PC Media Software to use with Naim DAC?

Personally, I use xbmc, but then I have a dedicated PC sat under the TV which also streams all my video media too.

The key thing will be to ensure bit perfect output. Mediamonkey and foobar seem popular though and you can get them (with a little bit of persuasion) to output bit perfect.

The trick is not to use your Windows default soundcard as a source. So if you only have one soundcard and you use it's digital out to nDAC, first disable it in Windows, then install ASIO4ALL drivers, then choose ASIO4ALL as the output device in your software - I use JRiver Media Jukebox 12, it's great. If you've done it right, you'll hear music but the volume control in Windows or in your media player will have absolutely no effect.

Another vote for JRiver,
I use JRiver v15 in Wasapi exclusive mode under Windows 7, bit perfect output, bang of features and excellent interface. Check out in the computeraudiophile site the guide for proper setup.

cicsmediaplayer.

The user interface is %^*#$ but the sound is IMO so much better than J River.

-
aleg

Thanks for the tip Mward2205. I was planning to have a dedicated laptop for music and use it with an M-Transit Audio USB device to provide digital output. Would it be best to disable the laptop's onboard soundcard in the BIOS?

Is there any difference between Media Jukebox and Media Centre from J.River?

quote:

Originally posted by Doctor Jazz:
Is there any difference between Media Jukebox and Media Centre from J.River?

If you mean in terms of sound quality, I don't think Jukebox version has neither memory playback nor other recent features such as kernel streaming but I can be wrong, anyway you can check it for your own since there is a trial period.

quote:

Originally posted by Aleg:
cicsmediaplayer.

The user interface is %^*#$ but the sound is IMO so much better than J River.

-
aleg

The User interface is so %^*#$ that I still haven't tried it,
interesting you found it much better than JRiver, did you make at the same time some cmp2 tweakery or you just changed the player?

quote:

Originally posted by goldfinch:

quote:

Originally posted by Aleg:
cicsmediaplayer.

The user interface is %^*#$ but the sound is IMO so much better than J River.

-
aleg

The User interface is so %^*#$ that I still haven't tried it,
interesting you found it much better than JRiver, did you make at the same time some cmp2 tweakery or you just changed the player?

Hi Aleg -

Also very interested in the details of what you are hearing.

Am using JRMC 14 on a fan-less, sdd-based PC running Windows 7 and exclusive mode WASAPI. My RME 9632 audio card supports all the right sample rates, and feeds the DAC via a DSub9-to-BNC connection. So far, I really like what I am hearing!

Am getting better sound than with my previous setup: Vista laptop, Mediamonkey 3.2/ASIO, Furutech USB, M-Audio Transit and Optichord. Used ASIO because WASAPI support was 3rd-party, and not very stable in this environment. MM 4.0 is supposed to fix this, but has been a long time coming, and still no target date in sight.

Always willing to try new computer stuff, but like Goldfinch says, the JRMC user interface is simplicity itself, and it has been an extremely stable environment for me. Would be really hard to give that up unless the sound improvement is dramatic!

Hook

quote:

Originally posted by ghook2020:

quote:

Originally posted by goldfinch:

quote:

Originally posted by Aleg:
cicsmediaplayer.

The user interface is %^*#$ but the sound is IMO so much better than J River.

-
aleg

The User interface is so %^*#$ that I still haven't tried it,
interesting you found it much better than JRiver, did you make at the same time some cmp2 tweakery or you just changed the player?

Hi Aleg -

Also very interested in the details of what you are hearing.

Am using JRMC 14 on a fan-less, sdd-based PC running Windows 7 and exclusive mode WASAPI. My RME 9632 audio card supports all the right sample rates, and feeds the DAC via a DSub9-to-BNC connection. So far, I really like what I am hearing!

Am getting better sound than with my previous setup: Vista laptop, Mediamonkey 3.2/ASIO, Furutech USB, M-Audio Transit and Optichord. Used ASIO because WASAPI support was 3rd-party, and not very stable in this environment. MM 4.0 is supposed to fix this, but has been a long time coming, and still no target date in sight.

