Tom Evans phono

Your friends are correct.The Groove is a snooze.
I'll concur to its quietness and resolution but it just did not prove to be particularly tuneful or engaging.
Whilst it's not what I would consider a bad or amusical phono preamplifier,it's definately not the *killer* stage all the accolades and fuss would indicate.

Hi, I feel Ken and your friends are wrong, although in my experience it was not perfect with the Linn. I now use the Groove+ with the Well tempered reference and it sounds fantastic. I don't think its ideal with Linn cartridges either.

Has anyone compared the Microgroove to a Dynavector P75? While not exactly the same price this should be a good comparison. Any impressions?

Hi Ken

What do you think may be on the Groove's level technically, but beats it in musical terms. Perhaps you personal favorite list. Don't hold back money no object.

Paul

Hi Paul,

I eventually chose the 47 Labs Phonocube at roughly the same price here as the Evans.
It's also somewhat susceptible to RFI and the balance tends toward warmth but it's speed,authority,lucidity and a refreshingly natural and tuneful presentation won me over.
The Phonocube presents gobs of information but never calls attention to it in a highlighted manner, unlike the Groove.
With the Evan's unit, I'd often find myself drawn into the music and then suddenly spit back out,focusing on some sonic minutiae.
On recommendation,Ihad tried a number of diverse,highly regarded phono preamps ranging from the horrifyingly insipid Herron,the decidedly round earth Aesthetic Io,Art Audio's Vinyl One,Evan's Groove and 47 Labs in direct head to head comparisons in my home system over a multi-week timeframe.
The 47 Labs Phonocube easily bested the others in expressiveness,drive and tunefulness.What is difficult to explain but significant whilst listening is that the Phonocube never belies an underlying mechanical process going on behind the scenes.Until auditioning the 47 Labs device,I'd not been aware to the degree that type of intrusion is present in phonostages before(all too common with digital,however).All the others displayed that "processing" trait to some degree.
The surprise of the lot was the moderately priced Art Audio V-1 which paced and timed extraordinarily well for a valve based device.Enuf so, that I would like to hear their more ambitous offering.
The Groove sort of fell in the middle of the pack and presented its primary strengths in hifi qualities much more than I was expecting.I certainly didn't dislike it but rather I felt that it portrayed music in a manner very similar to and to my ears,no better than the Roksan Artaxerxes X/DS1.5(Caspian Reference)which I'd been using prior but at over twice the cost of the Roksan combo.Tipping the balance even further, the Roksan provides a firmer grip and rhythmic drive.

FWIW-I've been presented with an opportunity to play with the Phonocube's baby brother-the 47Labs Shigaraki Phono as well as the new Dynavector at the same time.Should be fun.

Best,
Ken

[This message was edited by Ken Lyon on SUNDAY 30 November 2003 at 01:48.]

Hi Ken

I had the Phonocube for a while, but it was picking up RF, not bad enough though. I sold it, should have kept it since I do own the Miyabi 47 and a Dynavector XV-1. I now run the Dynavector PH-100 Headamp through a Stageline phono. That PH-100 it one very interesting item, have you tried it.

Paul

RE:"I had the Phonocube for a while, but it was picking up RF..."

I had to be fairly careful about I/C and burndy routings but I'm in a semi-rural location and haven't been presented with any difficulties in using the Phonocube


"...since I do own the Miyabi 47 and a Dynavector XV-1."

Kewl. Those are amoungst my all time favorite cartridges. May I ask what arm you use? Neither of those hefty beasts were entirely comfortable on an Artemiz,even with the optional heavier #3 counterweights.
The Dynavector Karat Nova that I currently use came the closest to attaining the performance attributes of the DRT-XV1 and still being a suitable match for my present tonearm.


"That PH-100 it one very interesting item, have you tried it."
I've not had the pleasure of listening to the PH-100.Could you offer your insights?

best,
k

Hi Ken

I have and SME V on the SME 30/2, I have only been using the XV-1 on the SME because when I tried the Miyabi on the SME it didn't do it for me certainly not it the technical sence so musically it sucked. I got the Phonocube to see if it was a loading thing and that helped a lot, but what really made it work was the Graham 2.2 arm. I had this combo on a SME 20/2 so I could swap arm boards quickly for a different flavour.
I just picked up the SME 30 this summer and just sold the 20 to cover the cost of the 30. I also sold all of my other hifi to cover the cost of the table and would do it again. I think this table is quite special. Some folk here are not fond of the SME family sound or style of music making but I think the combo of SME and Dynavector really works.

