Ekos v ARO

I own an Ekos, have never owened an ARO, but when I purchased the Ekos, I spent a long time doing a direct comparison between the two.

I was lucky enough to buy my Ekos about 1989. Lucky because at this time the dealer I was using still had about 4 or 5 LP12's that they used for dems, so we were able to switch back and forth between the two easily.

My memory is not good enough to give a direct comparison after 12 or so years, but I do remember that I decided that I liked the ARO but could not live with it long term. I had a similar experience last year with a dem of the CD5 versus the Densen, where I think the Densen is actually better than the CD5, but through Naim Amps the sound is ultimatly fatiguing, so I bought the CD5. In the case of ARO vs Ekos though I think the Ekos is better.

Having since checked the serial number on my Ekos I found that it was an Ekos 1, but the final revision, so it has the new bearings, but is missing one modification, cant remember what. In fact I beleive that my Ekos is one of the last Ekos 1's. Bad timing on that purchase !

Simon

The ARO is a big improvement over the Akito in many ways but I had to pay a lot of attention to setup in order to get it to boogie and it still isn't quite as much 'fun' as the Akito was. It does however sound a lot more real.

I guess this is all down to which musical factors are the most important to the listener. Rythm is very important to me but lots of deep bass isn't.

I wonder if Ekos users tend to have large floor standers (to get even more bass)and ARO users tend to have small stand mounted speakers????? Confirm or deny my theory.....

Steve

John

Sproggle
Can't fault your choice in speakers.
One of the problems I have with the Ekos is that in terms of frequency response it is kind of the mirror image of Kans and so tends to cancel out some of the midrange hump which gives them their character. I suppose this may make them more acceptable to people who find them a bit much but for me, the effect was a bit unKanny.

How do you rate the Troika against the 17D2? - I thought that the Troika (in either ARO or Ekos) was a better cartridge in terms of detail and refinement which was great for 20% of my collection but the 17D2 really rocked which was more appropriate for the other 80%.
Steve

Since my dealer no longer sells Linn products, I'm fairly restricted in my choice of cartridges unless I go elsewhere. If I could afford to buy and replace a 17D2 I'd have no hesitation in getting one without comparing it with the competition - as long as it works as well in an Ekos as it does in an ARO.

However, if Linn launch a new range of MM cartridges, I might well go for one of those when my current K9 wears out, even if it means having to buy it from another dealer. I simply don't like anything I can currently afford to replace my K9 with. My last two cartridges were DV10X4Mk2 (which I came to loathe even though it's a lot better than the K9 in some ways) and a Rega Elys (which was very smooth and sophisticated sounding compared with the K9 but which in my system was limited in its capacity to convey emotion, and ended up boring me).

Incidentally, I contacted Linn about their rumoured new MM range of cartridges, and was told that they are investigating the possibility of making one or more new MM catridges but that there is not even any certainty that any will be launched, let alone an expected release date for them.

-=>Sproggle McBoing<=-

[This message was edited by Sproggle on SUNDAY 02 September 2001 at 22:57.]

I use a 17D2 in my Ekos, and it works fine.

The only reservation I have over the 17d2 is the bass. It's perfectly capable of producing bass, and the bass is very quick and musical, but does not go as low as I would like.

As long as you don't want to have seismic levels of bass ( difficult with my IBL's anyway), the 17d2/Ekos combination works fine.

Simon

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I must confess to being surprised by how many seem to prefer the ARO, and now my curiosity has got the better of me so here are the options:

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Wow, the Aro is getting a bit of a thrashing here!

From the couple of dems I had when it and the Ekos originally came out I personally prefer the Aro. To my ears the Ekos, whilst certainly having excellent control in a hi-fi sense i.e. more extended at both frequency extremes, seemed to lack something quite noticeable from a musical perspective. The Aro has such a good way with getting the music to work, I can't really explain how, but for me its just better.

My issues with the Aro are all in non-sonic areas: The first is that you can't adjust overhang is to my mind just plain stupid, there is a quite sizeable difference of overhang between different brands of cartridges, and getting this setting wrong means the cartridge simply can not track as well as intended. Secondly it was designed and is sold without a cueing device, there was a after market device called the Aromatic, but these are a rare item these days. I for one would be reluctant to cue a wobbly LP12 with a thousand quid cartridge installed with a wobbly unipivot arm and no cueing device. With my P9 / RB900 or my old Roksan / RB300 I could happily change records when totally pissed out of my box - I am scared of Aros when completely sober.

I'm afraid I liken the Aro to the Armageddon, yes to my mind they both have the best sounding units available, though both are flawed by design - crap ergonomics / limited adjustment on the Aro, and an ability to play just half your record collection at the right speed with the Geddon. It is a shame Naim gave up with analogue, they were half way there (the hard half!).

Tony.

I was going to post my rationale but I only have to say that, as usual, Tony has encapsulated my feelings on the subject more eloquently than I could.

The Ekos may have more brute force, but there is much more of the musical message from the Aro.

If I did get one, I would have to have an Aromatic, though.

cheers, Martin

Bearing in mind the difficulty of getting a comparitive dem (my dealer does not like the ARO) I feel as if I may have to make a choice based on trust, rather than experience.

On the one hand I have a good relationship with my dealer, yet I also have an inherent trust in Naim's ability to get things right. As for Linn, well they did invent the LP12, so should know a thing or two

What I'd love to see is some more information on the advantages of the somewhat more radical solution that Naim ended up with.

For example the overhang issue and why it's deemed unimportant in the ARO. I find the headshell strength argument I've seen a difficult one to swallow, from an engineering perspective.