Always willing to try new computer stuff, but like Goldfinch says, the JRMC user interface is simplicity itself, and it has been an extremely stable environment for me. Would be really hard to give that up unless the sound improvement is dramatic!

Hook

I have not implemented any of the CMP2 tweaks, I just run the cicsplayer on my Desktop computer through Harman-Kardon PC-speakers, so nothing fancy for HiFi-room listening.

I have adapted the settings to my likings though (resampler settings and buffer size) and always use the 2x upsampling functionality on 44.1 and 48 kHz audio, which I have to switch to manualy. High-Res audio I leave untouched.

The settings I prefer are:


What it brings me is a much clearer, more vibrant sound. J River (and Foobar as well but less so) sounds more muddled to my ears.

My musical preference is classical music and jazz and I have a preference for a clear and well separated presentation of the music. I feel this cicsplayer is giving me this more than other software players, so much so that I am willing to stick with this %^*#$ of a user interface.
Varying the buffer size does influence this effect of clear and separated presentation.

For 'ease of use' I have all my music organised with cue-sheets. That way I can load a whole album at once with an easy double-click.

-
aleg

quote:

Originally posted by Doctor Jazz:
Can someone please tell me the best media player software to use with a PC (Windows 7) and Naim DAC? The latest version of Nero comes with Nero Media Hub but I figured that there might be a better standalone app.

Thanks

Start using Foobar now. Period. You will love it. NO limitations what so ever. none. I can help you get dialed.

-patrick

quote:

Originally posted by Doctor Jazz:
Thanks for the tip Mward2205. I was planning to have a dedicated laptop for music and use it with an M-Transit Audio USB device to provide digital output. Would it be best to disable the laptop's onboard soundcard in the BIOS?

The best would be to keep the on board sound card as the Windows default sound device. Then with ASIO4ALL drivers installed you're sure that your USB sound card is not getting "contaminated" with Windows mixer & drivers.

quote:

Originally posted by Aleg:

quote:

Originally posted by ghook2020:

quote:

Originally posted by goldfinch:

quote:

Originally posted by Aleg:
cicsmediaplayer.

The user interface is %^*#$ but the sound is IMO so much better than J River.

-
aleg

The User interface is so %^*#$ that I still haven't tried it,
interesting you found it much better than JRiver, did you make at the same time some cmp2 tweakery or you just changed the player?

Hi Aleg -

Also very interested in the details of what you are hearing.

Am using JRMC 14 on a fan-less, sdd-based PC running Windows 7 and exclusive mode WASAPI. My RME 9632 audio card supports all the right sample rates, and feeds the DAC via a DSub9-to-BNC connection. So far, I really like what I am hearing!

Am getting better sound than with my previous setup: Vista laptop, Mediamonkey 3.2/ASIO, Furutech USB, M-Audio Transit and Optichord. Used ASIO because WASAPI support was 3rd-party, and not very stable in this environment. MM 4.0 is supposed to fix this, but has been a long time coming, and still no target date in sight.

Always willing to try new computer stuff, but like Goldfinch says, the JRMC user interface is simplicity itself, and it has been an extremely stable environment for me. Would be really hard to give that up unless the sound improvement is dramatic!

Hook

I have not implemented any of the CMP2 tweaks, I just run the cicsplayer on my Desktop computer through Harman-Kardon PC-speakers, so nothing fancy for HiFi-room listening.

I have adapted the settings to my likings though (resampler settings and buffer size) and always use the 2x upsampling functionality on 44.1 and 48 kHz audio, which I have to switch to manualy. High-Res audio I leave untouched.

The settings I prefer are:


What it brings me is a much clearer, more vibrant sound. J River (and Foobar as well but less so) sounds more muddled to my ears.

