Quad ESL 63
Posted by: nsy on 02 May 2003
Hello to all,
Has anyone tried using a Quad ESL 63 with a Naim amp, NAP140 in particular. I have a friend who has one and I'm trying to convince him to sell it to me. But, unfortunately or fortunately, he is still not giving it up. So, do you think it is worth while to pursue this speakers?
Thanks in advance.
Has anyone tried using a Quad ESL 63 with a Naim amp, NAP140 in particular. I have a friend who has one and I'm trying to convince him to sell it to me. But, unfortunately or fortunately, he is still not giving it up. So, do you think it is worth while to pursue this speakers?
Thanks in advance.
Posted on: 02 May 2003 by Onthlam
NSY,
GET THOSE SPEAKERS!!!! I used 63s for 18 years.
THE BEST!!! It will take tri amp 500s/DBLs to get to the musicality of the 82/250 with the Quads!!! The goal line is to have the scale that the DBLs do and the organics/tune the Quads do with lesser front end.
You can get Quads for a song these days.
Dial QS and D in Virginia. They have great deals on new and used Quads........
More info if you like. Onthlam@rcsis.com
Regards,
Marc
GET THOSE SPEAKERS!!!! I used 63s for 18 years.
THE BEST!!! It will take tri amp 500s/DBLs to get to the musicality of the 82/250 with the Quads!!! The goal line is to have the scale that the DBLs do and the organics/tune the Quads do with lesser front end.
You can get Quads for a song these days.
Dial QS and D in Virginia. They have great deals on new and used Quads........
More info if you like. Onthlam@rcsis.com
Regards,
Marc
Posted on: 02 May 2003 by Brendan Price
hello nsy,
I used to have a pair of Quad ESL 63 driven by NAP135's / 32.5 / CDS1 / LP12 aro armageddon. I still miss their midrange, but in the end I found them to be too limited in the bass. I went through a fair bit of effort trying subwoofers etc., but in the end I decided on the NBL's. I would however like to see Naim have another go at a full range electrostatic speaker.
I have seen some debate on the electrostatics/bass issue, but IMHO as a rough generalisation they can do orchestra/classical better than anything that I've heard, but dont do bass/drums as well as others.
But they are cheap considering how good they are
regards
Brendan
I used to have a pair of Quad ESL 63 driven by NAP135's / 32.5 / CDS1 / LP12 aro armageddon. I still miss their midrange, but in the end I found them to be too limited in the bass. I went through a fair bit of effort trying subwoofers etc., but in the end I decided on the NBL's. I would however like to see Naim have another go at a full range electrostatic speaker.
I have seen some debate on the electrostatics/bass issue, but IMHO as a rough generalisation they can do orchestra/classical better than anything that I've heard, but dont do bass/drums as well as others.
But they are cheap considering how good they are
regards
Brendan
Posted on: 04 May 2003 by J.N.
nsy
New Scotland Yard?
I've run my ESL 57's from a Nait 2 up to 135's with no problems.
New Scotland Yard?
I've run my ESL 57's from a Nait 2 up to 135's with no problems.
Posted on: 04 May 2003 by Dev B
quote:
Originally posted by J.N.:
_nsy_
New Scotland Yard?
I've run my ESL 57's from a Nait 2 up to 135's with no problems.
John/Marc, Did you get the output voltage altered on the amps or just run then normally?
regards
Dev
Posted on: 04 May 2003 by Onthlam
Dev,
I did for the 57s but not for the 63s.
I think overall, I was to paranoid to blow them up....
Regards,
Marc
I did for the 57s but not for the 63s.
I think overall, I was to paranoid to blow them up....
Regards,
Marc
Posted on: 05 May 2003 by nsy
Thanks for the replies.
Since I live in the Philippines, one of my concern also is humidity. Some people here are saying that electrostatics (any brand) is prone to arcing (did I spell that correctly?) due to humidity. Any comments?
Since I live in the Philippines, one of my concern also is humidity. Some people here are saying that electrostatics (any brand) is prone to arcing (did I spell that correctly?) due to humidity. Any comments?
Posted on: 05 May 2003 by Mick P
Chaps
The guy who sold me the Garrard 401 had it connected to a Quad system with ELS 63's.
I have to admit that they were great, the only downside being that they must be about 4ft out from the walls, which could be a problem.
They were a bit bass light but the musicality was very good.
I still prefer my Briks which are even cheaper.
Regards
Mick
The guy who sold me the Garrard 401 had it connected to a Quad system with ELS 63's.
I have to admit that they were great, the only downside being that they must be about 4ft out from the walls, which could be a problem.
They were a bit bass light but the musicality was very good.
