Linn vs Naim LP12

I recently compared these two players (without the Prefix and Linto). The system included 52/250/NBLs. In this presentation, IMO the Aro/Armageddon player was superior particularly with regard to dynamics and what I felt was a greater overall naturalism. Now I have owned an Ekos/Lingo/Linto LP12 for some years so I am very familiar with it. Nonetheless, I feel that the Naimed LP12 does some things better (?) or at least with different emphasis. Both LP12 systems are excellent IMO.

Your choice may come down to individual preferences in presentation. You may also wish to consider the issue of 45rpm (which is quite inconvenient with the Naimed LP12). If you choose the Lingo, make sure you get the Conn 401/E connector if the rest of your system is Naim.

Paul

I listen with my body, alas, not with my concious critical faculties.

When I listen to the LP12, I feel either excited (good) or on edge (bad).

When I listen to the Naim version, I have a sense of 'rightness' and 'liquidity' or 'fluidity' about the sound. The music just flows like live music does.

From what I've read about the CDS/XPS, I would hypothesize that the Linn is on the CDX/XPS side of some spectrum; the Naim is on the CDS1 side.

It's highly probable that one could benefit by buying both, listening to one or the other to fit your mood.

Regards.

Phil

Not a simple one to answer, as I'm sure you have seen as you have looked at some of the exchanges on this forum. The old forum had quite a bit on this very subject--alas, not available.

On the Ekos/Lingo vs the Aro/Armageddon: I have lived with both combinations for years. I think a Naimed LP12 excels and exceeds the Linn version in terms of coherence, dynamics (both micro and macro), tunefulness, and emotional communication. The Linn'ed version goes deeper into the bass and is a bit tighter, lacking the flow of the Naimed LP12. Put it this way--the Linn is better if you have lots records like the Telarc drum record; the Naim is better if you have records like Oliver Nelson: The Blues and the Abstract truth or Husker Du's Flip Your Wig.

On the Prefix v Linto--both are very good. The Linto is a bit drier sounding, the Prefix more natural sounding. In my experience with both the Prefix has less of a sound--there is a larger difference from one record to another, which I have taken to mean the Linto is imposing a bit more of its own sound to the proceedings, although I should note that not everyone agrees with that.

Over the long haul I'd take the Naimed version in a flash--it has just been more fun and easier to listen to.

Cheers,

Bob

Ride the Light !r

Especially in regard to some of the high-ticket fraims, er, racks... I don't doubt the benefit of some of these, but is everyone on here a doctor or lawyer with no other expenses?? I understand some people make a considerable amount of money and should be able to spend it the way they like, but as someone who makes a pretty good living, has about $15,000 invested in hifi gear (some of it used, yet) and still has to pay rent, buy food, etc, I sometimes shake my head in wonder.

Yeah, buying two completely decked-out LP-12s is just the thing. I don't know how I made do with one.

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If you choose the Lingo, make sure you get the Conn 401/E connector if the rest of your system is Naim.

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Not necessarily, it is only required if there is no other connection between mains earth and signal earth in your system.

Things are also different if using a Prefix.

Most dealers do not understand the intricate detail of when the 401/E lead should be used, assuming that it's always used in a Naim system, or if hum occurs. This simply isn't true!

The difference between the Conn 401/E and the standard lead is that it adds a connection within the turntable to mains earth. This is removed when using the normal Lingo lead, although why Linn chose to do this is a slight mystery, it could prevent earth loops in some systems, I suppose. The Linn arm cables connect the earth wire / tag of the arm cable to mains earth within the turntable, via the chassis, if using a Basik / Valhalla supply.

Naim systems require a connection between signal earth and mains earth at one point in the system only. If you have a Naim CD player, or any other source that connects mains earth to signal earth, you don't need the 401/E lead (assuming all sources remain connected to the pre-amp simultaneously).

If using a standard LP12 with a Naim CD player the connection between mains earth and signal earth needs to be removed from one item. Please do not remove the safety earth to chassis - dead Naim users are something my conscience will not bear . The easiest thing to do in this case is disconnect the LP12 earth tag (arm lead) from the earth post on the preamp. Mains earth still provides a safety earth and a static drain for the turntable.

If the LP12 has a Prefix the black earth lead from it only connects to the Prefix case, the connection to mains earth is not present. In this instance you may need the 401/E lead to act as a static drain for the subchassis / platter / top plate of the LP12, if using a Lingo.

I don't know if the above makes sense to anyone, but this is exactly the reason many dealers (my own included) do not fully understand the 401/E's application. It's irritating since many people may not get optimum performance from their systems, owing to lack of dealer understanding. It's a very simple operation for a dealer to determine what components make the connection between signal and mains earth, Naim should highlight this problem more visibly, since it is only because of the design care that goes into their equipment as a system, that this attention to detail is necessary.

I guess the effect of multiple mains earth connections will vary from system to system, but it is safe to assume, since Naim state it so explicitly, that for optimum performance it makes sense to get it right if possible.

