Advice on digital system please.

Posted by: badlyread on 21 October 2009

Hi all

I would greatly appreciate your input on the best path to take regarding improving my current system.

System: iMac (wireless) > SB3 > CA Dacmagic 2 > Nait 2 > Neat Motive 2. Also have a Sony CDP 337esd (known as the 'tank').

Love the Squeezebox system (2 Booms and a Radio as well). Most of my listening is casual - radio and library (work, always work to do), but I do enjoy an interrupted evening when I can.

Don't like the idea of the Mac being on for music playback all the time (SB Server) and want to try a separate server if possible. Like iTunes.

Here are my ideas (with limited knowledge):

1. Transporter and lose SB3 and DAC. Can I hook up to another HD directly after ripping through the Mac or will it still need to go via Mac?

2. Touch And lose SB3. Just rip to a HD (via the Touch?) and replay via USB on the Touch.

3. Mac Mini via DAC or direct (is a separate dac needed?) to Nait. How do I view what is on the HD? Can I wirelessly see via the iMac? I don't want another display. And would I be able to operate via my iPod Touch?

I hope this makes sense and please point out gaps in my understanding. I really want to understand what is required.

In anticipation and kind regards,

Neil
Posted on: 21 October 2009 by DHT
imho potentially the best sound is option number 3, mac mini firewie to dac and control everything with ipod.
Posted on: 21 October 2009 by js
No firewire available for him on any player or DAC. All options are viable but your decision should be based on long term goals. If I planned on a future DAC upgrade, I'd probably try the touch as it supposedly has some attention paid to the dig out and has a usb input to play a local drive.
Posted on: 21 October 2009 by DHT
mac mini has firewire JS.
Posted on: 21 October 2009 by pcstockton
....and surely USB as well.
Posted on: 21 October 2009 by pcstockton
quote:
Originally posted by DHT:
mac mini has firewire JS.


I think JS's point was that there aren't any known DACs available with a Firewire input. Therefore, if taken literally, your suggestion "mac mini firewie to dac and control everything with ipod" is lacking a necessary piece of the puzzle. That being some kind of Firewire-to-Spdif converter.

-patrick
Posted on: 21 October 2009 by Peter Dinh
quote:
Originally posted by pcstockton:
I think JS's point was that there aren't any known DACs available with a Firewire input...

Wrong! There are lots of DACs with firewire interface. Weiss DAC2 is one example.
Posted on: 21 October 2009 by likesmusic
It might be worth you looking at a HD server, such as the QNAP range, that allows you to run Squeezecenter on it, thereby getting your Mac out the system. They start at about £250 - same kind of money as a Touch. It's hard to know whether the Touch would give you an improvement on the SB3 - the Dacmagic claims to be fairly tolerant of jitter. A Transporter should give you a big improvement, but you won't know till you listen. You can control your current SB3, a Touch or a Transporter from an iPhone/iTouch by using the iPeng app - a very good £5s worth. At least one UK distributor for QNAP and Logitech will give you a Transporter on sale or return, so you could make up your own mind. OTOH, a Transporter is a sizeable proportion of the cost of the new NAIM DAC which should (hopefully) be better again, though alas it can't be streamed directly to. If it was me, I'd wait till the NAIM DAC hit real users and see whether it was worth saving up for, and what the computer/streamer source options were.
Posted on: 21 October 2009 by js
quote:
Originally posted by DHT:
mac mini has firewire JS.
Yes, but nothing else he's mentoined does. Takes 2 to tango.
PC, the DAC DHT uses does have that input.
Posted on: 21 October 2009 by badlyread
Thanks for the replies.

More questions.

Mac Mini: This will be displayless. When I rip to iTunes will I need to connect to my iMac or will I be able to 'see' what is happening via my iPod Touch? I can connect this to a Squeezebox via ethernet cable or USB (Touch) and then go via DAC?

QNAP Server: Can I connect a QNAP Server direct to the Transporter/ Squeezebox? No iTunes? Own software? Squeezecenter is good.

Naim DAC : this will be very good I'm sure but £££££ and I want to try and keep it simple.

I have iPeng.

likesmusic - please email me (in profile).

Many thanks all and further comments appreciated.

Neil
Posted on: 21 October 2009 by james n
Neil - the Mini can run headless. You can VNC in from other machines to take a look at it if needed and control with the iPod touch. Mine is set up to auto rip so i just pop in a CD and then it rips it and spits it out - no need for any screens. You can then connect the mini straight to a DAC via a toslink, USB or (if the DAC supports - Firewire). It's a nice neat solution.

James
Posted on: 22 October 2009 by likesmusic
quote:
Originally posted by badlyread:
likesmusic - please email me (in profile).

Neil


maybe i'm thick, but i can't see a mail option!

(ripcaster is possibly the answer you're looking for, prefixed by www and appended by the usual for a uk company)
Posted on: 22 October 2009 by Alco
quote:
2. Touch And lose SB3. Just rip to a HD (via the Touch?) and replay via USB on the Touch.

Do you mean to say that it's possible to play music from HD, directly from HD into the SB Touch ?
(without the need for a PC/Mac)
Posted on: 22 October 2009 by likesmusic
quote:
Originally posted by Alco:
Do you mean to say that it's possible to play music from HD, directly from HD into the SB Touch ?
(without the need for a PC/Mac)


Yes. According to the spec on the logitech website it has a "USB host connector for accessing music and photos via USB drive or USB key".