Also am I right in thinking that tracking force is set a little higher in an ARO than with a conventional gimballed arm? If this is true this would be at odds with the desire to reduce tracking force / wear. I suspect that lower friction within the bearings has a lot to do with this, if true.

And then there's the useability issues, I'm perfectly happy to cue either arm manually when sober, since this is normal for my Ittok. But like Tony, if I've had a few, or my partner wanted to change a record then the ease of an Ekos wins every time.

I can see the need to do some travelling to get a dem, in order to decide whether sonic virtue beats ergonomics (assuming the ARO is the better of the two!).

Andy.

I have owned both and worked in a shop where we had both up and running concurrently. I originally went for an Ekos 2 as it seemed "better." In retrospect I was hearing more hifi elements and not more music. I have posted on this comparison before and it is one where I would not denigrate a choice either way.

For the record, I think the Ekos goes a bit deeper in the bass, is a bit weightier, and is tighter overall from the middle of the midrange on down. The Aro is quicker dynamically, more "in tune," cleaner from the middle of the midrange on up, and overall more natural sounding. I cannot explain why others think the Aro sounds thin; I have never heard that and wonder if it was just bad environmentals or setup or . . . ?

I also think the choice depends somewhat on the system and on ones musical priorities. I know my own preference and think it unfortunate that more people cannot audition both side by side and make an informed decision.

Cheers,

Bob

Ride the Light !

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I can see the need to do some travelling to get a dem, in order to decide whether sonic virtue beats ergonomics (assuming the ARO is the better of the two!).

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I think it's worth getting a dem of both, if for nothing else than peace of mind. You may even find that you have a strong preference for one or the other - it may not simply be a question of each having a different set of strengths and weaknesses.

What still puzzles me is not so much that people disagree about which of the two arms is better but the fact that they disagree about what strengths and weaknesses they have. For example, Bob said:

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The Aro is quicker dynamically... ...and overall more natural sounding.

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Given that he has had far more opportunity to compare the two arms than I have, I'm tempted to assume that he's right and my own observations - which are the opposite of this - are anomalous. But maybe we just hear the same things differently...

--Jeremy

[This message was edited by Sproggle on MONDAY 03 September 2001 at 17:34.]

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If Armandaleggon is better than Lingo, and Aro is better than Ekos, then why are they cheaper??

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Patrick, you're question seems to imply that the pricing is based on the market position of these items, as opposed to their manufacture / design costs

For the arms, I can easily see that the cost of obtaining / aigning tight tolerance bearings and getting them to work would be greater than the cost of the simpler unipivot bearing. Even with the skills of Linn's capable engineering team they needed two attempts to get it right on the Ekos

As for the Armandaleggon, take a look inside, and then look for the 45 RPM button

Andy (in mischievious mood).

P.S. I wonder how diferent the current Armageddon is from the original 'Armageddon' mods that Naim did for their own LP12's (and select reviewers) all those years ago. The original 'Armageddon' also included what has become the Prefix phono stage. If memory serves me correct, the mods were done since JV / Naim felt that the lack of progress in LP12 developement was holding back Naim's amplifier development.

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P.S. I wonder how diferent the current Armageddon is from the original 'Armageddon' mods that Naim did for their own LP12's (and select reviewers) all those years ago. The original 'Armageddon' also included what has become the Prefix phono stage.

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Aha! This would explain what I heard on my first Lingo dem, when I was briefly given a comparison with something else - which I later assumed had been the Armageddon. The Lingo seemed to have better speed stability but the Armageddon - if that's what it was - sounded cleaner and more dynamic. Now it all makes sense.

Here's a scenario that might be interesting if it came true:

Scene: a grubby motorway service area somewhere in the north of England, late September 2001.

The players:
NR: Naim representative
LR: Linn representative

LR: So what's this secret meeting all about?

NR: It's about the Lingo.

LR: The Lingo... Indeed...

NR: You have, no doubt, read Andrew Weekes' thread on our forum?

LR: (remains silent)

NR: We've been doing our own experiments - we've made our Lingo sound better than Andy's. Actually, it's now even better, in our estimation, than the Armageddon!

LR: (trying to hide his sarcasm) Even better, ay?

NR: I have a small proposition for you.

LR: (raises an eyebrow by a millimetre)

Twenty minutes later:

LR: So you will cease production of the Armageddon next month - citing reduced demand - and we will launch the improved Lingo early next year. Of course, none of this will be possible if word gets out. We'd deny the whole thing.

NR: But of course - so would we.

Unnoticed in the heavy traffic, two cars join the motorway simultaneously, heading in opposite directions at 55 mph - the same ever so slight smile on each driver's face - an expression signifying a satisfying victory over an old rival.

Meanwhile, a squadron of yellow and blue striped pigs floats over the motorway, largely unnoticed...

--Jeremy

[This message was edited by Sproggle on TUESDAY 04 September 2001 at 11:23.]

I think you hit the nail on the head when you mentioned "hearing differently." An audiologist once told me there is far more difference in how people hear than from one stereo to the next. I accept that people hear differently (just look at how hearing works) and that that will lead to different people making different choices. In your position I would not assume that since I have had more chance to compare the Ekos v. the Aro that my impressions are more important TO YOU than your own--clearly they are not. I would suggest you audition the Aro again on as close to an identical turntable to yours as you can find, swapping the cartridge. Then, if you feel the Aro is better and you want to invest in one, go for it ! I confess to being astonished that anyone would prefer a 17D2 to a Troika in good shape.

I also think the "hearing differently" idea explains a lot of differences on the efficacy of stands/supports, among other things.

Cheers,

Bob

Ride the Light !

Phil