Paul

I use an Orbe/smeV/helikon(52/135s)


I tried the Tom Evans at home for about a month.

Technically very good, but I was always aware I was listening to a box of electronics.A little "mechanical" sounding.
I prefer (and now use) a k-prefix/hicap. This has the ability to "disappear" sonically.

I would recomend the prefix/hicap very highly with Naim amplification

Laurie S

I cannot believe these comments. My experiences with the Groove for the last 3 years have been entirely the opposite to what's been said here. Although I find it has a huge amount of resolution by comparison to most other stages, I do not find it holds back, or separates the strands of the music. In fact I find it holds everything together where other stages pull things apart. I'm never aware I'm listening to a box of electronics - it just vanishes into the background. However, it is important to cable it up correctly using a Chord Anthem with (would you believe?) a Mayware 2phono-DIN adaptor. This is the best result into Naim electronics that I have found.

I have tried the PH100 and found that to be quite electronic - I prefer the P75 to it. I find the Naim stages to be very cohesive but lacking in resolution and they have low gain. The Naim solutions are excellent value for money until you start adding power supplies in my view.

I have not tried the 47Labs stage - this is one set of electronics with which I have not had the pleasure of playing.

Regards,
Frank.
All opinions are my own and do not reflect the opinion of any organisations I work for, except where this is stated explicitly.

Frank....have you lived with the groove driving Naim amps at home?

Laurie S

Laurie

Yes - into an 82/hicap/250, although that was an early Groove (they've been improved). I also have friends who used to use 52/scap/135s and have now got 552/300 and 552/500, both into SBLs. I am fairly well acquainted with their systems and I can only say the Groove breathes even better in those systems, as you'd expect. Actually, one of those friends has just upgraded to a Groove+, so that'll be interesting...

Regards,
Frank.
All opinions are my own and do not reflect the opinion of any organisations I work for, except where this is stated explicitly.

Clinical? Mechanical? Uninvolving ?

Are you sure you were not listening to an Nad PP1, not a Groove?

I, like one of Frank's references use a Groove / Anthem / Mayware / 52 / SC, and it lives and breathes in a totally organic way. In no way is it cranking clockwork machinery.

It is fascinating to see how the same thing can produce such completely poralised reactions?

DS

ITC - Various Artists - Schaffelfieber 1

Mike

The Microgroove+ is more like 60% of the Groove's performance if you can quantify such things. Actually, the MicroGroove+ comes across as a turbocharged Microgroove rather than a little brother to the Groove. There's a world of difference between the two. The interesting comparison for the completists would be a Pulsed Microgroove+ against a Groove. No idea what that would be like. (The Pulse is the new power supply for the Vibe and Microgrooves.)

Regards,
Frank.
All opinions are my own and do not reflect the opinion of any organisations I work for, except where this is stated explicitly.

The only explanation for such diametrically opposing, sincerely expressed, experiences with the same kit is: inconsistency of the kit itself, which to me suggests suspect quality control.....worrying

Laurie S

quote:

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The surprise of the lot was the moderately priced Art Audio V-1 which paced and timed extraordinarily well for a valve based device.

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I agree with Ken that the Vinyl 1 is an extraordinary phono stage. It combines startling dynamics (when appropriate!) with great subtlety and finesse and has a wonderful liquidity and richness. Its only real flaw is that it's a tiny bit less pace-y than the Linto or the Conrad Johnson EV1. I think the CJ deserves beter reknown in flat earth circles than it has; it delivers a large percentage of the Vinyl 1's superb sound at about half the price. It should be noted that the EV1 only offers 50 dB of gain though so it probably wouldn't be a good match for a very low output MC.

[This message was edited by Rob Doorack on WEDNESDAY 03 December 2003 at 20:30.]

The EV1 is the only Conrad - Johnson product I've had personal experience with, so my opinion on the line must be limited to that model. That's why I was careful to write "the CJ deserves beter [sic] reknown in flat earth circles" rather than a broader "CJ deserves..." There’s a story, perhaps apocryphal, that Julian Vereker was once asked what gear he’d own if Naim didn’t exist and he replied “Conrad – Johnson”.

quote:

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Originally posted by Rob Doorack:
The EV1 is the only Conrad - Johnson product I've had personal experience with, so my opinion on the line must be limited to that model. That's why I was careful to write "the CJ deserves beter [sic] reknown in flat earth circles" rather than a broader "CJ deserves..." There’s a story, perhaps apocryphal, that Julian Vereker was once asked what gear he’d own if Naim didn’t exist and he replied “Conrad – Johnson”.

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Gawd.. I hope Naim preamps do not sound like CJs.