Katy and Scam onwards. Dias more or less quit during AJA - to become a Software Engineer of all things!! What a waste.
Let's not forget Dean Parks' contributions either.
Man. I really miss those quality days.
P
Posted on: 23 June 2003 by Pete
No, it's not the desert island Dan album, but that's hardly a damning verdict. One of the very few bands with a long track record that have not only never made a duff album, but not even a duff individual cut.
First listen I had as okay but not great, 3 and a wee bit stars, but now it's got up to 4 stars and is still in heavy rotation. I've been listening to 2vN quite a bit more too, and already like that more than I did a couple of weeks ago.
Hauled out The Nightfly last night. Damn, it's good.
Pete.
[This message was edited by Pete on MONDAY 23 June 2003 at 12:38.]
First listen I had as okay but not great, 3 and a wee bit stars, but now it's got up to 4 stars and is still in heavy rotation. I've been listening to 2vN quite a bit more too, and already like that more than I did a couple of weeks ago.
Hauled out The Nightfly last night. Damn, it's good.
Pete.
[This message was edited by Pete on MONDAY 23 June 2003 at 12:38.]
Posted on: 25 June 2003 by Simon Matthews
I'm sorry you guys are not getting hooked by this album. I think it has bags of what I always felt the Dan did best.
Oh well, I suppose it would be a boring world if we all agreed all of the time.
Oh well, I suppose it would be a boring world if we all agreed all of the time.
Posted on: 25 June 2003 by Pete
quote:
Originally posted by Simon Matthews:
I think it has bags of what I always felt the Dan did best.
Superbly crafted songs, with a good dose of acidic irony in the lyrics, inpeccably laid down. Yup, does all those nicely.
As for "lightweight jazz/funk", where's the funk? The only time the Dan have ever really got funky was on The Royal Scam, and the lightweight jazz side is just overtones informing the music, as has always been the case from Can't Buy A Thrill and on. By all means don't like it, but at least don't like it for what it is rather than what it isn't!
Pete.
Posted on: 25 June 2003 by Simon Matthews
Pete
Total agreement. This review on dotmusic hits it on the head also.
"When they reach a certain age, it seems as if American authors are duty-bound to take a shot at the Great American Novel. A wise, satirical, incisive, covertly passionate examination of how their nation works, where it's going, why it may be falling apart. Most of the time, though, their ambition defeats the vision, their magnum opuses hamstrung by the terrible obligation to be a magnum opus.
If only they could measure the iniquities of America with such grace and precision as Steely Dan. 'Everything Must Go' offers most of what we want from a intelligent doorstop, with the bonus of some spectacularly good music. It's a record to get lost in, one that constantly surprises with its apparently infinite number of hidden harmonies and wry asides. Like the best books, it improves with each study. And unlike, say, DeLillo's 'Underworld', it only takes 42 minutes to get through.
Donald Fagen and Walter Becker's ninth album together, 'Everything Must Go' is something of a rush-job by Steely Dan standards, having taken only a measly year to record. Not that you can tell, of course. This is breathtakingly elaborate music, a scientific experiment in examining every possibility of the perfect groove, then making the whole process sound effortless. As ever with Steely Dan, it's not the sort of thing, post-punk, we're meant to admire: those jazz moves translated into silky adult rock; the way the session musicians and the battalions of engineers ensure every last sound on 'Everything Must Go' is quite, quite flawless.
But this is what Steely Dan do - subvert our ideas about music, and America, and the ridiculous anxieties of the male menopause. Yes it's hard to explain, in a world where the rawness of The White Stripes or the futurism of The Aphex Twin are so justifiably eulogised, quite why the systematic whiteboy funk of 'Blues Beach' is quite so seductive. Essentially, Steely Dan 'swing', and sound more aspirationally luxurious than even Jay-Z could ever imagine, but then undercut every pristine riff with the blackest lyrical ironies.
