Broken Carlton.

George,

You're inspiring me to start a restoration of my own! I'm going to keep an eye out for something to kick it off.

When I lived in Bristol there were a lot of traditional Argos frames about. Some people in my club had Argos frames and/or used Argos for restoration/refnishing services.

At first I was confused as to why the el-cheapo chain store junk retalier would sell such nice bikes, but then I realised that the two Argos businesses were not the same!

Cheers,

Winky

Dear winky,

Please forgive my plebian post on your new thread.

Start with a sound Carlton frame and work outwards from this. They do work without fuss, and are surprisingly good, and can be repaired for not too much if something goes a bit wrong!

ATB from George

Vintage Road Bicycle 1940 Bianchi Folgorissima

For some real vintage bike porn, google this on a well-known auction site. Drool.

Yeah! But it is probably expensive, and does not quite fit wish my with to find something grand, and "made in England!"

I have just sprung for an old Campag 52/39 ultra lightweight front chain-set/pedal arm set, so I am not a total Chauvinist! That will save a few ounces!

ATB from George

quote:

Originally posted by GFFJ:
Yeah! But it is probably expensive, and does not quite fit wish my with to find something grand, and "made in England!"

I have just sprung for an old Campag 52/39 ultra lightweight front chain-set/pedal arm set, so I am not a total Chauvinist! That will save a few ounces!

ATB from George

Yes, expensive indeed. The Campy crankset should go well on the Carlton.

quote:

Vintage Road Bicycle 1940 Bianchi Folgorissima

Tried to post some images but it didn't work

But this blog has photos of it.

George, it's very enjoyable to read about your passion for your bikes. When I worked in a bike shop here I met many individuals with bikes of every sort and age, kept in great shape and preserved over the years. I'm a bit weary of all the new technology coming out. On a couple of bikes I'm still using retrofriction levers (Campy) and freewheels. It speaks to an age where parts lasted almost forever. Best wishes!

Dear winky,

Lovely pictures indeed in your link!

Dear Everyone,

I went to Bristol again this morning, as I was granted a half-day holiday - back at the grind-stone at lunchtime - to deliver the old roughed up original chrome plated fork in place of its replacement, which certainly would have been easier to prepare for the new enamel.

It will be totally stripped of chrome and enamelled rather than trying to peserve some of the chrome, which is not bound to last as long as the enamel should. I was advised and listened! So I said that we might as well loose the chroming on the frame's [rear] drops outs as well! Saves trouble, saves money, makes no functional difference, and may even enhance durability of the job!

Anyway I will collect the old machine on the 19th. And then build her up again over the weekend.

Best wishes to all here from George

quote:

Originally posted by GFFJ:


It will be totally stripped of chrome and enamelled rather than trying to peserve some of the chrome, which is not bound to last as long as the enamel should. I was advised and listened! So I said that we might as well lose the chroming on the frame's [rear] drops outs as well! Saves trouble, saves money, makes no functional difference, and may even enhance durability of the job!

You've received good advice. Chroming needs to be done very carefully as some of the chemicals used can lead to chemical embrittlement of the surface of the steel and ultimately stress-corrosion cracking. Don't sweat the loss of the chrome aesthetic. The bike will look great in any case.

Whoa!

Today the courier arrived and got my bike components ordered last week from Germany. Left the office a bit early and started to put new tubular tires to the trued rims and also added new Brooks B-17 saddle and saddle bag greased during the last few evenings. The bike turned out to look awesome if you ask me!



Have to still order new black leather bar tapes, so that I can change those and at the same time the NOS Campagnolo brake handles I have in stock. There is also still missing the original style saddle pin bolt I have to hunt down somewhere and also the new screws to replace the old ones of the bottle hanger holes. The latter I luckily already have in my messenger bag

I have a feeling we're going to have quite a few kms together this summer, me and this red beauty. Only when the sun is shining though..

Dear Mika!

Incredibly fine!

It will be the Red and Black Italian counter part for my Green and Brown English Carlton! They would look well next each other no doubt!

I hope mine looks as appealing in a photo when built up again!

And no doubt we will both really enjoy riding them, though it might sound a bit sad that my Carlton will once again become my daily commute bike, so it will not always run in the kindest weather! The Peugeot does not feel like a bike that "invites" me to enjoy it, though I am getting used to it. It is easily the best "second" bike that I have ever had.

Some nice old English rat trap pedals arrived on Tuesday, and they are much nicer than the alloy ones I had planned, and bearings are beautifully free running. In this respect much better than the new ones. The alloy ones will go on the Pug in time, but I put the fine second hand ones on it to try them out. Other new and old parts will arrive over the next couple of weeks before the frame comes back from the paint shop. What is certain is that the Carlton will be set up very much as I want. In reality the bike will become a unique fusion of personal requirements, ease of use [important for a daily bike], and still retaining a fair turn of speed for some fun and mayhem! It will certainly end up marginally lighter than before as well. This calm before the storm is certainly filled with anticipation, and almost wishing life had a fast forward control on it!