That should create some paranoia amongst you all

Andy.

ps Jeez Arthur thats some set of systems you've got. All you need is to shuffle a few decks. Have you got any posts in the real estate broking business? And perhaps you should start a competition to dispose of your "odd left-over bits". Or just give them to a deserving soul - like me.

Regards Alex.

[This message was edited by Alex S on FRIDAY 27 July 2001 at 18:09.]

For your situation Patrick's post sums it up nicely, I'd also like to know if you hear any difference and how significant it is.

Andy.

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I use an LP12 into a Linto first and then 102 preamp. The arm cable is earthed to the Linto instead of the 102. I do not have a Naim CD player. If I took the time I am sure I could figure it out, but do I need the Conn401E ? Linn says no.

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Colin,

I'm not sure, it depends if the Linto makes a connection between the two earths, and I'm not familiar with it - sorry!

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I have LP12/Lingo/Ekos/Prefix/Hi-Cap into a 52. I also have a NAT01 tuner.

I do not have a 401/E cable. Would one be necessary in this system?

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In your case you may not have a static drain on the LP12 - if you don't suffer from static buildup then I wouldn't worry.

I assume, (but only Naim or another owner will confirm) that the NAT01 does not make the connection between the two earths either, since Naim do this in the CD player.

It's a tricky one, since adding the 401/E will not make the connection between signal earth and mains earth if you're using a Prefix, and since you do not use a Naim CD player it is not made anywhere else.

If it was my system I'd either engineer a connection via the Hicap, or add the 401/E and an additional internal connection in the LP12 to connect mains earth to the Prefix earth.

The issue with both the above queries is not one of earth loops (multiple connections between mains and signal earths) but of the complete abscence of such an earth.

My second active system (42XO - 2x110's) didn't have this connection either, since it's fronted only by a tuner and minidisc player, so I've engineered a connection in my own PSU and am certain it sounds better when present.

Again I suggest Naim for advice, the conenction must be made for a reason, as removing it simplifies the situation for most people. For this reason I assume it to be fundamental for optimum system performance.

Andy.

I complained about static build up, and apparently on Linn's instruction an extra lead was connected from the Lingo plug earth to connect to my preamp earth post.

To be fair I had no problem with this set up until I bought my cdx, but now I do not have my Lingo plugged in or the arm/earth leads connected to my 82 when I listen to cd.

Chris

PS I did say in another post that I did not think that the Lingo took long to warm up. I was wrong.

It did not take long to sound better than a bare cdx!! It takes longer to sound its best.

I don't like 'h'umble pie!

Thanks for all the answers though, especially Paul, Phil and Bob. You've basically confirmed the opinion I already had. Looks like I'm going for the fully Naimed LP12.

To SaturnSF and Alex S:

Things are quite relative. Yes it's nice to have enough dosh to afford all this fancy stuff, but I'd trade it in a minute to still be able to pound my body mercilessly like I did when I was younger.
Did quite a bit of street and dirt bike(Enduro) riding in my youth. When my back finally gave out(fell off too much) I switched to more tame endeavours.

Arthur Bye

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I use an LP12 into a Linto first and then 102 preamp. The arm cable is earthed to the Linto instead of the 102. I do not have a Naim CD player. If I took the time I am sure I could figure it out, but do I need the Conn401E ? Linn says no.

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Colin:

My system includes a Linto and LP12/Lingo (with a NAT02 but no CD player). I recently had my Linn dealer install a CONN401/E at my request. The Linn distributor was not sure of the need for a the 401/E but (according to what I was told) Linn HQ gave approval.

Does it sound better? There were no significant problems before (with static etc) but IMO both the LP12 AND the tuner sound better. Am I hearing things? Possibly, but I do not feel any urgency or need to go back to the other Lingo cable.

I guess the ideal test would be to have two Lingos, with and without the 401/E, and try both (although some might possibly claim that the two Lingos will differ as well!!)

My advice to you is not to worry about it if you feel your system is working well. But if you cannot sleep well at night because of nightmares about the 401/E, perhaps you should have one installed.

Paul

PS My Ekos ground wire cable is connected to the Linto.

My interest in the CONN 401/E originally arose from criticism of the Lingo and debate about its deleterious effect upon Naim systems - particularly Naim CD players - all of which (according to several postings) went away with the use of the 401/E.

Now it is stated that the 401/E should NOT be used if a Naim CD player is also in the system. I do not dispute this at all as I have no technical expertise in this area. However, it follows that if this true then the negative "Lingo effect" is in all probability not "cured" by the use of the 401/E.

The paranoia deepens.

Paul

It was Andy who said:

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Naim systems require a connection between signal earth and mains earth at one point in the system only. If you have a Naim CD player, or any other source that connects mains earth to signal earth, you don't need the 401/E lead (assuming all sources remain connected to the pre-amp simultaneously).

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Patrick, how would I know if the Linto connects the earth straight through to the preamp (could/should there be another ground wire, like that from the Ekos presently connected to the Linto, connecting preamp and Linto - which there isn't at this point)?

Paul

If you have a multimeter you need to check for continuity between the mains plug earth pin of the Linto and the earth of the cable from Linto to preamp (either the phono outer, or the center pin of the DIN plug).

Andy.