So 'Things I Miss The Most' sees Fagen brilliantly playing the divorcé who can't quite decide what is the greatest loss - love, sex, or the Audi TT. And so 'Slang Of Ages' finds Becker - in his first lead vocal for the Dan - as a middle-aged creep trying to pull a young girl, juxtaposing the hipster argot of his youth with increasingly excruciating attempts to speak her language. The moment when he drawls, "These tabs look iffy, you say they're good? Let's roll with the homies and knock on wood," ranks as one the most perceptively embarrassing moments in recent rock history - Roth or Updike, you feel, would be proud.
We could go on for hours, days maybe. About how 'The Last Mall' and the title track wryly present American corporate excess as initiating, then struggling to cope with, the prospect of Armageddon. About how loss - of youth, love, property, dignity, security and, potentially, life - pervades most everything here. About how the stunning liquid tunes surpass 2000's reunion disc 'Two Against Nature', recall Fagen's brilliant solo debut from 1982, 'The Nightfly', and are frequently a match for Steely Dan's revered '70s heyday. For here are a band uncommonly suited to the cynicism, awkward passions and elevated tastes of middle-age. And like the best writers who are their true peers, it's hard to imagine Becker and Fagen doing anything but improve with age.
John Mulvey"
Total agreement. This review on dotmusic hits it on the head also.
"When they reach a certain age, it seems as if American authors are duty-bound to take a shot at the Great American Novel. A wise, satirical, incisive, covertly passionate examination of how their nation works, where it's going, why it may be falling apart. Most of the time, though, their ambition defeats the vision, their magnum opuses hamstrung by the terrible obligation to be a magnum opus.
If only they could measure the iniquities of America with such grace and precision as Steely Dan. 'Everything Must Go' offers most of what we want from a intelligent doorstop, with the bonus of some spectacularly good music. It's a record to get lost in, one that constantly surprises with its apparently infinite number of hidden harmonies and wry asides. Like the best books, it improves with each study. And unlike, say, DeLillo's 'Underworld', it only takes 42 minutes to get through.
Donald Fagen and Walter Becker's ninth album together, 'Everything Must Go' is something of a rush-job by Steely Dan standards, having taken only a measly year to record. Not that you can tell, of course. This is breathtakingly elaborate music, a scientific experiment in examining every possibility of the perfect groove, then making the whole process sound effortless. As ever with Steely Dan, it's not the sort of thing, post-punk, we're meant to admire: those jazz moves translated into silky adult rock; the way the session musicians and the battalions of engineers ensure every last sound on 'Everything Must Go' is quite, quite flawless.
But this is what Steely Dan do - subvert our ideas about music, and America, and the ridiculous anxieties of the male menopause. Yes it's hard to explain, in a world where the rawness of The White Stripes or the futurism of The Aphex Twin are so justifiably eulogised, quite why the systematic whiteboy funk of 'Blues Beach' is quite so seductive. Essentially, Steely Dan 'swing', and sound more aspirationally luxurious than even Jay-Z could ever imagine, but then undercut every pristine riff with the blackest lyrical ironies.
So 'Things I Miss The Most' sees Fagen brilliantly playing the divorcé who can't quite decide what is the greatest loss - love, sex, or the Audi TT. And so 'Slang Of Ages' finds Becker - in his first lead vocal for the Dan - as a middle-aged creep trying to pull a young girl, juxtaposing the hipster argot of his youth with increasingly excruciating attempts to speak her language. The moment when he drawls, "These tabs look iffy, you say they're good? Let's roll with the homies and knock on wood," ranks as one the most perceptively embarrassing moments in recent rock history - Roth or Updike, you feel, would be proud.
We could go on for hours, days maybe. About how 'The Last Mall' and the title track wryly present American corporate excess as initiating, then struggling to cope with, the prospect of Armageddon. About how loss - of youth, love, property, dignity, security and, potentially, life - pervades most everything here. About how the stunning liquid tunes surpass 2000's reunion disc 'Two Against Nature', recall Fagen's brilliant solo debut from 1982, 'The Nightfly', and are frequently a match for Steely Dan's revered '70s heyday. For here are a band uncommonly suited to the cynicism, awkward passions and elevated tastes of middle-age. And like the best writers who are their true peers, it's hard to imagine Becker and Fagen doing anything but improve with age.
