Tu kan or not to Kan

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…as the crossover in the Kans is known to be of low quality, should I upgrade dispite of that.

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Hmmm, known to all but those of us who have used them happily for well over a decade! I’d suggest that when you get to LP12 / Geddon / Aro / 52 / 135s or whatever you can then criticise the crossover! I plan to one day...

The Kan 2 can sound astonishingly open and clear, but needs a little help and care in set up to do so:

First I’m assuming you are using Kan 2 stands; nothing else will do (except apparently Sound Org wall brackets), you haven’t heard the speaker properly if you are not using the correct stand.

Secondly the stands need to be absolutely rigid – if you have any play the speakers will not sound any good. Don’t be tempted to stamp the stands into the floor, if you do they sound leaden and closed in. Also don’t be tempted to stick them on screw heads, they will rush the tempo and sound strident. Just rest the spikes on the floorboards and level them very carefully.

Thirdly the bi-wire links really suck; they shut the sound in - ideally you want to solder 2 pairs of plugs onto the cable at the correct distance, but I realise that this is awkward in a dem – try the leads in the treble sockets and see how the top opens up and the bottom shuts down, then try them in the bass sockets and notice how much tighter and fuller they get - you will understand what I’m on about once you hear it.

The Kan 2, Epos 14, and Tukan are all great speakers – the 14 really needs a lot more clout than a 90 though, I’m very surprised that you are preferring it in this situation. To be honest you can’t go far wrong with any of these speakers.

Tony.

Thanks for your reply Tony. You seem to know what you're talking about.

First of all I think I've misunderstood some earlier posts about the crossover. I think it might have been the Kan 1 and the Tukan, not the Kan 2, which was referred to.

I'm sorry to say I don't use Linn stands. My stands have no name printet on them, but feature 4 upright pieces about double the width of the ones on Kan 2 stands (from what I can tell from the pictures I've seen). Top and bottom consists of flat square platters. Does anybody know the name of theese stands by chance? They were filled with lead shot when I bought them (aprox 40 - 50 kg each!). I had a hard time getting it out through the little holes in the top of the stands, but definitely considered the sound more involving afterwards. If the Kan 2 stands are an upgrade any alike this I'll try to find a pair (though that's not an easy task in Denmark - guess shipping from UK is quite expensive, are they heavy?)

I'm not sure the stands are absolutely rigid as they are standing on carpet. Should I force them trough the carpet (as I have at the moment) or leave them on top, though slightly less stable that way?

I'm about to replace my speaker cables with a pair at double the lenght. I was about to put termination on the k20 I just received from UK (Ebay) and I'm glad I got to know about the double termination tip now. Thanks again. BTW (finally figured out the meanin of that one...btw) is the nac4 /5 a way better cable for me than the k20? When I bought the k20 I heard from varies people that it was essentially a naim cable. Now, as I've received the k20, I'm told it's not.

About the Epos...
It's funny how when I used them in another room I felt absolutely no lack of power and yet in my current room it doesn't work out well with LF. I think it was a strike of luck that they worked in the other room (my parents place - both in a small room and in the living room). It had a floor made of stone (correct term?) and I've actually newer heard a speaker work well there before. In my current room the bass gets uncontrolled at very low frequensies and a lot of the bass not quite so deep disappears it seemes.

Something quite simarly happend a year ago when I moved my AVI positrons from an aprox 30 m2 living room to the room I'm using now. The sound just died out. It turned out they are quite a load to drive. I tried them with 135's and stuff in another room a bit alike mine and (some of) the magic was back. Still prefer a small amp and optimal acoustic enviroment over greater electronics in a compromised setup though.

Erik

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I'm sorry to say I don't use Linn stands. My stands have no name printet on them, but feature 4 upright pieces about double the width of the ones on Kan 2 stands (from what I can tell from the pictures I've seen). Top and bottom consists of flat square platters. Does anybody know the name of theese stands by chance? They were filled with lead shot when I bought them (aprox 40 - 50 kg each!).

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I’d need a pic to identify them, but IMHO Kans hate heavy filled stands. The magic just goes. Beg borrow or steal some Kan II stands ASAP.

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I'm not sure the stands are absolutely rigid as they are standing on carpet. Should I force them trough the carpet (as I have at the moment) or leave them on top, though slightly less stable that way?

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Here is the best way to set them up: (though you must hate your carpet to do this…) Get some packing tape, you know, the brown kind. Stick it onto the carpet and plonk the stands down – this means you can move the stands and still see where the spike holes are (and how long did it take me to work that one out!). Cut a little cross with a Stanley knife through the carpet where the hole is - this means the spike will penetrate the carpet easily and can be accurately levelled. Remove the packing tape. Job done.

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BTW (finally figured out the meanin of that one...btw) is the nac4 /5 a way better cable for me than the k20? When I bought the k20 I heard from varies people that it was essentially a naim cable.

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K20 is a far warmer and less informative cable – if you want to fault mask a crappy source then it can sound better, but if things are working right it will always be worse than A5. Loose it!

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Still prefer a small amp and optimal acoustic enviroment over greater electronics in a compromised setup though.

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Set up is IMHO by far the most important issue in a system – It is amazing what quite modest equipment can do if installed correctly.

Tony.