My musical preference is classical music and jazz and I have a preference for a clear and well separated presentation of the music. I feel this cicsplayer is giving me this more than other software players, so much so that I am willing to stick with this %^*#$ of a user interface.
Varying the buffer size does influence this effect of clear and separated presentation.

For 'ease of use' I have all my music organised with cue-sheets. That way I can load a whole album at once with an easy double-click.

-
aleg

If you use upsampling, you don't get a bit perfect output. What you get is artificial, computed sound. But if you like it, it's OK.

quote:

Originally posted by Mward2205:
If you use upsampling, you don't get a bit perfect output. What you get is artificial, computed sound. But if you like it, it's OK.

Mward

I have of course compared the two and it is not as bad as you make it sound.

I, of course, only use non-fractioned upsampling (so only multplied by 2) and the difference is only very small between the two.

Have you actually tried it with this cicsplayer?
I would like to hear your personal experience how you judge the difference using this player.

-
aleg

quote:

Originally posted by Aleg:

quote:

Originally posted by Mward2205:
If you use upsampling, you don't get a bit perfect output. What you get is artificial, computed sound. But if you like it, it's OK.

Mward

I have of course compared the two and it is not as bad as you make it sound.

I of course only use non-fractioned upsampling (so only multplied by 2) and the difference if only very small between the two.

Have you actually tried it with this cicsplayer?
I would like to hear your personal experience how you judge the difference using this player.

-
aleg

I only use JRiver Media Jukebox. I found out that a bit perfect output sounds better with Ayre QB-9 USB DAC. Also the manufacturer warns on their web site : "For the Ayre USB D/A converters, be sure to clear the checkboxes "Always Resample 44.1kHz <-> 48kHz" and "Force WDM Driver to 16 Bit". This will ensure that the data sent to your audio device is bit-perfect."

quote:

Originally posted by Doctor Jazz:

Is there any difference between Media Jukebox and Media Centre from J.River?

"There are two versions of J.River available— Media Jukebox is completely free and works extremely well for most music users. Media Center is a $50 download (with a 30-day free trial period) and offers multiple music libraries (which are useful for organizing large collections of music), along with extensive support for both videos and photos (making it a complete playback center for all of your computer-based media)."

Quote from Ayre website.

quote:

Originally posted by Mward2205:

quote:

Originally posted by Aleg:

quote:

Originally posted by Mward2205:
If you use upsampling, you don't get a bit perfect output. What you get is artificial, computed sound. But if you like it, it's OK.

Mward

I have of course compared the two and it is not as bad as you make it sound.

I of course only use non-fractioned upsampling (so only multplied by 2) and the difference if only very small between the two.

Have you actually tried it with this cicsplayer?
I would like to hear your personal experience how you judge the difference using this player.

-
aleg

I only use JRiver Media Jukebox. I found out that a bit perfect output sounds better with Ayre QB-9 USB DAC. Also the manufacturer warns on their web site : "For the Ayre USB D/A converters, be sure to clear the checkboxes "Always Resample 44.1kHz <-> 48kHz" and "Force WDM Driver to 16 Bit". This will ensure that the data sent to your audio device is bit-perfect."

Mward

Thank you for your honest answer that you didn't actualy listen to the cicsplayer using the oversampler.

For me personaly that means that your statement about the sound quality is of no value whatsoever.
You could at least have taken the trouble to try it for yourself once, just to make sure you know what you are talking about before making such a derogatory remark.

Enjoy your J River, I don't.

-
aleg

quote:

Start using Foobar now. Period. You will love it. NO limitations what so ever. none. I can help you get dialed.

-patrick

I am with Patrick on this one. With WASAPI plug in you are on to a winner. I have tried loads of players, none so far compare

quote:

Originally posted by Aleg:

quote:

Originally posted by Mward2205:

quote:

Originally posted by Aleg:

quote:

Originally posted by Mward2205:
If you use upsampling, you don't get a bit perfect output. What you get is artificial, computed sound. But if you like it, it's OK.

Mward

I have of course compared the two and it is not as bad as you make it sound.