John Mulvey"
Posted on: 25 June 2003 by Minky
Good review. If you really want to hear another example of the Updike/Roth American dream encapsulated in song lyrics have a listen to Randy Newman's "Bad love".
I borrowed a demo copy of the new Dan yesterday (it hasn't been released in NZ yet). Have listened to it twice. Liked it a lot more that I thought I would after the first listen. That may not be a good thing. Great lyrics, good tunes, better guitar work than TAN. I like Becker's bass playing. Good drummer too (who his Keith Carlock ?). It feels more like one of Fagans solo albums than anything pre Gaucho and more rooted in blues than jazz.
I'm just off to take it back to the shop. Darn.
[This message was edited by Minky on WEDNESDAY 25 June 2003 at 23:13.]
I borrowed a demo copy of the new Dan yesterday (it hasn't been released in NZ yet). Have listened to it twice. Liked it a lot more that I thought I would after the first listen. That may not be a good thing. Great lyrics, good tunes, better guitar work than TAN. I like Becker's bass playing. Good drummer too (who his Keith Carlock ?). It feels more like one of Fagans solo albums than anything pre Gaucho and more rooted in blues than jazz.
I'm just off to take it back to the shop. Darn.
[This message was edited by Minky on WEDNESDAY 25 June 2003 at 23:13.]
Posted on: 21 September 2003 by Geoff P
There has been a lot of talk here using words like "bland", "every note planned" and so on.
Dan has of late rapidly issued it's albums in surround formats.
I have Gaucho and 2VN in DTS 5.1 and Nightfly in DVD-A. EMG came straight out in DVD-A aswell, in the USA where I picked them all up.
Now I know this is raising hackles already and that's OK because you either listen and like surrond music or you hate it, but the point is coming.
All the above mentioned albums have been translated to what I would call "the best I have heard in surround music formats", in the main because Fagen supervised the transfers himself. Howver it occurs to me that some of the changes in the music of "Dan" maybe due to an intentional restructuring of their music to fit the surround format which is "lost" when heard in stereo.
I am not saying the stereo is bad.I have listened to 24/192 stereo version of EMG available on the DVD-A and it is execellent but does not come across as spiritedly as the 5.1 mix.
Anway it's an opinion I have.
regards
GEOFFP
Dan has of late rapidly issued it's albums in surround formats.
I have Gaucho and 2VN in DTS 5.1 and Nightfly in DVD-A. EMG came straight out in DVD-A aswell, in the USA where I picked them all up.
Now I know this is raising hackles already and that's OK because you either listen and like surrond music or you hate it, but the point is coming.
All the above mentioned albums have been translated to what I would call "the best I have heard in surround music formats", in the main because Fagen supervised the transfers himself. Howver it occurs to me that some of the changes in the music of "Dan" maybe due to an intentional restructuring of their music to fit the surround format which is "lost" when heard in stereo.
I am not saying the stereo is bad.I have listened to 24/192 stereo version of EMG available on the DVD-A and it is execellent but does not come across as spiritedly as the 5.1 mix.
Anway it's an opinion I have.
regards
GEOFFP
Posted on: 21 September 2003 by P
Can You Hear us Pumping on your Stereo Oh-Oh...
How strange. I just listened to it again this very morning in the car. Still love that title track - sounded great at full bore doing the ton on the M11...
Interesting that another bottom burp surfaced though I flatly (flatulenty?) refuse to spend the rest of my days checking out all of their earlier stuff for more Petomaine moments......
P
How strange. I just listened to it again this very morning in the car. Still love that title track - sounded great at full bore doing the ton on the M11...
Interesting that another bottom burp surfaced though I flatly (flatulenty?) refuse to spend the rest of my days checking out all of their earlier stuff for more Petomaine moments......
P