PS These are Kan 2 stands…

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I was interested in your comments regarding the links but couldnt quite follow what you meant.pleas clarify in a little more detail

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Well, a picture is worth a thousand words...

Tony Lonorgan wrote
"K20 is a far warmer and less informative cable – if you want to fault mask a crappy source then it can sound better, but if things are working right it will always be worse than A5. Loose it!"

That may be putting it mildly Tony! I've followed your recommendation regarding speakercable. I've just replaced my 2*3 m of k20 with 2*5 m of Naca5 and it took me about 2 seconds to notice a great difference. The 90/3 now seems like double the amp it was before. Some records now features more bass, others less as the bass is now much more powerfull and controlled at the same time. Overall the bass if much more apparent and EVERYTHING seems much more powerfull and rythmic now.
My local Linn dealer, who used to be a Naim dealer as well, told me he couldn't tell the difference between the Naca5 and k20. As I had Linn speakers he thought I might as well use the Linn cable to suit them. He was WRONG.

Thanks Tony

Erik,

Your dealer may have been comparing his aural memory of Naim's old NAC A4 with that of K20. I have equal length pairs of both lying about and they do indeed sound very similar.

Apparently K20 uses the same conductor as did A4. The insulation is of a softer composition but the spacing between conductors, number of strands, guage etc are identical.

Naim stopped sourcing their loudspeaker wire from their A4 supplier as they were selling essentially the same wire to Linn and Exposure. Its just as well that Naim did so as that action spurred on the development of A5 which is in an altogether different league.

Craig

Tony's said it all really. I only differ in that I believe that it is possible to succesfully set Kans up on cross head screws - the trick is to make sure that they rest in the centre depression without having to force them in. This is fiddly to align the screws properly.

Kans don't sound shut in when properly setup and driven.

Regards
Steve

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I'll try to find a pair (though that's not an easy task in Denmark - guess shipping from UK is quite expensive, are they heavy ?

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Hi Erik,

You can still order de dedicated Kan-II stand from (proabably) any Linn dealer.
They come flatpacked in a small box so can easily be sent by post.
They're are not welded stands, but are easy to put together, within about 15 minutes.
They're very light but also rigid.

BTW: I just had a friend over for a short visit, about one hour ago. He listened to my Nait-2/CDX/Kans system and (still) he doesn't like Kan's at all.
(he has a Nait-2/Rega P3/Mission 760SE's)
He told me he couldn't live with the fact that Kan's sound too "flat". He said:"They do many things right but there's hardly any bass and most of all there's no (3D) depth in the soundstage.
I know what he means and sometimes I'd also like some more depth, but on the other hand... I go to concerts quite frequently ('bout twice a month) and have never experienced any 3D depth there, so...

Neverteheless, I agree with Tony on the Kan issue here. They are remarkeble speakers, but are VERY, VERY sensitive to setup and front-end, and the Kan-stands is indeed more ore less a MUST.
I've been there. When I first got my Kan's I had some very heavy (though way better looking then the Kan stands) Target HR60 stands. These stands sounded brilliant when partnered with 95% of all the speakers available, but the Kan's completely transformed when I went from those Target to the dedicated Kan-II stands.

Greetings,
Alco

Alco,

Could it be that, like you, your friend has not yet heard your Kans at their best due to your 'floaty' floor over carpet compromise and also due to your ongoing obsession with other than Naim loudspeaker cable that is chosen based upon looks and length over performance and compatibility?

Your friend does have an excuse for his poor taste, as he is, no doubt, more accustomed to listening to the designed in bass hump of the 760SE. It is that very response bump that allows them to be placed out from the back wall such that they can deliver all manner of round earth spatial effects (affects?), which for some listeners will partially conceal the fact that they are indeed crap.

Craig

Craig,
I have never heard Kans but I have stuck a pair of old Mission 780's (upgrade of the 760i)on the end of my system and it sounded quite good. Much better than it should have done considering the cost 2nd hand (£90). It was abit lumpy and less free dynamically than my EPOS ES11's but it did time ok. I can't remember any false 3D spacial effects though as it did n't image as well as my ES11's. It certainly made me a beliver of source first.

Simon

Simon,

I may have overstated my case a bit by referring to the 760SE as crap. I should have said that they were typical of the majority of the crap in their price sector.

IIRC the Cyrus 780 was a different speaker altogether despite the similar looks. I once heard a pair sounding rather good on the end of a lean sounding Cyrus integrated amp (said amp may have offset the speakers 'lumpy' nature somewhat).

Craig

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Alco,
Could it be that, like you, your friend has not yet heard your Kans at their best due to your 'floaty' floor over carpet compromise and also due to your ongoing obsession with other than Naim loudspeaker cable that is chosen based upon looks and length over performance and compatibility ?

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Hi Graig,
No, it couldn't be my 'floaty' floor over the carpet compromise. I confess that it didn't do much good for the sound of my Kan's but it doesn't cause the 'lack' of depth.
My choice for other than Naim cable is not based on looks, (it looks like elcheapo bellwire)but based on performance and ease of use, (3.5 meter of naca5 is too tuff too hide or band) This friend also uses a Nait-2, and we both tried naca5, in my house and in his. We both liked the Naca5, but we prefered other brands.
I sold him my Naca5,early this year, but after a few months he settled on Kimber 4TC.

I also feel hat many ported speakers have some sort of bass hump.

regards,
Alco