I still prefer my Briks which are even cheaper.
Regards
Mick
Posted on: 05 May 2003 by Onthlam
Saiful Aj
GREAT question......
I will try to do this with as few words as possible.
82/Super/CDS2/XPS1/250/Quad 63s is more musical(organic,gets deeper) than what I have now.
There is much more to that statement. It has a bunch to do with specific aspects of setup that allow it acheive this high level.More on that, If you like..
52/Super/XPS1/CDS2/500/DBLs acheive 70% of the organics of the above system and a 100% more in scale and dynamics...
My goal is to have the signature of the QUADS and the scale of the DBLs.
This will be acheived by getting those silly xovers out!!!(Put aside what the 552 can do)...
THe QUADS do not have a xover........
By going active 3/500,this will bring me VERY close to that level where I can just listen to the music.......A 552 will only bring it that much closer.
I believe that there is NO speaker in the world that will EVER do what the QUADS do. It might be a limited range but, Oh MY!! Its CHILLING!!
Bottom line.
I will have most of what I had with the ability to have scale and huge dynamics.
I will never have the round earth or the purity the QUADS acheive.
Best regards,
Marc
GREAT question......
I will try to do this with as few words as possible.
82/Super/CDS2/XPS1/250/Quad 63s is more musical(organic,gets deeper) than what I have now.
There is much more to that statement. It has a bunch to do with specific aspects of setup that allow it acheive this high level.More on that, If you like..
52/Super/XPS1/CDS2/500/DBLs acheive 70% of the organics of the above system and a 100% more in scale and dynamics...
My goal is to have the signature of the QUADS and the scale of the DBLs.
This will be acheived by getting those silly xovers out!!!(Put aside what the 552 can do)...
THe QUADS do not have a xover........
By going active 3/500,this will bring me VERY close to that level where I can just listen to the music.......A 552 will only bring it that much closer.
I believe that there is NO speaker in the world that will EVER do what the QUADS do. It might be a limited range but, Oh MY!! Its CHILLING!!
Bottom line.
I will have most of what I had with the ability to have scale and huge dynamics.
I will never have the round earth or the purity the QUADS acheive.
Best regards,
Marc
Posted on: 05 May 2003 by David C
The question of bass weight with Quads is nearly always a function of room interaction, setup and the quality of the power amp driving them.
I have a pair of 988's which are very similar to the older 63's, I am currently moving house and am probably going to have to sell them as I can't find properties in the area that I need to move to that have large enough rooms. I have been auditioning a lot of speakers over the last few weeks and few have the bass weight and control of the Quads. DBL's would be my preferred option, I have yet to find an affordable pair
The relationship with the power amp is very important to the Quads. As is the space behind them, if they are close to a wall then their bass performance drops of rapdily further out into the room they have real power.
I have driven the quads with 250's and 135's. It might be worth getting naim to voltage limit the outputs on the power amp to protect the speakers. The newer quads have overload protection built in though.
David
I have a pair of 988's which are very similar to the older 63's, I am currently moving house and am probably going to have to sell them as I can't find properties in the area that I need to move to that have large enough rooms. I have been auditioning a lot of speakers over the last few weeks and few have the bass weight and control of the Quads. DBL's would be my preferred option, I have yet to find an affordable pair
The relationship with the power amp is very important to the Quads. As is the space behind them, if they are close to a wall then their bass performance drops of rapdily further out into the room they have real power.
I have driven the quads with 250's and 135's. It might be worth getting naim to voltage limit the outputs on the power amp to protect the speakers. The newer quads have overload protection built in though.
David
Posted on: 05 May 2003 by Martin Payne
quote:
Originally posted by Marc Newman:
THe QUADS do not have a xover........
Marc,
now that's just taking the piss!
The '63 has probably the most complex crossover ever seen in the whole of creation:-
Sorry to burst your balloon!
Martin
E-mail:- MartinPayne at Dial.Pipex.com
Posted on: 05 May 2003 by john rubberneck
Martin
That looks like a pwr/voltage muiltyplyer to me
Stuart
That looks like a pwr/voltage muiltyplyer to me
Stuart
Posted on: 05 May 2003 by Onthlam
Martin,
Really, there is no crossover in the 63s.
There is a power supply,protection circuit, and A time align network.
I have greatly simplified the complex workings.
But, no XOVER........
Marc
Really, there is no crossover in the 63s.
There is a power supply,protection circuit, and A time align network.
I have greatly simplified the complex workings.
But, no XOVER........
Marc
Posted on: 06 May 2003 by aht
To David C --
What, in your experience, is a "large enough room" for the Quad 988? My dealer is recommending them for my 12 x 13 foot space, but I'm a bit skeptical. And what distance from the back and side walls do you recommend? Any comments would be appreciated.