ATB from George

quote:

Originally posted by GFFJ:
They would look well next each other no doubt!

This is something that we might think a little further. I have always thought that it would be nice to visit UK sometime with a bike. Perhaps would actually need a friendly push to do that someday..

This is a nice idea. We do have some good hills round here. Not much really flat!

You would win a race, but that is hardly the point!

Let us not forget this idea!

ATB from George

Well I'm a big fellow and live in a flatland where the west has the sea and the east has almost only woods and fields out there, so don't know about anything about the hills

I have been thinking to change my gearing ratios to more human from the ones the bike has now, so..

Dear Mika,

The gearing on the Peugeot is 52/39 at the front and 14/24 at the back.

The Carlton is currently 52/42 at the front and 14/24 at the rear. But with the change of Carlton front chainset will make it the same as the Peugeot. This has enough flexibility for me to manage the hills round here. There are some big ones that no sane person would attempt uphill, but there are other ways round!

At the traffic lights on the flat roads in town I really only use the front changer. Top cog at the rear, and drop onto the "front" top cog as the conditions allow.

The current 42 is fractionally too high for starting quickly in traffic for me, whilst the 39 front cog on the Peugeot is ideal - I can keep close enough to the car in front to discourage any car following trying to overtake me. So this is the choice for the new front gears on the Carlton.

There is one hill I tackle from time to time which comes after nearly ten miles of some fairly steep climbs [and steep downhills as well] and an overall gain of 600 feet. This is one in four for perhaps 500 yards, and then at the end gets steeper for long enough to really kill momentum. About half the time I have get off on that one! But the new lower cog on the front may help in this, for me, significant place!

The cogs on your bike look seriously high geared. That would be painful round here! Perhaps you should get a matching back wheel with kinder rear cogs, and keep both options!

From here, if I go North [Shelsey, famous for the oldest car and motorbike Hill Climbs in the world], West [Herefordshire], or South by Southwest I have the Malvern Hills - some these various hills are horrible! East is flat [Vale of Evesham], and so are some Southerly routes [towards Tewkesbury]. There is a choice, but really I come from West of here, so I tend to go that way!

ATB from George

quote:

Originally posted by Mika K:

I have been thinking to change my gearing ratios to more human from the ones the bike has now, so..

But it looks so good with that "corn-cob" cluster at the back. Very much the gearing of the era. They made riders tougher back then .

True. That is why was thinking to find chainrings of a bit smaller size (naturally of the same era). The current setup is 54/45

Have one NOS Super Record 53 chainring in stock that tried already but the spider does not aesthetically match to the ring, so have to do a little more shopping at some point..

Thinking of gearing ...

I have found a Gipiemme front chain and arm set and, which is 172.5mm in the arm length, and 53/42. I have always wanted to experiement with slightly longer pedal arms!

And the extra torque this would give is 1.47 per cent, whilst the extra tooth would give almost one per cent higher gearing, so marginal to say the least. The smaller cog would be the same as now, but with the advantage of greater torque. It might be nice to experietn with this as compared to 39 on the small cog with the normal 170mm arm lengths ...

I want to experiment with this, and the additional torque may make the fractionally higher gearing more enjoyable! It might be fascinating to see how this arrangement works on the flat. Hills, and we have enough round here, will always be "down the cogs!"

We shall see!

ATB from George

Just had a wicked thought!

To what extend does the weight of a bike matter compared to the weight of the rider? Unlike with a race horse, the handicap weight [associated with the rider] is not "deadweight!"

Perhaps there is an advantage to being a hard little fly-weight!

ATB from George

quote:

Originally posted by GFFJ:
Just had a wicked thought!

To what extend does the weight of a bike matter compared to the weight of the rider? Unlike with a race horse, the handicap weight [associated with the rider] is not "deadweight!"

Perhaps there is an advantage to being a hard little fly-weight!

ATB from George

Am currently running a 13-29 cassette because I am a fat boy in the mountains, but the 53/13 gets a hammering on the flat and so I think I am about to switch to a 12-20 something for those days when I am not thinking about when to get off an push. I had to laugh when I was asked whether I wanted the titanium lock ring instead of steel to save some weight. As if a few grams were going to help ...

Was in a Bianchi store yesterday and they had a drool worthy selection of steel bikes from the 70s on display.

quote:

Originally posted by GFFJ:
Thinking of gearing ...

I have found a Gipiemme front chain and arm set and, which is 172.5mm in the arm length, and 53/42. I have always wanted to experiement with slightly longer pedal arms!

And the extra torque this would give is 1.47 per cent, whilst the extra tooth would give almost one per cent higher gearing, so marginal to say the least. The smaller cog would be the same as now, but with the advantage of greater torque. It might be nice to experietn with this as compared to 39 on the small cog with the normal 170mm arm lengths ...

I want to experiment with this, and the additional torque may make the fractionally higher gearing more enjoyable! It might be fascinating to see how this arrangement works on the flat. Hills, and we have enough round here, will always be "down the cogs!"

We shall see!