I of course only use non-fractioned upsampling (so only multplied by 2) and the difference if only very small between the two.

Have you actually tried it with this cicsplayer?
I would like to hear your personal experience how you judge the difference using this player.

-
aleg

I only use JRiver Media Jukebox. I found out that a bit perfect output sounds better with Ayre QB-9 USB DAC. Also the manufacturer warns on their web site : "For the Ayre USB D/A converters, be sure to clear the checkboxes "Always Resample 44.1kHz <-> 48kHz" and "Force WDM Driver to 16 Bit". This will ensure that the data sent to your audio device is bit-perfect."

Mward

Thank you for your honest answer that you didn't actualy listen to the cicsplayer using the oversampler.

For me personaly that means that your statement about the sound quality is of no value whatsoever.
You could at least have taken the trouble to try it for yourself once, just to make sure you know what you are talking about before making such a derogatory remark.

Enjoy your J River, I don't.

-
aleg

I never said that the cicsplayer sounds bad using upsampling. What I said was that way you don't get a bit-perfect output.
And whether you prefer bit-perfect or upsampled, it's entirely up to you and fine by me.

Maybe using the phrase "artificial, computed sound" has put you off somewhat, but that is a fact - the sound you hear has been computed.

But many manufacturers today use upsampling in their DACs, some others say it's better without.
Thank god we're all different...

quote:

Originally posted by Occean:

quote:

Start using Foobar now. Period. You will love it. NO limitations what so ever. none. I can help you get dialed.

-patrick

I am with Patrick on this one. With WASAPI plug in you are on to a winner. I have tried loads of players, none so far compare

"Music Players

There are literally dozens of choices when it comes to music players. For most users we recommend J.River for its combination of ease of use, excellent ripping capability, flexible tagging options, and high sound quality. J.River it is a ready-to-go, all-in-one solution yet is highly configurable with many features. J.River also supports a wide variety of file formats and has its own online database for tagging music files. For many people J.River is perhaps the best overall choice.

Foobar 2000 is another popular music player with a great deal of flexibility, and in specific cases may offer some advantages over J.River. However,Foobar 2000 is more of a "do-it-yourself" kit than an "all-in-one" program. The basic setup is very easy, but configuring it to fit your needs may prove to be a bit challenging. It does not provide the slick package offered by J.River, but it does have its own "stripped down" appeal for the computer enthusiast, and is capable of excellent audio performance.

J.River uses Apple's QuickTime software to decode the Apple music file formats, AAC (Advanced Audio Coding) and ALAC (Apple Lossless Audio Coding). The combination of the two programs creates a few minor quirks, so if you rely on one of the Apple formats, Foobar 2000 may be a better choice. For nearly everyone else, J.River is recommended."

Another quote from Ayre web site.

if one software player sounds different than another (assuming bit perfect play back), the player is doing something in terms of sampling or equalization or some other modification of the music.

J River, Foobar, Winamp, iTunes etc. should all sound basically the same.

Go with the player that specifically says "it doesn't sound better than other players." i.e. Foobar. Also choose one that work well for you.

I have been doing this for about 4 years now and I have tried EVERYTHING... even the cPlay/CMP "cicsplayer".

Given that Foobar can offer you ANY UI you want, can be easily used with ASIO, WASAPI, KS output, and has really no limits with respect to library size, it is the player to start with. Then try other and see if you change.

-Patrick

What about Twonky?? Is this any good......
I too am interested in this subject, after trying out media monkey, i think I'd like to give foobar a go. But i wonder why everything over at linn regarding their DS and NAS is Twonky based??

Is there any software/player which will uncompress FLAC??? or is this something the actual DS's do??

The reason i ask is, with regards to another post on here, i can hear a noticeable difference in WAV files (being significantly better) in comparison to FLAC, but this is in playing WAV and playing FLAC. If there was software that uncompressed it when it played, i think, maybe then, there would be no audible difference, whilst saving serious disk space too!!