What, in your experience, is a "large enough room" for the Quad 988? My dealer is recommending them for my 12 x 13 foot space, but I'm a bit skeptical. And what distance from the back and side walls do you recommend? Any comments would be appreciated.
Posted on: 06 May 2003 by Paul Ranson
Strictly there is no crossover with the ESL63, there is the overvoltage protection in the lower row, the little 'aerial' is used to detect ionisation in the speaker and 'crowbar' the input (this is what damages Naim amps), EHT supply is in the middle right row, the upper chain of coils/caps is a delay line, used to give the illusion of a 'point source'.
It's a pretty cool loudspeaker, I've heard them go plenty loud and with no obvious dynamic limitation.
FWIW you can place them close to sidewalls, since there is little or no output to the sides, but they do need some distance to the rear.
Perhaps I'll go and buy a pair to add to my small collection of classic Linn speakers...
Paul
It's a pretty cool loudspeaker, I've heard them go plenty loud and with no obvious dynamic limitation.
FWIW you can place them close to sidewalls, since there is little or no output to the sides, but they do need some distance to the rear.
Perhaps I'll go and buy a pair to add to my small collection of classic Linn speakers...
Paul
Posted on: 06 May 2003 by Onthlam
Try this with your QUADS.You won't leave your house!
Have your dealer crossover the input on your amp at 40hz.This should be done at the input of the amp.This will give your amp huge amount of breathing room.
Buy one or two Sunfire True subs and a pair of ARCCI stands.
Put the 63s on the stands, the sub at the rear.if 2 subs, put each under the stand just behind the front of the each 63.
Connect each sub via an output from your preamp. Set the crossover on the sub(s) at the lowest point(38/40) and go to town!!!
With a 250 it sounded amazing......
I have used Quads within 24 inches of the rear wall. Works fine. Perfect world? min is 3 to 4 feet from the wall..
MArc
Have your dealer crossover the input on your amp at 40hz.This should be done at the input of the amp.This will give your amp huge amount of breathing room.
Buy one or two Sunfire True subs and a pair of ARCCI stands.
Put the 63s on the stands, the sub at the rear.if 2 subs, put each under the stand just behind the front of the each 63.
Connect each sub via an output from your preamp. Set the crossover on the sub(s) at the lowest point(38/40) and go to town!!!
With a 250 it sounded amazing......
I have used Quads within 24 inches of the rear wall. Works fine. Perfect world? min is 3 to 4 feet from the wall..
MArc
Posted on: 06 May 2003 by paul99
Marc,
I know exactly what you mean.
I tried a similar thing but not so fancy. I made a pair of 50 Hz (passive) cross-overs and used some aged Celestion 44s as bass units (with their cross-overs by-passed).
My ESL63s are about a metre from the wall. I stood the Celestions next to them.
I have never heard anything so good. The old 12 inch bass units in the Celestions can really pump out the bass, leaving the Quads to do what they do so well. (Boy did we play it loud, the cross-overs were hot.)
I imagine your set up sounded even, perhaps much, better.
Needless to say WAF was low and the set up got banned.
I need to find some way of installing a couple of sub-woofers somewhere she won't notice ...
Regards,
Paul99
I know exactly what you mean.
I tried a similar thing but not so fancy. I made a pair of 50 Hz (passive) cross-overs and used some aged Celestion 44s as bass units (with their cross-overs by-passed).
My ESL63s are about a metre from the wall. I stood the Celestions next to them.
I have never heard anything so good. The old 12 inch bass units in the Celestions can really pump out the bass, leaving the Quads to do what they do so well. (Boy did we play it loud, the cross-overs were hot.)
I imagine your set up sounded even, perhaps much, better.
Needless to say WAF was low and the set up got banned.
I need to find some way of installing a couple of sub-woofers somewhere she won't notice ...
Regards,
Paul99
Posted on: 06 May 2003 by john rubberneck
Varguas
I sold a 250 to a bloke who blew it up on his 63's, i think 135 o/p is the same just a psu each so from that i wouldn't,but there are lots of conflicting tales on this combo on this very fourm.
Stuart
I sold a 250 to a bloke who blew it up on his 63's, i think 135 o/p is the same just a psu each so from that i wouldn't,but there are lots of conflicting tales on this combo on this very fourm.
Stuart
Posted on: 06 May 2003 by Onthlam
I keep reading that NAIM amps cant drive QUADS???
I used the 250 for 13 years? Never had a problem. Did I shut down a couple of times? Yea. But not from the speaker load.
I was playing it loud and hard. High temp limit kicked in.