ATB from George

George, it will be interesting to see how you like it. I read the Badger's (Bernard Hinault) book on bicycle fit, and was intrigued by the idea of moving to 172.5 mm. I tend to torque the cranks at a lower rpm rather than spinning, and it has served me well in the local 'donut' rides here in Toronto. Previously I rode mountain bikes in the Alberta Rockies, and liked the longer cranks especially on the relatively flat fire roads. Enjoy!

I got a used derailleur today, which is splendid. Not a famous name - Maeda, Japan - which now I have stripped it down and cleaned is good as new.

It has a strong spring and the pins are all nice and tight, so it is nicely parallel. The existing Shimano has a significant twist, though it still works except for being a bit unwilling to find top cog on times. The new one has a very nice strong spring, so no doubt this problem will be solved.

Also got a Campagnola rear QR spindle, which is also in nice condition. I'll rebuild the hub again with this, and see if I can curb the remaining slight roughness in it. Both came off an old Houldsworth.

Dear Hawk,

When I am in no rush I do tend to roll round on very top cog, pedaling quite slowly. I suspect that the slightly longer arms may make for an even more relaxed ride under these conditions. It is an experiment, and not one that is too expensive to try out for myself.

It will do nothing for cornering whilst pedaling, but this can be worked round in practice. In any case this not a strong point on the bike!

ATB from George

quote:

Originally posted by GFFJ:
Thinking of gearing ...

I have found a Gipiemme front chain and arm set and, which is 172.5mm in the arm length, and 53/42. I have always wanted to experiement with slightly longer pedal arms!

And the extra torque this would give is 1.47 per cent, whilst the extra tooth would give almost one per cent higher gearing, so marginal to say the least. The smaller cog would be the same as now, but with the advantage of greater torque. It might be nice to experietn with this as compared to 39 on the small cog with the normal 170mm arm lengths ...

I want to experiment with this, and the additional torque may make the fractionally higher gearing more enjoyable! It might be fascinating to see how this arrangement works on the flat. Hills, and we have enough round here, will always be "down the cogs!"

We shall see!

ATB from George

George

The 172.5mm cranks will allow you to produce 1.47% more torque, however the increase in radius of the chainring will result in the chainring producing 1.9% less tension in the chain. The 172.5/53 combination will require a greater force on the pedals to equal the chain tension produced by the 170/52



Mika

Very nice bike.

Dear fatcat,

So effectively this will require slightly greater work on top gear, but top is not so long as to be faintly problematic.

It did do the maths myself and concluded that the figures did not look frightening! It is an experiment to do at least.

I have built up the rear wheel with the Campag QR spindle. What lovely parts to set up - so easy to adjust with precision and certain feel that it is right. What ever I did with the old cones would stay right for long. The wheel has never run that freely! It is in the Peugeot frame at the moment for running up.

ATB from George

The frustration of waiting is ... well ... frustrating!

Anticipation is not really the best part in my experience.

But I have burnished the wheels till they glow like new as they did last year after I really set about them. Loads of Brasso and elbow grease. They came up very quickly this time.

The handlebar and stem is already pristine, and the front and back derailleurs clean like new.

The only parts to do now are the brake calipers. Tomorrow for them!

The re-assembly will be very quick except for one thing. New chain, and for this I will go to a proper bike shop so as to get the length perfectly sorted.

For the while and probably a long while till the existing saddle wears out, I have given up on the idea of trying to fit a Brookes. The current one may not look quite posh, but it works perfectly well. This also means that I shall revert to the original plan of taping the bar with French cotton tape rather than the posh Brookes tape to match the saddle. As I say that is for the future. The function will not be altered in any way! Also some new brake blocks and gear cables are necessary, though the brake cables are only a few months old, so are fine.

Now where is that fast forward button for ten days!

ATB from George

PS: Dear fatcat,

I can see that you would mistake my meaning regarding 53 teeth with 172.5 mm pedal arms and 52 with 170 mm ... I had worked that out, but wrongly typed,

"And the extra torque this would give is 1.47 per cent, whilst the extra tooth would give almost one per cent higher gearing, ..."

I was intending to write, "almost two per cent higher gearing, ..." - Doh! I doubt if the net effect will be so different in terms of effort or comfortable cruising speed, as I am no professional and am not a "high cadence" merchant! It either will be more comfortable or not. In any case worth the experiment.

I like to maintain a good rate of progress in the longer term, often on a higher gear than any properly trained rider would - rather than rush into a sweat! When I was a kid, I was really quite good [though totally non-competitive] at cross-country running and developed a rather long completely sprung stride, which I could maintain for ages so as to make good results and not be completely knackered at the end. I was the cause of considerable frustration to two athletics masters, who could not understand why I would not sprint at the end to gain places! I happened to think it was good enough to have made good time! I was much less tall and lighter than the others! On being severely and frequently chided at the end of races, I used to mutter obscenities at them under my breath and carry on to the end without alteration of tempo! At least I was not so "pooped" as to slow down at the end. I was always being selected to run, so I had to have been doing something right! When I changed school at thirteen, I kept quiet about any interest in running! The athletics masters there were much nastier ...