F22 - Unbelievable

Your right of course. What a pathetic species we are as we are so small minded we cannot see the big picture. All the fighting achieves nothing apart from causing pain and grief.

Hi

Just got back from the Farnborough Show and the Eurofighter Typhoon did not meet it's fly spot which was very disapointing as well as the Vulcan being grounded with a brake hydraulic problem.

However the F18 Hornet and the good old F16 were still a thrill on full aftertburners and bloody loud.

I understand Don's concern but having just seen a dogfight between an ME 109 and a Spitfire made me think about how this country would now be if we did not have fighter development at the time. Without the planes we had in 1940 to challenge Germany's military conquest it's we could have lost the war.

It's probable that some of the products we use in audio are an indirect result of military technology .BASF Tape recorders used in communication were aquired by Bing Crosby at the end of the war and resulted in a massive leap in recording quality.

Castle Precision Engineering in Scotland make parts for the F35 Joint Strike Fighter, as well as the LP12's main bearing and the solid machined case for the Klimax equipment,amongst other things.

Regards.

After chatting with the guys at work, if it came to a dogfight, Typhoon every time. Great power to weight by far, lighter, and has pylons to hang stores off. The F-22 is turning the USAF's noses up. Good, but no cigar.

We reckon!

Tony

quote:

Originally posted by Don Hooper:
Your right of course. What a pathetic species we are as we are so small minded we cannot see the big picture. All the fighting achieves nothing apart from causing pain and grief.

Ever heard of some bloke called Hitler? I suspect you would not have liked his gang to have remained in power. As the phrase has it; if you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read it in English, thank a soldier.

For me it is deeper than that. If it were not for the 2nd world war my parents would not of met so I would not be here to comment. But it does not get away from the fact that the powerful minority cause wars and get the majority to fight them on their behalf. There must be a better way to resolve differences?

Reaing on a military website recently, about manned aircraft vs. unmanned fighters. It seems that the dogfighting ability in turns of turning speed, acceleration etc is not that important any more as you can be 200 miles away from your enemy, get data from AWACs and shoot them down beyond visual range.

Also read about Tornado teams "shooting down" the far more advanced F-16c by using tactics that overwhelmed its single pilot.

Mike,

Pretty much what I said earlier.
If anyone hasn't seen a Typhoon strut its stuff, a display is planned for the Battke of Britain air show at Duxford in September. It really is worth going out of your way for.

Tony

quote:

Originally posted by Don Hooper:
For me it is deeper than that. If it were not for the 2nd world war my parents would not of met so I would not be here to comment. But it does not get away from the fact that the powerful minority cause wars and get the majority to fight them on their behalf. There must be a better way to resolve differences?

And exactly what do you suggest? Maybe Obama and Bin Laden could get together for a game of Countdown or something like that. Why not write to the world's heads of state with your novel suggestion and let us know how you get on.
Meanwhile those of us who live in the real world will get on with real life.

I realise my point of view in the real world counts for nothing and that if I were to persue it it would be a pointless activity.

However it does not get away from the fact that the people who use war and terriorism to achieve their aims are nothing more than sick bullies that bring nothing to the world other than pain and death. Speak to someone who has spent time in a 2nd world war concentration camp and you will know what I mean. Spend time getting to know solders who have served in Iraq and Afganistan who have to live with the trauma they are suffering from what they have seen and done. There is never a good reason to start wars or terrorism and nothing any one can say will ever convince me otherwise.

I know real life is shitty and people do horrible things but just because it happens it does not make it right.

So Tomk I do live in the real world it's just I wish it was different.

quote:

Originally posted by Don Hooper:
There is never a good reason to start wars or terrorism and nothing any one can say will ever convince me otherwise.

Maybe minimal reason to start a war, but you mentioned Concentration Camps above - I suspect plenty of people would see the Allied effort to remove Hitler as well judged. The Falklands where invaded and the UK booted out the Argentinians; Kuwait and Saddam; the Bosnia nightmare finally ended by UN Intervention, etc etc.

Sadly war will never go away, regardless of how much one might like it to.

quote:

Originally posted by abbydog:

quote:

My point is that an air superiority fighter doesn't need to get involved in dogfights.

Wasn't that the prevaining theory in about 1936 or something with modern monoplane fighters?

In fact every time that theory has been advanced I think its been proved wrong.

Wasn't that a line from Top Gun ... the American's had lost their dog-fighting ability between Korean and Vietnam wars!

It looks like the lumbering old Tornado won't be around much longer. So a few thousand extra aircraft techies on the market for aviation jobs that don't exist. The Marham and Kings Lynn areas will be devastated.

Tony

quote:

Originally posted by Don Hooper:
I realise my point of view in the real world counts for nothing and that if I were to persue it it would be a pointless activity.

However it does not get away from the fact that the people who use war and terriorism to achieve their aims are nothing more than sick bullies that bring nothing to the world other than pain and death. Speak to someone who has spent time in a 2nd world war concentration camp and you will know what I mean. Spend time getting to know solders who have served in Iraq and Afganistan who have to live with the trauma they are suffering from what they have seen and done. There is never a good reason to start wars or terrorism and nothing any one can say will ever convince me otherwise.

I know real life is shitty and people do horrible things but just because it happens it does not make it right.

So Tomk I do live in the real world it's just I wish it was different.

Don with respect your reply is extremely patronising. I'm well aware of the horrors of war (as well aware as I can be without actually experiencing it). I wish, as you do, that bad guys and violence would never win out. But in the real world sadly that's not what happens.

What rescued prisoners in the 2nd world war concentration camps? Violence from the good guys. Ask your WWII prisoners how they felt about the hand wringers who thought we should all sit round a camp fire and sing ging gang goolie. Sadly the bad guys don't respond to that.
I agree entirely with you there should be a better way but sadly history says no. Could, should, wish, ought to, it's all BS in the real world.

Errr .... this started off as a light-hearted post on airplanes aimed at those who appreciate airplanes.

Now its developed (again) into an I'm-right-you're-wrong spat on war.
I know some will claim the two are linked, but no more so than civil airplanes are linked to global warming.
i.e. you are missing the point.

Please go discuss war somewhere else.

Agreed.



Tony

I know the guy that took the above photo. He was called by the pilot as soon as he landed and requested to not publish the image for a week. Reason? A totally illegal manoeuvre, but the pilot was to demob at the end of the week. A fine aircraft, retired too early.

Sepecat Jaguar?

Come on Tony!

It's obviously just the Lake District Model Flying Club's day out..and they have some big toys.

Yep, the mighty JagWar. And it's in the Mach loop in Wales. Near, I think, a place that makes me spit everywhere while saying it. Tap Mach loop into YouTube.

Tony

I think it might be the culprit half way through this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...eature=youtube_gdata

Almost as funny as Pauline Quirk playing a gay's mum in Emmerdale!

Tony

An oldie but a goody.
Just for those who may not have seen it before.

Modern jets doing low level ??? Nah - the old kites did real low level

Turn the sound off if you have "sensitive" ears around.

Low level Spitfire

I used to work on Buccaneers. When on exercise in Nevada, they'd sometimes return with tumbleweed wrapped around various bits. And F-16s stood no chance of keeping up at that level. Transonic, on the deck.

Tony

quote:

Originally posted by Mike-B:
An oldie but a goody.
Just for those who may not have seen it before.

Modern jets doing low level ??? Nah - the old kites did real low level

Turn the sound off if you have "sensitive" ears around.

Low level Spitfire

Is this fake?

No. Why would it be?

Tony

Apologies if I've posted this before. This guy has em the size of spacehoppers. Makes the Spitfire look tame!

Tony


Cool Froggy