No harm though..........
I have heard(listened to) QUADS both 57s and 63s being used in rooms that were 10*10 and worked very well.
Not a perfect enviorment but, worked well.
10*12 IMHO is the minimum size room....
Regards,
Marc
I used the 250 for 13 years? Never had a problem. Did I shut down a couple of times? Yea. But not from the speaker load.
I was playing it loud and hard. High temp limit kicked in.
No harm though..........
I have heard(listened to) QUADS both 57s and 63s being used in rooms that were 10*10 and worked very well.
Not a perfect enviorment but, worked well.
10*12 IMHO is the minimum size room....
Regards,
Marc
Posted on: 06 May 2003 by Onthlam
quote:
Originally posted by paul99:
Marc,
I know exactly what you mean.
I tried a similar thing but not so fancy. I made a pair of 50 Hz (passive) cross-overs and used some aged Celestion 44s as bass units (with their cross-overs by-passed).
My ESL63s are about a metre from the wall. I stood the Celestions next to them.
I have never heard anything so good. The old 12 inch bass units in the Celestions can really pump out the bass, leaving the Quads to do what they do so well. (Boy did we play it loud, the cross-overs were hot.)
I imagine your set up sounded even, perhaps much, better.
Needless to say WAF was low and the set up got banned.
I need to find some way of installing a couple of sub-woofers somewhere she won't notice ...
Regards,
Paul99
Paul,
I feel your pain!!!!
Look at the Sunfire True sub. A bypolar design that can keep up with the 63s..
Its only a 10*10 cube or these days a 13*13 cube.A 2700 watt amp to boot all inside that little box!
You can pick one up cheep on Audiogone.
I just sold both of mine!!!!!!!!!!
Try it out if you can. Pro Musica can do the amp mod and anything else you might fancy...
Good luck JEDI......
Marc
Posted on: 07 May 2003 by Onthlam
V,
Well Done!!
Marc
Well Done!!
Marc
Posted on: 07 May 2003 by --duncan--
Didn't JV have a pair of 57's? Presumably he used Naim Amps…
250's (and Naits) get the blessing here: http://www.quadesl.org/Amplifiers/body_amplifiers.html
(reproduced on several other ESL websites)
BTW if anyone has a Naim/Quad system in southern England, I'd love to hear it sometime!
duncan
Email: djcritchley at hotmail.com
250's (and Naits) get the blessing here: http://www.quadesl.org/Amplifiers/body_amplifiers.html
(reproduced on several other ESL websites)
BTW if anyone has a Naim/Quad system in southern England, I'd love to hear it sometime!
duncan
Email: djcritchley at hotmail.com
Posted on: 07 May 2003 by Onthlam
Heres one for ya.
Ken Christionson, the gent who does many of the NAIM label recordings and owns Pro Musica...
Still and only uses QUAD 57s in his home....
Marc
Ken Christionson, the gent who does many of the NAIM label recordings and owns Pro Musica...
Still and only uses QUAD 57s in his home....
Marc
Posted on: 07 May 2003 by Onthlam
quote:
Originally posted by David C:
The question of bass weight with Quads is nearly always a function of room interaction, setup and the quality of the power amp driving them.
I have a pair of 988's which are very similar to the older 63's, I am currently moving house and am probably going to have to sell them as I can't find properties in the area that I need to move to that have large enough rooms. I have been auditioning a lot of speakers over the last few weeks and few have the bass weight and control of the Quads. DBL's would be my preferred option, I have yet to find an affordable pair
The relationship with the power amp is very important to the Quads. As is the space behind them, if they are close to a wall then their bass performance drops of rapdily further out into the room they have real power.
I have driven the quads with 250's and 135's. It might be worth getting naim to voltage limit the outputs on the power amp to protect the speakers. The newer quads have overload protection built in though.
David
David C,
If you have the ability to keep your 988s?
There is a way to bypass the protection in the 988s. In return you will have more of what you like from them. This makes it very important to lower the voltage in the amp.......
Big difference in the 63s also.
Marc
Posted on: 07 May 2003 by John G.
I've used my old Quads with a Nait, 110 and 140 with fine results. Here's a funky scan of my pair with stands supplied by Pro Musica.
Posted on: 07 May 2003 by Bob Edwards
All--
If memory serves I think Joe Petrik (of FEP fame!) used to run Quads off a Nait 1 and liked the combo very much.
Joe--correct me if I'm wrong.
Best Regards,
Bob Edwards
If memory serves I think Joe Petrik (of FEP fame!) used to run Quads off a Nait 1 and liked the combo very much.
Joe--correct me if I'm wrong.
Best Regards,
Bob Edwards