P.S. And other clever things too .. I just noticed there's an infra-red proximity detector to wake it up as you get close!
Posted on: 22 October 2009 by Eloise
quote:
Originally posted by likesmusic:
quote:
Originally posted by Alco:
Do you mean to say that it's possible to play music from HD, directly from HD into the SB Touch ?
(without the need for a PC/Mac)


Yes. According to the spec on the logitech website it has a "USB host connector for accessing music and photos via USB drive or USB key".

P.S. And other clever things too .. I just noticed there's an infra-red proximity detector to wake it up as you get close!

Be interesting to see if the Logitech Touch has the same interface when accessing a local HD, or if it's more basic and therefore only really suitable for a small number of files on a memory stick (in the way most DVD/BluRay players with this function are).

Eloise

PS. back to OP question ... my suggestion would be to go for the MacMini + DAC option. Though it depends on your ultimate goal and your budget.
Posted on: 22 October 2009 by likesmusic
re the Squeezebox Touch .. if you google "computer audio asylum squeezebox touch announced" you should get an interesting post, discussing it's digital outputs and USB capabilities, by John Swenson who is a beta-tester for it
Posted on: 22 October 2009 by winkyincanada
quote:
Originally posted by badlyread:

3. Mac Mini via DAC or direct (is a separate dac needed?) to Nait. How do I view what is on the HD? Can I wirelessly see via the iMac? I don't want another display. And would I be able to operate via my iPod Touch?




No, strictly speaking you not NEED a separate DAC as could take the analogue output from the Mini straight to your Nait. The DAC in the Mini is not going to be anything flash, though.

You can definitely control the Mini from your iMac. The screen sharing function built into the OS is very easy to set up and to use.

The touch with Apple's "remote" app works great for playing back music on iTunes. It won't allow you to change settings or control rips, though. You would need to use the iMac screen sharing to set that up, but once initially set-up it should be as easy as sticking the CD into the Mini, it will then rip and eject automatically. You shouldn't have to use the iMac unless you want to change a setting.

Winky
Posted on: 22 October 2009 by badlyread
Thank you all for your input.

I am leaning towards the Mac Mini route at the present. Currently my digital music is ripped to iTunes but not Lossless due to the amount of HD space this would require (also have had drop out due to size of data when tried). This would enable me to have a headless Mini just loaded with Lossless CDs going direct to to my DAC (what cable from the Mini > Dacmagic?). The SB3 would then be used to access internet radio only but the Booms and Radio around the house would access the Mini for wireless music playback. So the iMac would be completely out of the loop!

The other good thing is with the release of the new Mac Mini I can get an old one cheaper.

Winky is there any reason you can think of that a base 2Ghz machine will not suffice? Will only be used for ripping. I could then get the 320Gb model. (how many CDs in Apple lossless is that?).

Having said that the QNAP route needs further investigation. Is anyone using this?

Many thanks again

Neil
Posted on: 22 October 2009 by winkyincanada
The 2Ghz machine will be fine. 320GB should hold around 900 - 1000 Cds in lossless, I think, given that you don't plan to have too much other stuff on there. I have filled my 160GB iPod with around 500 CDs in lossless, to give you a guide.

It is also very cheap to add an extra USB drive for more capacity. You would want to make sure you get a quiet one, though. My Mini is essentially noiseless.
Posted on: 24 October 2009 by badlyread
OK. Got the Mac Mini Winky. Without a Display how do I get to set it up? Or do I need a display initially? (Not seeing it on the iMac).

Many thanks

Neil
Posted on: 24 October 2009 by winkyincanada
Use a TV, or borrow a monitor. It will need its own screen for initial setup so you can turn the screen sharing on in the first place.

Good luck with it. The link below should be useful..

Screen Sharing Tutorial
Posted on: 26 October 2009 by badlyread
Sorted it out via Firewire (a little trial and error) but the Mini is now ripping the first CD - Thomas Dolby - The Flat Earth (remaster). Just waiting for the arrival of the Van Den Hul optical so I can hear it now.

The Screen Sharing option is fantastic and easy to use. Now just have to transfer all the Squeezebox setting over and the iMac will be completely out of the loop. Oh, and rip the 600 CDs!

Thank you for all the help.

Regards

Neil
Posted on: 27 October 2009 by badlyread
Ok. Day 2 of ripping the CDs to the Mac Mini using Apple Lossless. I'm trying to do this while getting some work done but the environment is not particularly good for that as the girls are refusing to go out!

What I have noticed is the big difference in rip times. Some CDs rip at 18X while others (usually older CDs) are as slow as 4X. Any reasons for this?

I must say the whole process has been fairly painless: the set up (screen sharing) and the Mac Mini has done everything that I have asked of it to date. The ripping is so boring however (teach me not to do Lossless in the first place!).

Oh, the Van Den Hul Optocoupler arrived today as well (ordered on Sunday). So with a little luck I will have some quiet time tonight to have my first serious listen at the new set up. Will report tomorrow.

Regards

Neil
Posted on: 27 October 2009 by winkyincanada
My experience is also that there are indeed "difficult" and "easy" CDs. Never really been able to say I notice a pattern or can spot a reason, though. It would be tempting to say scratched or scuffed CDs are slower, but all mine are in good condition. Copy protection perhaps?

Note that I rip with the error correction turned on. This slows the rips down overall.